I've had an actual Naya list scoped out for a while...I've played zero games with it however because I fear its just terrible:Originally Posted by Bobmans
4x Windswept Heath
2x Savannah
2x Taiga
1x Plateau
1x Forest
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Karakas
1x Horizon Canopy
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Tranquil Thicket
1x Secluded Steppe
4x Wasteland
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Dark Depths
1x Maze of Ith
4x Mox Diamond
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Life from the Loam
2x Sylvan Library
3x Punishing Fire
2x Council's Judgment
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Tarmogoyf
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Courser of Kruphix
SB 3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB 2x Ethersworn Canonist
SB 2x Containment Priest
SB 1x Gaddock Teeg
SB 1x Aven Mindcensor
SB 1x Phyrexian Revoker
SB 1x Krosan Grip
SB 1x Pyroclasm
SB 1x Armageddon
SB 1x Tormod's Crypt
@Bobmans
It's not like the very first line of the description explains why I choose to call it that, right?
If you want to be a pedant I suggest you try a little harder.
Interesting list, a friend of mine was questioning Naya Zoo being any good. We ended agreeing that it would be a more of a hatebear.dec for it to work. This list looks good. Love Courser in there.
The only thing i question is Tarmogoyf not being underwhelming, replacing him with 1/2 sfm and a Jitte plus another equip might be good aswell. Jitte gives extra board control.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I mean, as a Naya player at heart I think this looks awesome, but I seriously question its strategic viability. There's no reason you can't just swap Black in for Red and play Bob, Decay etc. while having the same hatebear plan. Furthermore by playing Chalice you are compromising your ability to play Blasts, which are quite good right now and one of the payoffs of playing Red.
I have to say, it is satisfying to feast on all of these Grixis Delver/Control decks. Ever so satisfying.
Was casually reading the thread, saw that someone was thinking of cards to use vs DnT, and tried Darkblast. Figured I'd list a few more...
Darkblast
Toxic Deluge
Massacre
Virtue's Ruin
Dread of Night
Engineered Plague
Pyroclasm
Anger of the Gods
Firespout
Volcanic Fallout
Sulfur Elemental
Orzhov Pontiff
Bane of the Living
Infused Arrows
Engineered Explosives
Infest
Yes, a lot of those suck. Might give you some ideas though.
And Infest is strictly inferior to Drown in Sorrow.
Of the suggested cards, my SB contains 2x Toxic Deluge and 2x Pyroclasm and sometimes 1x Darkblast. 4 slots is really the most you want to devote to board wipes.
If I were to add anything from that list I'd add Dread of Night but that card is really narrow.
I've been kind of considering Null Rod/stony silence. It turns off Vials and equipment as well as some SB cards from them. it also is splash hate against Miracles and I guess MUD.
The problem is it turns off mox diamonds which matters in the latter two matchups.
Last edited by apocolyps6; 06-08-2015 at 04:25 PM.
Currently finishing the final tweaks to the list to GP Lille.
Land (25)
2x Barren Moor
1x Bayou
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
2x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Savannah
2x Scrubland
2x Taiga
2x Tranquil Thicket
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
Creature (11)
3x Dark Confidant
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Scavenging Ooze
Sorcery (7)
3x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Life from the Loam
1x Toxic Deluge
Instant (6)
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
Artifact (8)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library
Planeswalker (2)
2x Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard (15)
1x Choke
3x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Golgari Charm
1x Krosan Grip
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Slaughter Games
1x Sulfur Elemental
1x Toxic Deluge
Currently only messing around with the 25th land(Cavern of Souls), the 11th Creature(DRS) and the 15th SB slot(Sulfur Elemental).
The 2nd DRS really helps in the combo mathcups for the extra ramp/grave control, and also gives an additional option for the turn 1 play. My options here is to go for a goyf for the extra pressure, qasali for the extra utility or bob for the extra card draw.
Cavern of Souls was put in recently due to the 2nd DRS and to better fight miracles(Still not convinced). My options here are way to many to list. I know I don't want a tap land, although a nantuko monastery is great not tapping for colored is an issue. Canopy is meh. Cabal Pit is awkward. I just don't know.
