[Primer/Deck] Pox

[OmniStrata]

The biggest reason I'd never suggest excluding Big Bro Pox is due to the threat density and clock speeds. Granted, you can say 'play 2 threats! then you get double the clock speed!' There's also time limits to consider. We don't run 12 threats, usually 6-9 I'm seeing in newer lists so hitting with that 2nd threat wouldn't statistically be that common place. That and blockers, I hate blockers.

Awesome sauce occurs when you're at 3 lands, 1 recurrable threat, and 3 cards in hand. Happens often enough. And always faster than your opponent can balance their hand/resources. When you lose 1-2 cards to Pox and they lose 3-6 cards, there's ultimate card advantage to be had.

The idea that Dig Through Time is one of our worst issues is a real one. "Skipping" 7 turns to get 2 cards you need is crazy over powered. Chains of Mephistopheles is probably our strongest weapon against this thing, though it's prohibitive wallet cost doesn't help many. Thankfully, it's not a staple and we've got land destruction to deal with top decked spells. I'm bringing back my 1-of Crucible to Waste/Ghost Quarter lock.

[Ralf]

The biggest reason I'd never suggest excluding Big Bro Pox is due to the threat density and clock speeds. Granted, you can say 'play 2 threats! then you get double the clock speed!' There's also time limits to consider. We don't run 12 threats, usually 6-9 I'm seeing in newer lists so hitting with that 2nd threat wouldn't statistically be that common place. That and blockers, I hate blockers.

Awesome sauce occurs when you're at 3 lands, 1 recurrable threat, and 3 cards in hand. Happens often enough. And always faster than your opponent can balance their hand/resources. When you lose 1-2 cards to Pox and they lose 3-6 cards, there's ultimate card advantage to be had.

The idea that Dig Through Time is one of our worst issues is a real one. "Skipping" 7 turns to get 2 cards you need is crazy over powered. Chains of Mephistopheles is probably our strongest weapon against this thing, though it's prohibitive wallet cost doesn't help many. Thankfully, it's not a staple and we've got land destruction to deal with top decked spells. I'm bringing back my 1-of Crucible to Waste/Ghost Quarter lock.

I'm not saying Pox is bad. I'm saying it is not mandatory.

Chains is/was a good "hate" card against drawing engine, but DTT IS NOT affected by Chains. How unfortunate...

[wuberg]

What would be the 'flex slots' in this established deck you speak of?

For my opinion, the 'must have' cards in traditional Pox would be:
Innocent Blood
Inquisition of Kozilek
Hymn to Tourach
Sinkhole
Smallpox
1-2 Pox
Liliana of the Veil
Wasteland

That's half a deck right there. Are we even allowed wiggle room anymore? I think the reality of a Pox deck's strength ultimately lies in the Sideboard's ability to heal a game's problems vs. the 'band aids' that others use. (one - shot temporary effects)

I should have simply written "deck" rather than "deck list" in the post above* since we're not RUG Delver with 54 fixed slots, but Ralf and kombatkiwi have pretty much answered the question and expressed my thoughts already.

I also wouldn't say that the card Pox is mandatory, but I would definitely add a playset of Mishra's Factory and a few Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to the list above. Furthermore, I can't come up with a good reason for not including both 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and 1-3 The Abyss and in your 75. The irony with the deck is that although a fairly good version can be built on a budget, a fully powered Pox deck certainly should have access to the not so budget-friendly stuff from Legends, including Chains of Mephistopheles and possibly Nether Void (I usually prefer Sphere of Resistance or Trinisphere here).

* Edited now.

[Hardcore]

the new planeswalkers in the Origins set are cool. Unfortunately it is not to blacks advantage. (Green ramp will be silly)

[Ralf]

Any tips for miracle / Omni as sideboard choices ?

I'm struggling right now to settle on a proper sideboard and I'm asking for help from mono black players.

I won't lie I'm not playing Pox but a mono black (home brew) which I'm very happy with so far.

