[Primer] R/G Lands

[Chatto]

(...)If you were playing black, you could add entomb over gamble and run a reanimate package out of the board. I have seen people try that.

That being said, you could splash black for volraths stronghold and any number of utility creatures. If you grabbed stronghold and a land that lets you sacrifice like high market, you would be able to achieve close to what you are talking about.

A few years ago (pre-Thespian's Stage) I ran a small GSZ package (Veteran Explorer, E-Witness, Titan, etc.) in lands and did modestly well. The win condition was Scapeshift though which is probably outside the scope of this thread. I don't remember if I ran black for Stronghold or not, but it would have made sense.

He was merely recalling something he played years ago, offering an example. I think Admiral_Arzar (and everyone else for that matter) is well aware of our superior Wincon

[Crimhead]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=85807

Another top8 for Lands!

Only two K-grips in the siepsde, but three Seals of Primordium. Is Thai texk against Blood Moon? Play it off a dual land and activate it later without needed a Mox or Forest? Otherwise an interesting list. Karakas main, along with Quarter, Bog, and Canopy. Running only three fetches, one Ticket, and there PFires to make space I guess. Only the four Spheres, plus a Chalice and a Needle.

[Tokugawa]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=85807

Another top8 for Lands!

Only two K-grips in the siepsde, but three Seals of Primordium. Is Thai texk against Blood Moon? Play it off a dual land and activate it later without needed a Mox or Forest? Otherwise an interesting list. Karakas main, along with Quarter, Bog, and Canopy. Running only three fetches, one Ticket, and there PFires to make space I guess. Only the four Spheres, plus a Chalice and a Needle.

Seals are for ambushing Omniscience.

[Dice_Box]

It also combos well with Manabond if you run them together.

[Darkgobs]

Seals are for ambushing Omniscience.

Why not. But still, it seems weaker than Krosan Grip to me, even against Omniscience: If they S&T into Omni, it doesn't matter at all that you have Krosan in hand or Seal in play via S&T: both are not counterable, but at least, K-Grip has split second which can avoid the guys to go for the full instant combo via Wish into Firemind's Foresight for example. And against Miracle, K-Grip is just much better, especially because a 2CMC is easily counterable.
I mean, GG to this guys for the sweet achievement, but definetly, you guys shouldn't go for Primeordial Seal if you don't allready play the K-Grip playset (imho)!

[Rampart]

Why not. But still, it seems weaker than Krosan Grip to me, even against Omniscience: If they S&T into Omni, it doesn't matter at all that you have Krosan in hand or Seal in play via S&T: both are not counterable, but at least, K-Grip has split second which can avoid the guys to go for the full instant combo via Wish into Firemind's Foresight for example. And against Miracle, K-Grip is just much better, especially because a 2CMC is easily counterable.
I mean, GG to this guys for the sweet achievement, but definetly, you guys shouldn't go for Primeordial Seal if you don't allready play the K-Grip playset (imho)!

In the omniscience match-up you need to hold your lands up for that for Grip AKA not using ports so Grip and Ports conflict post sideboard a lot of the time.

Seals are worse in the Miracle match up for sure but if you practice the match-up you can play under the Counter Top lock reasonably well if you can't stick a Seal early.

Seal is fine if you want a proactive take on the match ups - I don't think i would run them, maybe one misers copy isn't a bad idea.

[Crimhead]

Thanks guys!

[Chatto]

Came across this MU between Takano Shigeki(MUD Post) and Takahashi Tetsuhiro(Lands), the link taking you to the first game of three.

And even better: this MU between Matsuo Yoshiyuki(Lands) and Saitou Nobuo(Omni-Tell) (again, link to first game). I personally think it's SnT splashing Omniscience, though.


Enjoy.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Haha, there is a MUD player at my local shop and every single game feels like it goes like that first video.