The Sulfur elemental was put in for the mentor matchups, not sure if its great, not much testing with him lately. The other options in my mind are the second Teeg or the Second Charm.
As always, comments and help are appreciated.
How is Slaughter Games testing?
For your "extra" land slot you can always just play a Verdant Catacombs. I think having better access to duals at the cost of some marginal utility is fine. Cavern is definitely quite strong against Miracles, but it will produce only colorless mana a lot of the time.
Slaughter Games has been great.
Brought it against miracles in the GPT and against omnitell in testing and always performed... That is the matchups that I felt having the 2 DRS was also great because of the extra t1 plays and many t2 Slaughter Games happen
+1ing the 5 fetch suggestion. I went up to 5 a while ago and have not looked back. But if you can spare it, it makes sense to cut a dual and continue to play the same number of fancy lands. Another Grove would not be the worst.. but it all depends on what you want that slot to be for.
4-0ed last night against TES (2-0) Miracles (2-1) Infect (2-0) and Grixis delver (2-0) and choke over-performed every time I drew it.
With Miracles and Omni being the two best decks atm, and considering I/we would actually like another card for the matchups I'm gonna be playing 2 choke for a while.
How do you guys usually SB vs RUG Delver? I usually only bring Toxic Deluge, golgari charm and 0-1 Choke(I think it is too slow), but I recently watched a match in which the guy brought 2 Leylines. Does any thing think this is correct? I can see it being good but usually just a clunky mid game draw
I just take out G. Teeg and bring in Deluge (I brought in Thrun too when I used to play him). I don't think you want Leyline against them. In your opener, the effect is quite potent against Goose, but drawing one seems terrible. Plus, we still have answers to Goose in the form of Liliana and Ooze. I would also stay away from Choke, it is too slow against RUG. I can't imagine what you're taking out for either of these cards that could be worse.
My current SB plan is -1 G. Teeg, -1 Karakas +1 Toxic Deluge +1 Golgari Charm. The choke and leyline were suggested by a fellow player but I agree with you, I believe they are too slow. What are your thoughts on Golgari Charm in the matchup?
Golgari Charm seems like it would be very crappy against RUG Delver, at least as a one of. In the early game it's nice, but seeing as it's a 1-of you want it to be a good top deck incase you don't see it early on. It looks like a really bad topdeck, and I'd sooner play the Choke as if that thing resolves it should be game. On the other hand, it's probably a powerhouse against UR Delver and very good against anyone playing TNN.
All of this is spot on. Including the views on Leyline of the Void and Choke.
With regards to Golgari Charm, it's actually not a terrible card, Kanti. It can take a while for Mongeese to get online and Delver doesn't enter the battlefield as a 3/2, so Golgari Charm can actually snipe both of them semi-reliably. It also can beat out a Bolt or let you safely block with multiple weenies to take out a pumped Mongoose or Tarmogoyf.
That being said, given what the deck in question looks like, Golgari Charm is not worth bringing in out of the board. If Qasali Pridemage were in the maindeck or something like that, Golgari Charm would easily be the next card to bring in out of the board. But the fact of the matter is that Golgari Charm just isn't as good as the cards already present in the maindeck. Even “colorless” lands have a higher priority in the match-up.
Thanks for the feedback. I was actually with heavy doubts in what to take out if I wanted the Charm. And Charm usually only works early game so...
About the matchup against Grixis Control, I feel I have a couple cards to bring in, but not that much to bring out. The Match seems favorable(really low amount of testing ~10 games) but we surely want the extra sweeper. my options to bring in are:
+1 toxic deluge +1 golgari charm +2 choke, I think the deluge and the chokes are a given and the charm is effective, however I am not sure what to take out....
The only somewhat clear cut seems Liliana and that just dont feel right.
Last couple of games I tried -2 Liliana -1 Decay -1 Maze of Ith(He had nemesis, not Angler or Tasigur)
Thoughts?
Does anyone have access to niklas list from Prague Eternal?
Need those techs!
It will probably be posted on PragueEternal.com soon. From what he told me, it only had 2 Life from the Loam.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
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