Here is the list (for those interested):

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
10 Swamp
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Geralf's Messenger
2 Empty the Pits
2 Funeral Charm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Soul Spike
2 Cruel Bargain
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Infernal Contract
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

SB: 1 Spinning Darkness
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Cabal Therapy
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Extirpate

[mykatdied]

Any tips for miracle / Omni as sideboard choices ?

I'm struggling right now to settle on a proper sideboard and I'm asking for help from mono black players.

I won't lie I'm not playing Pox but a mono black (home brew) which I'm very happy with so far.

Here is the list (for those interested):

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
10 Swamp
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Geralf's Messenger
2 Empty the Pits
2 Funeral Charm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Soul Spike
2 Cruel Bargain
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Infernal Contract
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

SB: 1 Spinning Darkness
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Cabal Therapy
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Extirpate

Against miracles they are likely to baord out terminus because pox doesn't really run creatures. Run empty the pits, which late game can give them the 1-2 punch EoT

[OmniStrata]

I should have simply written "deck" rather than "deck list" in the post above* since we're not RUG Delver with 54 fixed slots, but Ralf and kombatkiwi have pretty much answered the question and expressed my thoughts already.

I also wouldn't say that the card Pox is mandatory, but I would definitely add a playset of Mishra's Factory and a few Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to the list above. Furthermore, I can't come up with a good reason for not including both 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and 1-3 The Abyss and in your 75. The irony with the deck is that although a fairly good version can be built on a budget, a fully powered Pox deck certainly should have access to the not so budget-friendly stuff from Legends, including Chains of Mephistopheles and possibly Nether Void (I usually prefer Sphere of Resistance or Trinisphere here).

* Edited now.

I say Pox is mandatory due to the slow clocks. 1/3 life means your enemy has less time to play. That and for BBB, it's a great early bomb [kills hands] or late bomb [kills lands]. Of course, if your enemy has 4 creatures on the board, Smallpox isn't 'better' but you still get the card advantage. 4 of Pox is too much though. Did you choose those two artifacts due to their mana costs or the 'can't' clauses?

Also, with the cards you've mentioned, the 'list' is effectively 40+ cards or so. I argue against Tabernacle due to traditional lists running Nether Spirit. That 1 mana upkeep is precious.

With this in mind, I guess my best top-deck killers in the sideboard will remain as 2 pithing needles and 2 of 'that other thing' which I'm still searching for. I suppose it's time to save up hard for them Chains of Mephistopeles.

[PirateKing]

The idea that Dig Through Time is one of our worst issues is a real one. "Skipping" 7 turns to get 2 cards you need is crazy over powered. Chains of Mephistopheles is probably our strongest weapon against this thing, though it's prohibitive wallet cost doesn't help many. Thankfully, it's not a staple and we've got land destruction to deal with top decked spells. I'm bringing back my 1-of Crucible to Waste/Ghost Quarter lock.

Against decks like Blade Control and other heavy users of Dig Through Time and also using Snapcaster Mage, is siding in Leyline of the Void overkill? Assuming that we're running no other graveyard hate. I'm on the fence if it's too much dedication to a card that isn't a straight up threat, but also causes us so much misery.

[Hardcore]

Better to try wreck their game plan instead.

[Kanti]

Against decks like Blade Control and other heavy users of Dig Through Time and also using Snapcaster Mage, is siding in Leyline of the Void overkill? Assuming that we're running no other graveyard hate. I'm on the fence if it's too much dedication to a card that isn't a straight up threat, but also causes us so much misery.

I would definitely bring these in against an opponent sporting Snapcaster Mage and DTT. Relic is another great option here, as it cantrips and keeps them off of DTT without having you crack it.

edit: DTT is part of their game-plan. If you can close them off of an entire game zone, then why not?

[PirateKing]

I've considered Relic, since I wouldn't run a full four in the side, there'd be one or two open slots, get some room for more variety. Not convinced totally yet, because that turn zero feels so good and it dodges Decay, I feel it's the safer card. But maybe stepping out of the comfort zone every once in a while is good, no?

