What is the most popular list that people are playing now? I'm actually playing the tabernacle main along with 2 O.stone. Are most people playing the natural orders in the SB now? Or 2 main and 2 SB? You are playing Terasodon main? Is that necessary with Ugin?Originally Posted by mykatdied
It's funny. The last 3 matches I've played online people just auto-scoop when Ugin hits the table. Last guy had Jace, True-name nemesis, batterskull and sword of F&I out against me. I drop Ugin and he concedes on the spot. The card is almost broken.
Hi guys!
I'm new here, and first of all I want to thank you all for sharing your ideas, they gave me a lot of help to build this incredible deck.
I want to share my list: I didn't try it in some tournaments, just a few plays on cockatrice.
3 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Explore
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pithing Needle
3 Expedition Map
4 Primeval Titan
1 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Crop Rotation
1 Show and Tell
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Natural Order
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Scroll Rack
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Sacred Ground
SB: 1 Elderscale Wurm
SB: 1 Obstinate Baloth
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
first of all, the choice between UG and WG. I personally think blue is better: ramping mana is good of course, but control the game and our drawing it's better. If force of will and brainstorm are the most played cards in legacy, there is a reason. It depends of course also on your local meta: D&T, MUD and slow deck are good for WG option, but combo and fast deck aren't. I choose WG for economic reason.
I'm gonna discuss not the core deck, that is well know, but the "strange" choices that I made.
-3 Vesuva: absolutely. Ok, in a deck with 25 lands (more or less) we have a lot of things to copy, but too many time I had in my hand 2 vesuva without anything good to copy (I felt sooo sad to copy my opponent's land or a savannah XD). It's like the needle....it a MUST card, but sometimes it's not necessary.
-no ulamog: I think our main problem is to be protected until 5-6th turn. At that moment, we can cast the "finisher" or something like this. What can we target with Ulamog? Board will be full of choice....I think is better to have a mass removal (ugin, all is dust, explosives, oblivion stone) than e single one. Planeswalker? Better have a needle, probably when we cast Ulamog is too late. Eldrazi's abilities don't work with S&T, so it's "useless" to make Ulamog enter with it. It is indestructible, but they can sword it. I really prefer Wurmcoil.....we can cast it easily, helping us in the early game. Against many deck it's a pain in the ass for them.
-scroll rack, mirri's guile: basically, we need (at least) 4 slost for "brainstom/sensei-like" effects. Mirri's is a personal choice: I like the card, I like that an opponent's needle naming sensei can be useless against me, I like to have the possibility on second turn to look at my library.....Scroll rack it's our brainstorm: removing from hand useless card for new ones it's always good :D
-Knight of the Reliquary: it's a recent idea, I have to test it better. Like wurmcoil, it can really help us at the beginning, and it's a "free" crop rotation (just in case of emergency, since we don't have a lot of forest to sacrifice. But in opponent's eot, an uncounterable crop rotation can be very good, titan can enter very easily in our tour).
-tabernacle: yes, main, no side. If it's useless, probably our opponent has a deck that send us directly to g2. Omnishow, fast combo, burn. Or, if it's useless, we have no problem to win: miracle, lands. But with every other decks, it REALLY makes the difference between lose and win, I don't see a reason to give to opponent a game just for one slot.
-bojuka: as tabernacle. And this land gives us also mana, so my thoughts on it are stronger than the ones on tabernacle.
soon discussion on sideboard, I have to go now XD.
ps: sorry for my english, I know it's not perfect.
You think that the U version has better draw power? Is that because of brainstorm? Ancient stirrings digs 5 deep, not 3 and if you have no way to shuffle you never get locked from it. Both lists have top, so that is a moot point.
Green ramps harder and the white can give you the correct prison pieces to control the flow of spells against combo if that's the direction you need to lean. The main upside to U in the control aspect is force of will for decks like belcher and oops. But those decks CAN beat a force of will hand so that isn't even really an answer.
I began running 1 terastodon in the main with 2 in the side to combat omnitell. It just gives me an answer that comes down off show and tell with an enters the battlefield trigger so I can hopefully not die and hit omniscience, or if I have krosan grip I get to blow up omniscience before they can do anything. On the flip side it is a decent NO target for miracles and other decks of the like. If i am in a match up where I board in RiP, triple vindicate!
Ugin really is disgusting. I have never lost if he resolves.
I like your ideas! I like the idea of dipping into Bant in the current meta. Fighting Omnitell reliably, has proven difficult if we are only UG. Personally I am testing high counts of meddling Mage, Krosan Grip, Teeg along side the counter suite in a Bant configuration.
I also like returning to high vesuva in high numbers. This number changes how the deck behaves naturally. So in adding more, you've increased our clock, and then made Ugin mana available, wins faster, with minimal increased exposure to wasteland - which I think is correct for the current meta. For me it's Bant to splash Mage & Teeg, with more vesuva/candles to win 'faster' and lean on Ugin to shore up the fair MUs be he is amazing.
I don't think scroll rack/guile is strong enough, nor immediately impactful. I prefer ponder and sylvan library.. Mostly because they bring me tops.
I also like the variety of threats without going too crazy w GSZ, it might be th Best way to fight today's meta. Though I hope the rest of the meta can fight omni 'for us'...
Hi Aaron!