[Varal]

Why not. But still, it seems weaker than Krosan Grip to me, even against Omniscience: If they S&T into Omni, it doesn't matter at all that you have Krosan in hand or Seal in play via S&T: both are not counterable, but at least, K-Grip has split second which can avoid the guys to go for the full instant combo via Wish into Firemind's Foresight for example. And against Miracle, K-Grip is just much better, especially because a 2CMC is easily counterable.
I mean, GG to this guys for the sweet achievement, but definetly, you guys shouldn't go for Primeordial Seal if you don't allready play the K-Grip playset (imho)!

If you've some Spheres they'll have a really tough time to combo at instant speed. Sure they can hardcast Emrakul but Krosan Grip doesn't prevent it either and luckily, the deck can frequently survive against an hardcast Emrakul especially if you destroy Omniscience.

[Darkgobs]

If you've some Spheres they'll have a really tough time to combo at instant speed. Sure they can hardcast Emrakul but Krosan Grip doesn't prevent it either and luckily, the deck can frequently survive against an hardcast Emrakul especially if you destroy Omniscience.

So... aren't we saying the same thing? Against instand speed combo with Omniscience, K-Grip is better than Seal. Against Emrakul hardcasted it almost doesn't change anything (K-Grip still beeing better, cuz they can Trickbind your Seal, while they can't do anything against K-Grip). So what's your point exactly?

[lavafrogg]

Is anyone else finding that this decks combo matchup is not as nearly bad as it should be? Reanimator/Elves is a favorable matchup, storm seems to be a straight race and show and tell is also just a race most of the time. They have to have the counter for the gamble/crop rotation/sphere and also hope we don't draw/loan into the combo naturally while also finding their own combo pieces.

I am not saying Omnitel/storm are easy matchups by any means, I just thought they would be harder pre and post board.

That being said I would play more manabonds and the 4th depths if I thought combo was a heavy presence and I still wanted to play lands.

[Dice_Box]

I am a fucking lucksack against Storm. Since they have only bounce spells and no counters, you can drop a lock early and force them to dig in a manner that is preferable to your game plan then theirs. (They are looking for answers and shuffling away kills) Against anything with counters who knows what the hell they are doing though, I find they cause issues. Unless your looking at a first turn Lock piece or dropping something though SnT they have an advantage on you. Even then, they have an advantage on you.

I feel like the price of Tabernacle really does a kind of dual edged effect on the deck. Only the really dedicated play this and only the really dedicated test against it. The price if the Tabernacle keeps the player count low and as an effect keeps our "Unknown" factor high. At the end of the day though, this I feel is changing as we keep doing well.

[Darkgobs]

Is anyone else finding that this decks combo matchup is not as nearly bad as it should be? Reanimator/Elves is a favorable matchup, storm seems to be a straight race and show and tell is also just a race most of the time. They have to have the counter for the gamble/crop rotation/sphere and also hope we don't draw/loan into the combo naturally while also finding their own combo pieces.

I am not saying Omnitel/storm are easy matchups by any means, I just thought they would be harder pre and post board.

That being said I would play more manabonds and the 4th depths if I thought combo was a heavy presence and I still wanted to play lands.

I'm glad that someone else thinks that combo match-ups aren't that impossible for us.
I'd say that Reanimator is favored, but their countermagic can fuck our Crop-into-Bojuka plan up. Karakas (especially) and Maze are a true blessing, but Tidespout Tyrant can caught you off-guard. Overall, I'd say it's not favoured; it's balanced.
Against elfe, the Crop-into-Tabernacle is the win-plan, but on the other hand, they run the only card that directly counter Tabernacle : Gaea's Cradle. They also have a lot of mana-producer elves, which, if in play, can make the Tabernacle not that amazing. Chasm can also be overpassed by Deathrite with multiples activations. It depends also a lot of the list their playing: with or without Scavenging Ooze? You have to be quick, because they can kill you T3-T4 quite often. As you said, it's a race.
Against storm.deck and OmniTell, pre-board it's about winning the dice / comboing really quick. Post-board, it's about taxing effect followed by asap-combo. Sphere T1-T2 is the best play you can pull (ok, T1 manabound into full combo + enough mana for T1 activation is nice too ).