[glowparty]

I've considered Relic, since I wouldn't run a full four in the side, there'd be one or two open slots, get some room for more variety. Not convinced totally yet, because that turn zero feels so good and it dodges Decay, I feel it's the safer card. But maybe stepping out of the comfort zone every once in a while is good, no?

the cantrip on relic is nice if you see draw an unwanted second. also, if it's not in your opener, it comes online a lot faster and a late leyline won't stop them from dtt. i'm playing zombies and am trying 2 relic 1 leyline of the void for now.

[Hardcore]

i have tried nihil spell bomb, which does the same thing. The reasoning was to take advantage of the combination of gy hate and cantrips, making the deck leaner and more efficient.

[wuberg]

I say Pox is mandatory due to the slow clocks. 1/3 life means your enemy has less time to play. That and for BBB, it's a great early bomb [kills hands] or late bomb [kills lands]. Of course, if your enemy has 4 creatures on the board, Smallpox isn't 'better' but you still get the card advantage. 4 of Pox is too much though. Did you choose those two artifacts due to their mana costs or the 'can't' clauses?

Also, with the cards you've mentioned, the 'list' is effectively 40+ cards or so. I argue against Tabernacle due to traditional lists running Nether Spirit. That 1 mana upkeep is precious. :eek:

With this in mind, I guess my best top-deck killers in the sideboard will remain as 2 pithing needles and 2 of 'that other thing' which I'm still searching for. I suppose it's time to save up hard for them Chains of Mephistopeles. :cool:

I would never run less than four Smallpox, but have tried zero big Pox with reasonable results which is why I don't consider it 100% mandatory. However, I do agree that it's a very powerful card and 1-2 main is pretty sweet. The reason for why I usually prefer Sphere of Resistance and/or Trinisphere over Nether Void is that they drop earlier and effectively do the same job against e.g. Storm. Nether Void does have benefits since it creates a harder lock and can't be destroyed by Abrupt Decay, but it's also trickier to time with your own resources, not to mention that it destroys The Abyss due to the World supertype.

Not running Tabernacle because you have a Nether Spirit main is silly, the same line of argument would prohibit The Abyss as well. Given that the opponent have more creatures than you, she/he will be more severely affected. Furthermore, you can stack the triggers so that you have Nether Spirit in play every second turn and Mishra's Factory is still alive and kicking.

Pithing Needle is indeed great in Pox since it can adress both artifacts and planeswalkers that are otherwise problematic for us. I've been running one main and it seldom disappoints. Oppression is a pretty fun card until you've gotten your hands on Chains. It's a somewhat different effect of course (best in a discard heavy build in my experience), but it wrecks some of the decks that you would want Chains against.

[Kanti]

i have tried nihil spell bomb, which does the same thing. The reasoning was to take advantage of the combination of gy hate and cantrips, making the deck leaner and more efficient.

I can see the reasoning for this. Relic being a two-way effect sucks.

[glowparty]

I can see the reasoning for this. Relic being a two-way effect sucks.

relic's first ability can be really useful though when it comes down early game.

[Kanti]

Yeah, when I posted that I was thinking about my Loam Pox build. I don't think I'd like Relic too much in there, but in Mono-B Pox there is no reason to run Nihil Spellbomb, Crypt, or any other cheap artifact gy hate. It keeps opponents off delve, blows up if you need it to, and cantrips.

[VonHannemark]

Newish magic player (5 years off and on) new to Legacy (a few months.) Like many others I saw Reid Duke play this deck and fell in love with it. Here's my current list and some results.

