I like this list. Only thing is to many PFire and I don't know about Garruk with 3 Green mana.Originally Posted by maharis
Maybe easier, i posted that list from Dan Mercer going top8 during SCG. I tried to use the link, but it doesn't connect or something.
Anyway, pretty standard list aside from the 0 Liliana and multiple Huntmasters and Witnesses.
Running 2 Huntmasters has been good in the past. Opponents always had more trouble removing the second copy. Also the clock it presents vs combo decks is solid.
I can understand running 0 Liliana, but i tried that and was actually missing her.
Also 4 PFire has been pretty nice.
The sideboard looks more interesting. It feels like it is missing some fundemental numbers like more slaughter games and golfari charm (or toxic deluge). Also Choke and Mindbreak Trap are standard.
Really nice that PFire NicFit has made T8 at a SCG event.
Creatures (14)
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands (23)
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Spells (22)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dryad Militant
2 Choke
1 Golgari Charm
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Life from the Loam
1 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
In almost all cases, I see Nissa as a better Wood Elves. I can't think of too many instances where Wood Elves putting the land directly into play separates both cards enough. I know that's the ramp-difference, but again, I can't see this point pushing wood elves > nissa given all she does. Remember, there will be times you cast her for 3 then make the land-drop she gave you (making her an improved Wood Elves in my mind).
The bigger issue is whether she's needed in the deck in the first place. I can see her making an impact for sure.
Lol, and here I was thinking how shitty Nissa was compared to Wood Elves. Not in the weird world of NicFit she ain't! I can see her replacing a Wood Elves in Scapeshift builds. Gives you another permanent with some potential.
However, the immediate land provided by Wood elves could be a matter of life or death. Casting a Tusk/scape a turn sooner can be mandatory.
I would also point out that the main issue (as already stated by others) I see with Nissa is the "search for a basic forest".
The need for "mountains" in Scape is real when it comes to combo.
I truly don't see a use case where I would GSZ for Nissa rather than a Wood Elves. Period.
Anyway, the card does have some potential but I would rather use it in a straight G/B shell where you can effectively use its ability and where ramping is not a matter of life or death.
My 2 cents.
I can't wait to try 1 copy of the new Nissa in my straight B/G Nic Fit. She seems like an excellent fit for a grindy deck with Veteran-ramp, several basic forests and full Green Sun-package.
Whay is best Vraska or 5 drop Garruk? Vraska is easy to cast and have removel. Garruk draw cards and Make a 3/3 every turn. Hmm..
While Garruk, PH provides raw power to the field and can give you very raw cardadvantage, it is kind of linear. Flat as you may. The card draw is conditional and can put you in situations where an opponent can prevent you from draw (keeping the creatures away) plus it does not provide an answer now. Now is often what is critical in some matchups. Vraska does remove a non land permanent now. Also does Vraska provide negative cardadvantage once your opponent will start attacking in while she has "deathtouch". Also this is conditional. Opponent can still choose to attack you instead of Vraska, keeping situations out of reach that has to be dealt with sooner or later. The good news is that she will win the game ignoring her to long dodging lifepoints even. Garruk also wins the game if he sticks. I will also add that (2)GGG casting cost shouldn't be that hard in a standard manabase. So there is not a defenitive answer to which is best. I think you might want to imagine either against different archetypes and figure which would do more work. Ie against Miracles, OmniTell, BUG Delver or D&T.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Here is my first try at the NicFit world, I think I am hedging a little too much on the years of Junk that I played. I am choosing to play dark confidant as it is a criminally underplayed card right now and when paired with the Divining Top will minimize life loss and maximize value. Dark confidant also gives us a great turn 2 when our explorer gets swords/countered.
Gaddock Teeg/Discard/Liliana is a decent plan against combo and Miracles while discard and pernicious deed is our hedge against aggro decks.
From limited testing, very few decks can hang if we get our manabase established and that seems to be the benefit of playing a NicFit list.
The goal of the deck is to stabilize mana, ramp to PrimeTime to assemble the two towers and then use Thragtusk/Siege Rhino recursion to seal the deal. I have a Thragtusk/Sigarda flex depending on the amount of red removal/white removal in the meta.
The list:
Creatures(16)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Dark Confidant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Acidic Slime
1 Siege Rhino
Spells(23)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
Lands(21)
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 bayou
2 savannah
3 forest
2 swamp
1 plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard(15)
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Path to Exile
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 rest in peace
2 surgical extraction
3 choke
Thoughts?
Edit 1: - 1 Eternal Witness +1 Thragtusk
Edit 2: -1 Eternal Witness +1 Acidic Slime
Edit 3: -1 Eternal Witness +1 Courser of Kruphix
Notes: Deck is actually tons of fun, cabal therapy is pretty busted. Veteran Explorer starts are pure win. Hymn to Tourach is a must have against anything unfair.
This seems much more powerful than any Junk deck I have played in a few years. Trying acidic slime over restoration sage for the additional value. You will cast LOTS of green suns zeniths with this deck.
Need to find room for a courser of kruphix as a fifth dark confidant that is also GSZ-able.