Overall, I would say the most important things against combo are:
1) Reconize what you're playing against as quickly as possible, so that you can react approprietly (rush the combo plan, or mana-lock them until you can do it).
2) G2-G3 or if you know what you're up against G1, keep a good hand. Aggressives mulligan are really vital and often brought me 5-cards winning hand. Again, Sphere of Resistance are OP against almost all combo decks.

Combo (except Dredge) are really negative to fair Match-Ups, depending a lot of the combo faced and our openning hand. So the legends saying that Land is a bye for all combo decks is totally wrong. But let's be honest; it's not in our favor, and imho by no means positive (but maybe Elfe indeed ?).

[Chatto]

I don't like to play Combo, but with six Sphere-effects I would say it's a bit better.

@ Dice_Box: I see where you going at, but I have to comment: as we know, Tabernacle is on the reserve list, and will always be very very pricy. That being said, only us dedicated few will invest or have invested. Even if we/ the deck will perform above average there will still be very few players of this deck. In a fair meta we will always have chance, because noone will dedicate slots in the SB, unless it's in their colors/ there will be a new sort Tabernacle printed (which will never happen)

[Darkgobs]

@ Dice_Box: I see where you going at, but I have to comment: as we know, Tabernacle is on the reserve list, and will always be very very pricy. That being said, only us dedicated few will invest or have invested. Even if we/ the deck will perform above average there will still be very few players of this deck. In a fair meta we will always have chance, because noone will dedicate slots in the SB, unless it's in their colors/ there will be a new sort Tabernacle printed (which will never happen)

Agree. But at the same time, we are not playing 3 Underground Sea... which is about the same amount of money as 1 Tabernacle is. If players have money to buy a BUG or an ANT, they also have money for land. The only thing beeing that Tabernacle is indeed only played in Land.deck.

[lavafrogg]

Anyone have luck with multiple coursers against grave hate? Helps you cut through the crap and always know when business is on the top of your library?

[Alexeezay]

Played this sb in a small tournament yesterday:

1 Bojuka Bog (Karakas main)
2 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Choke
2 Trinisphere
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip

Maindeck was David Long's list -1 Crop Rot. +1 Ghost Quarter.
4 Rounds: beat Jund, Grixis Control, Show and Tell, Burn.

Got to fiddle around with Titania a bit...and she's not that great unfortunately. I played vs decks like Grixis or Canadian & she folds to Lightning Bolt.
The only time you can savely play her is with a Karakas up. I mean when you have a fetchland to get back it's obviously still awesome since you get the 5/5 token trigger no matter what. Note: that is when they don't respond to Titania's first trigger which most people WILL forget.
But...I think I'd rather have P.Titan or Garruk Primal Hunter vs Miracles.
Maybe 1 Boseiju / 1 Primeval Titan in that slot. Otherwise this sideboard feels very nice, Trinisphere is great.

[Crimhead]

Agree. But at the same time, we are not playing 3 Underground Sea... which is about the same amount of money as 1 Tabernacle is. If players have money to buy a BUG or an ANT, they also have money for land. The only thing beeing that Tabernacle is indeed only played in Land.deck.

Yes, but lots of players have U.Seas they bought for $15.00. Seas are abundant and can readily be gotten locally. One can even use traders or store credit at a LGS. The deck also has a narrow appeal, so not everybody wants to play it in the first place.

We are very lucky, though. People may be wanting to test the match, to prepare that way, but they are going to hard pressed to alter their card and/or deck selection based on a match they are likely to dodge. No matter how strong or well positioned the deck is, we will never be public enemy number one.

I'm sleaving up r/g for the first time this afternoon, wish me luck!

[Lio]

Hi guys, I have all pieces for the Lands decks except the Tabernacle. Luckily I've sold my playset of U.Sea so I can buy one. I've been playing HexmageDepths until now and I love killing with 20/20 as well as ruining my opponent's game (my 2nd deck is DnT). Lands fuses both parts together. Question is: is the lands deck worth playing in meta full of delvers, stoneblades, lot of miracles and significant amount of combo decks? What is the plan against Miracles and how is the matchup? It's a deck I am most concerned with.