• 1x Nether Spirit
  1x Bloodghast
  
  4x Lilliana
  4x Dark Ritual
  4x Thoughtseize
  4x Smallpox
  3x innocent Blood
  1x Pox
  1x Toxic Deluge
  4x Sinkhole
  4x Hymn to Tourach
  2x Cursed Scroll
  3x Crucible of Worlds
  
  4x Mishra's Factory
  2x Bojuka Bog
  1x Cabal Pit
  3x Urborg
  4x Wasteland
  10x Swamp
  
  SB
  
  3x Leyline
  1x Gate to Phyrexia
  3x Extirpate
  2x Pithing Needle
  3x Engineered Plague
  1x Sudden Spoiling
  1x Memoricide
  1x Tombstalker
  

My overall impression of the deck so far is very positive. I will be the first to admit I'm not an amazing magic payer, still making a lot of mistakes and need to put in more reps with the deck. It does however fit my play style and every win with it is very satisfying. Sideboard is very up in the air which I'll talk about later. I've played two events so far

SCG Worcester 5/23

Game 1 Omni-Tell
My first game at a legacy tournament - was obviously nervous. Match 1 I drew crap and mulled to 6 on the play. Opened up with thoughtseize saw double show and tell. Tried to beat up his hand as best I could but he hid is show and tell with brainstorm. Hard casted Emerakul sucks, and not instant speed removal is one of the biggest problems with my build currently.

Match 2 I sided in Extirpate. Didn't really help and I was pretty lost went pretty much like game 1.

Game 2 - ANT.

I don't remember much of this match up because it went really fast. Nice opening hands both matches beat up his hand quickly and got 2 quick scoops when he had 0 cards in hand.

Game 3 UW stoneblade
Match 1 drew good opening hand turn 1 lili w/ no force to stop it. Got down stoneforge and got batterskull in hand but was never able to cast it. Recurred wasteland, he no lands in play for 5-6 turns, multiple mishra's factory beatdown.
Match 2 no SB, didn't need it got him in a pretty early lili/Crucible lock and cursed scrolled him for literally 20 damage. This guy was not happy lol.

Game 4 MUD

This was a deck I'd heard of but never really looked into. Match 1 I was lucky enough to get a nuts draw, turn 1 lili followed by sinkhole, hymn etc etc.
Match 2 I was too cocky I was 2-1 at my first Legacy event and was playing against a deck with no blue in it! I don't think I boarded anything in. Mulled down to 6 on the draw with an OK hand. turn 1 chalice set to 1, then turn 2 trinisphere. Metal worker showed up and not far behind it was Blightsteel.
Match 3, I think I boarded here but not sure what it was. Looking back should have been pithing needle for metal worker, but anyway went a lot like match 2 with a bit of a grind turns 3-6ish.

Game 5 RWU stoneforge/delver (does this have a name?)

I felt good going into this with how badly I stomped on UW stoneblade and my friends RUG delver deck I played a few days before casually. Match 1 was pretty grindy but I ended up dying to a topdeck Clique and didn't draw an answer for several turns. By the time I did he was able to get out Jitte and blitzed out a snapcaster during my endstep.
Match 2 I was feeling a little defeated here and made a huge playmistake. I saw his hand turn 1 with thoughtseize, had 2 spell pierce. Turn 2 drew dark ritual and tried to play engineered plague naming wizards... oh yeah about those spell pierces.

I played another small tournament at my local store lost game 1 to omni show, and game 2 to Lands I won't go into as much detail but I think omni is a tough matchup and lands is winnable but I drew crap both games and had him on the ropes game 2 but didnt draw a 3rd land (2nd on board after smallpox) forever!

So things I lost to the most other than poor playing on my part - hardcast Emerakul and end of my turn Marit Lage. I think I need more instant speed edict effects in the board, I like sudden spoiling too because it has split second. If they have to pass the turn back to me I should be able to do a sorcery speed sac effect.

Sorry for the long post, will check back with changes, and any suggestions on my SB!

[mykatdied]

Newish magic player (5 years off and on) new to Legacy (a few months.) Like many others I saw Reid Duke play this deck and fell in love with it. Here's my current list and some results.