Sensei's Divining Top is pretty much broken in this deck... just decided.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
You might even wanna consider Maelstrom Pulse in that slot as a catch all.
4 Dark Confidant, tricky. Personally i wouldnt choose that, but be sure to let us know how those turn out.
Also i find the lack of MD Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares a bit iffy, might be a meta choice.
And last, you could also swap a fetch for Karakas. The card is pretty solid against Marit Lage, Reanimate and Sneak/Show. Also it can protect Sigarda or Teeg. Or also to sneak in a GSZ under an active Teeg.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Eternal Witness has already completely been cut from the deck, lets see what happens. I imagine that I will cut something to put a singleton back in but as of now she seems like overkill.
The Dark Confidants have 3 Tops to guide their way and Thragtusk/Siege Rhino and Courser to help regain any lost life. We also have plenty of ways to kill a run away dark confidant.
I feel like confidant is the best way to shore up the unfair matches as we need a way to keep up the pressure with discard.
I almost want 4 tops in the list already but have not made the move yet.
Karakas is an easy move if that interests you, would increase the value of a PrimeTime to give eternal Sigardas(she is already hard enough to kill).
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
@lavafrogg:
Maybe the 21 lands are a bit greedy. I think you rely heavily on Explorer starts to get to your Hymn/Liliana Mana in time.
You can safely add a 4th Bayou.
With five 4cc+ drops, Dark Confidant it kind of a liability. I understand that Top/Courser+Fetch kind of protect you from the evil ones - I would have to test this. Please tell us your experiences with that.
Where would you bring in 3 Rest in Peace? Dredge, Reanimator?
I am testing currently and the lands have been working as well as I could hope, I could cut a 5 drop for another land if needed but I do not know yet which one I would like to drop. The land count could easily go up to 22/23.
Dark Confidant has not been a liability as of yet, with limited testing, and actually lets the deck keep up/move past other decks in the format.
Rest in Peace is a catch all against all of the rouge/teir 2 strategies that abuse the graveyard...ie lands, dredge and nerfs any goyf/mongoose based ground assaults to a halt. RUG is a pretty bad matchup if you can't get started.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
21 lands looks way too greedy. I think 22 would be the sweet spot. I really like that concept overall.
If you run the 2 towers, what is the rationale behind 0 witness? Space?
I think removing either gaddock, ooze or slime would be best to make room for the extra land, depending on the meta. Acidic slime recursion seems like the danger of cool things when I have decays and deeds.
Eternal witness just seems too slow and too win more at this point in testing. I started with 3 eternal witness and have cut down to 0 as they do not help us when we need it the most. A thragtusk/siege rhino will stop the bleeding or apply pressure, teeg and ooze help in unfair match ups, courser is a GSZ able dark confidant and prime time/sigrada are over the top threats to make sure we win fair matchup.
Witness does not do enough in her own... Which makes me sad.
The 2 towers have enough to recur in siege rhino and thragtusk, in addition to protecting any other creature from removal.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Drop Acidic Slime for sure. Both Teeg as Ooze are to important cards against decks like Dredge, Reanimate and ANT. Also Teeg and Ooze are solid against control (teeg stops FoW/DTT) or tempo (can het bigger then goyf and gives life) . Plus their CMC 2 is good for the overall mana curve of the deck.
As of Eternal Witness i had the same feeling, but then i was able to retrieve answers lategame or relaunch an Slaughter Games vs combo during games and realized that is it such a good card if played. Also Eternal Witness can get back lands (like Stronghold or Karakas). But Eternal Witness might be excessive with 4 Dark Confidant.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Okay so -1 acidic slime, +1 scrubland
and eternal witness is a slow card so I will replace another slow card in Pernicious Deed for
-1 Pernicious Deed, + 1 Eternal Witness
I feel like with all of the shuffling and toping, we will be able to find a deed when we need to, also, eternal witness and pernicious deed will be able to lock out a couple games for us.
Current list:
Creatures(16)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Dark Confidant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Siege Rhino
1 Eternal Witness
Spells(22)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
Lands(22)
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 bayou
2 savannah
1 scrubland
3 forest
2 swamp
1 plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard(15)
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Path to Exile
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 rest in peace
2 surgical extraction
3 choke
What do you think now? I will be able to play in a local this weekend if we can finalize a list.
Edit: I was just asked about switching out the pernicious deeds for spot removal i.e. Path to exile, and i feel that deed is such a big trump card against most of the format and many games will be won on the back of a board clearing pernicious deed and us dropping a large threat like rhino or tusk and just riding to victory. Very classic rock like.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Pernicious Deed is one of the most imprtant cards of this deck. Just like you just stated. I would never play less then 3 if not playing Birthing Pod. You do not run Swords/Path but that is the sacrifice you make for running Hymn.. which in its turn is less good when not running a deck with Wasteland.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Playing tonight and the pernicious deed has not been missed with Tops and Bobs to find it.
Hymn is just a good card and in conjunction with cabal therapy can completely empty an opponents hand very early in the game. I am going for pure power with the discard, looking to get as much CA as possible and to lock opponents under a Lilliana as soon as possible.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
What do we feel about this? Worse than Primeval Titan, most likely. But still, it's kinda cool.
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