You are right about stirrings, but I think they are good only in a list with candelabra. What can I need to take with it? Lands? I have already crop and maps. Eldrazi? eye of ugin. I think that with stirring the benefits are less than disadvantages: you can waste precious titans, oracle, S&T, order. Honestly, I would prefer to dig only 3, but having the possibility to fix my hand and waste nothing. With candelabra you can risk this, without them colored cards are more important than colorless in this list.
and 4/3 S&T are an easy victory condition for every deck, as omnishow teaches us (sadly :( )
sylvan is really good too! Maybe also better, since with glimmerpost we are high in hp (sometimes, if opponent is not threatening us too quickly) and we can pay for extra cards. But it can't fix your hand removing useless cards......
I will admit I am not a U mage by any means. The only U I play with is in modern running UR storm and I'm currently toying with a bug list. That's neither here nor there. I personally have had times where Stirrings passed 2 titans which can be upsetting, but digging deeper for your needles to protect from wasteland, grab the posts you need or other lands in general, as well as all your eldrazi legends, top and Ugin. Ancient Stirrings has been great to me overall and I could never trade it for brainstorm any day. The real advantage that brainstorm seems to give is if you wanted to run miracle spells, then it would give you the ability to put them back on top of your deck.
I will try. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of map. I think it's a little slow, in early game. To search for a SPECIFIC land, crop is the best of course. And in my list I can use knight. Stirrings can give me land easier. I'll think on it!
I love Ancient Stirrings, but I agree that it's not at it's best in a UG or a GSZ deck. In fact, being able to play Ancient Stirrings is one of the main reasons I don't play Titans, S&T, Oracle, etc.. Ancient Stirrings helps me achieve in a monogreen deck just as much card selection as any blue deck -- but that's because my maindeck is around 80% colorless.
That said, the point you're missing about Ancient Stirrings is the flexibility. Yes, you can grab lands with Map or Crop. Yes, you can grab Eldrazi with Eye of Ugin. What makes Stirrings so powerful is that it lets you grab either with the same card, along with so much more. Stirrings lets you grab Ugin, Needle, O-Stone, All Is Dust, Map, and of course, Candelabra.
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So what's the deal with this deck right now? Is it unviable in the Omnitell / Miracles dominated metagame? Has everyone just given up on this deck? I really don't see why we can't tweak this deck to crush Omnitell G1. Maindeck Force of Will, maybe Mindbreak Trap and the like...
Maindeck force or will or any other counter magic is not enough to crush omnitell ever. The reason the deck beats other control decks is that the deck is all dig, combo and counter magic. If you can win a counter war that's great but unlikely unless you're a tempo deck. Our best bet is most likely a prison effect like 3 sphere or sphere of resistance slow them down until we answer omniscience or something with a comes into play trigger like Terastodon, o-ring, etc. Neither is a prefect solution but the deck is obviously losing to something if it isn't the entire top 8 every week so it's obviously beatable.
As you said, in a colorless deck (or with a strong colorless component) ancient is a must. But the "classical" 12 post focus on green spell to ramp: explore, oracle, GSZ, titan, natural order and S&T as shortcuts. I don't think stirrings is a good synergy in this deck.....BUT I tried a few metches replacing expedition map. I preferred stirrings: also if for me it's a gamble (flexible as a card yes, but in my list always a gamble :D) I like its speed. Map are sooooo slow..... turn 1: land, map. Turn 2, land pass. Eot, trigger map. Turn 3: we did nothing except having a desired land in hand. Of course, we can just cast map and activate it later in the game.....but this is not my idea of "ramp" :D
Every deck has its own bad matchups. I would not try to change our main deck only for Omnitell; as Aaron said, we'll be weak anyway, against a deck that is ONLY dig and counter. I 'd focus on side: depending on your local meta, you can add more cards dedicated to Omnitell. I usually put:
-trinisphere
-choke
-gaddock teeg
-rule of law
-sphere of resistance
-2 krosan grip
Trust me, g2 Omni doens't win so easily. Its strogest card, S&T, it's also its weakness. It MUST use that card to win. So, let it do its game....try to have in hand, as soon as possible, trinisphere (or the other cards listed, but trini is better). Putting on the field with S&T, trini stops its combo, and on your turn you can grip its omniscence, choke its islands, or simply crop a land for karakas if it put emrakul. All without the fear of a counter, cause you are protected by trini. Gaddock works only with enter the infinite sadly, and rule of law stops the opponent but doesn't protect your game.
And then: I also won some games with desperate/stupid opponent, with try to put emrakul on the board without omniscence. But with have karakas and emrakul too.....
Teeg also shuts off dig through time which is huge since that deck generally runs 4 as an amazing instant speed response to things.
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Very nice. I like it. I have to assume spheres and trap are for the storm and omnitell match up? Even elves for that matter. Have you squared off against omni and storm with this list? How did it go and what were your reflections?
I've played plenty of matches vs OmniTell. It's definitely one of the worst matchups. Game 1 is usually unwinnable unless they stumble or you can get a T3 Emrakul or Ulamog (blowing up a land). Postboard, Sphere is your primary line of defense. Even Grip doesn't do as much as you'd think; some local OmniTell players who know my deck started using the S&T Omniscience to cast a second Omniscience before I get priority to Grip.
Storm is a rough matchup too, but very winnable postboard. Game 1, the best line is usually to hold Crop for Bojuka Bog in response to PIF. Postboard, you cut a ton of dead cards and have a lot of weapons to fight. Sphere and MBT obviously do a lot of work. Surgical helps take out some of their cantrips, as well as mess up a topdeck when they keep after a Brainstorm or Ponder.
Elves is pretty evenly matched. You just need to stall them long enough to wipe the board. It's one of the reasons I play a split of All Is Dust and Ugin, as there are more lines to cast Dust on T3.
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Grats Boozecube! I've been testing a 2 candle version because that's what I own on paper.
Congraz!!
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