• 1x Nether Spirit
  1x Bloodghast
  
  4x Lilliana
  4x Dark Ritual
  4x Thoughtseize
  4x Smallpox
  3x innocent Blood
  1x Pox
  1x Toxic Deluge
  4x Sinkhole
  4x Hymn to Tourach
  2x Cursed Scroll
  3x Crucible of Worlds
  
  4x Mishra's Factory
  2x Bojuka Bog
  1x Cabal Pit
  3x Urborg
  4x Wasteland
  10x Swamp
  
  SB
  
  3x Leyline
  1x Gate to Phyrexia
  3x Extirpate
  2x Pithing Needle
  3x Engineered Plague
  1x Sudden Spoiling
  1x Memoricide
  1x Tombstalker
  

My overall impression of the deck so far is very positive. I will be the first to admit I'm not an amazing magic payer, still making a lot of mistakes and need to put in more reps with the deck. It does however fit my play style and every win with it is very satisfying. Sideboard is very up in the air which I'll talk about later. I've played two events so far

SCG Worcester 5/23

Game 1 Omni-Tell
My first game at a legacy tournament - was obviously nervous. Match 1 I drew crap and mulled to 6 on the play. Opened up with thoughtseize saw double show and tell. Tried to beat up his hand as best I could but he hid is show and tell with brainstorm. Hard casted Emerakul sucks, and not instant speed removal is one of the biggest problems with my build currently.

Match 2 I sided in Extirpate. Didn't really help and I was pretty lost went pretty much like game 1.

Game 2 - ANT.

I don't remember much of this match up because it went really fast. Nice opening hands both matches beat up his hand quickly and got 2 quick scoops when he had 0 cards in hand.

Game 3 UW stoneblade
Match 1 drew good opening hand turn 1 lili w/ no force to stop it. Got down stoneforge and got batterskull in hand but was never able to cast it. Recurred wasteland, he no lands in play for 5-6 turns, multiple mishra's factory beatdown.
Match 2 no SB, didn't need it got him in a pretty early lili/Crucible lock and cursed scrolled him for literally 20 damage. This guy was not happy lol.

Game 4 MUD

This was a deck I'd heard of but never really looked into. Match 1 I was lucky enough to get a nuts draw, turn 1 lili followed by sinkhole, hymn etc etc.
Match 2 I was too cocky I was 2-1 at my first Legacy event and was playing against a deck with no blue in it! I don't think I boarded anything in. Mulled down to 6 on the draw with an OK hand. turn 1 chalice set to 1, then turn 2 trinisphere. Metal worker showed up and not far behind it was Blightsteel.
Match 3, I think I boarded here but not sure what it was. Looking back should have been pithing needle for metal worker, but anyway went a lot like match 2 with a bit of a grind turns 3-6ish.

Game 5 RWU stoneforge/delver (does this have a name?)

I felt good going into this with how badly I stomped on UW stoneblade and my friends RUG delver deck I played a few days before casually. Match 1 was pretty grindy but I ended up dying to a topdeck Clique and didn't draw an answer for several turns. By the time I did he was able to get out Jitte and blitzed out a snapcaster during my endstep.
Match 2 I was feeling a little defeated here and made a huge playmistake. I saw his hand turn 1 with thoughtseize, had 2 spell pierce. Turn 2 drew dark ritual and tried to play engineered plague naming wizards... oh yeah about those spell pierces.

I played another small tournament at my local store lost game 1 to omni show, and game 2 to Lands I won't go into as much detail but I think omni is a tough matchup and lands is winnable but I drew crap both games and had him on the ropes game 2 but didnt draw a 3rd land (2nd on board after smallpox) forever!

So things I lost to the most other than poor playing on my part - hardcast Emerakul and end of my turn Marit Lage. I think I need more instant speed edict effects in the board, I like sudden spoiling too because it has split second. If they have to pass the turn back to me I should be able to do a sorcery speed sac effect.

Sorry for the long post, will check back with changes, and any suggestions on my SB!

you can't needle metalworker. Mana ability. Needle doesnt stop those.

[glowparty]

uwr delver / stoneforge is called patriot aggro