[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Lemnear]

Yeah i'm Christian Hammer

We have some Reanimator Players at the Tournaments here in Switzerland. And at least 2 of these Players (one in my LGS) play Iona main. I think at the Moment Reanimator is a bit off the Radar. But still a good deck with a lot of good matchups.

Surgical seems a bit loose since we have a pretty tight Sideboard. But i will give it a try.

Atm i struggle more with the Burn Players here really hating on Combo. Last League one of them boarded 10 cards in against me. (4 Pillars, 4 Leyline of Sanctity and 2 Pyroclasms against Empty)

Greetings Christian

Pillar, Eidolon and Leyline all suck against T1/2 Goblins, no? Don't let the Clasms disturb you here. You board CoV anyways against all that crap.

Hi, Lemnear, this list looks cool and interesting!

Especially no more chrome moxes which create awkward opening hand / top deck sometimes. Also I am curious to know how much the missing mox will weaken the Ad Nauseam or our speed in general? But at least, I think this list has a more stable and stronger middle/late game

Have you already had any real match experience with the test list? Would like to hear your opinion about your new list.

Anyway, thanks very much for sharing an interesting list :)

You can flip more cards w/o EtW in the deck and ergo need less IMS overall while you run more rituals to float mana into AN as well. The 14th land and 2nd green manasource is to deal with Tempo decks and Wasteland, also enabling Decays to stay an option in the face of Wastelands. This gets me around stuff like Carpets in the SB. Returned the 3rd Duress to the MB as the switch of EtW for the SB Thoughtseize was a common one postboard against combo and with Counterbalance and S&T everywhere, it appeared reasonable to use a similar config preboard as well.

I will test this idea during one of the Trials in Lille

[Pelikanudo]

Current MB in testing (feat 4 SB Decay):

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Bayou

2 Rain of Filth
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame

4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
1 Ad Nauseam

Just my H.O.:
I don't know if you evaluated Tinder Wall as an option, it is even a +2mana card if you play it an sacrifice it on next turn!
Nice to see 4 A.D. in your side!

Please let me know how much 2nd RoF sucks - however I see that card in a 14 lands build like yours - but not sure if will be ok with 0 basics. I undestand that you play 2 just because the statistics to draw that card - but really sucks, if you draw it the second time - that's why I suggest super Tinder Wall! Maybe playing a swamp instead the 2nd bayou is ok... but I see the 2nd to try to get the most of A.D. vs Wastelands.Deck...

[Lemnear]

Just my H.O.:
I don't know if you evaluated Tinder Wall as an option, it is even a +2mana card if you play it an sacrifice it on next turn!
Nice to see 4 A.D. in your side!

Please let me know how much 2nd RoF sucks - however I see that card in a 14 lands build like yours - but not sure if will be ok with 0 basics. I undestand that you play 2 just because the statistics to draw that card - but really sucks, if you draw it the second time - that's why I suggest super Tinder Wall! Maybe playing a swamp instead the 2nd bayou is ok... but I see the 2nd to try to get the most of A.D. vs Wastelands.Deck...

I did not evaluate Tinder Wall here because it's green and not scaling with the turns played. Even the MB Carpets do a better job, which you hated. I run 4 SB Decay for quite a while. It's necessary in Europe.

I guess it still sucks less than dawing the second Chrome Mox in a single game lol. Rain of Filth is a lategame card which is also pretty good to flip to AN turn 2 and further and as you don't want to see two in a single game the number is fine. As said the 14th land and second green source is to help out against wasteland and taxing effects, so I don't have to bother with SB carpets & Co. or have to fear that a Wasteland shuts off my Decays. Its valid to ponder about the 14th land being a Basic or Tropical at this point.

[Bryant Cook]

I did not evaluate Tinder Wall here because it's green and not scaling with the turns played. Even the MB Carpets do a better job, which you hated. I run 4 SB Decay for quite a while. It's necessary in Europe.

I guess it still sucks less than dawing the second Chrome Mox in a single game lol. Rain of Filth is a lategame card which is also pretty good to flip to AN turn 2 and further and as you don't want to see two in a single game the number is fine. As said the 14th land and second green source is to help out against wasteland and taxing effects, so I don't have to bother with SB carpets & Co. or have to fear that a Wasteland shuts off my Decays. Its valid to ponder about the 14th land being a Basic or Tropical at this point.

You mean where Chrome Mox still has applications and Rain doesn't?

Your list has essentially made TES a slower, most likely worse version of ANT. You've slowed the deck down considerably while adding a color (in comparison to ANT). I actually just fail to see why anyone would pilot TES if its essentially the same deck with worse mana. Your list is almost a one-trick pony, if you were going to completely cut Chrome Mox and slow down the deck, you could've added Cabal Rituals to improve the late game PIF.

[alaska]

Been away from TES for months now, but does the newly spoiled Dark Petition have a place in our sideboard?

[Asthereal]

New Tutor coming up in Magic Origins:

Dark Petition, sorcery, cost: 3BB
Search for a card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Spell mastery: if there are two or more instants and/or sorceries in your graveyard, add BBB to your mana pool.

Excellent Wish target. Seems like we never ever have to side out Infernal, which is nice.

[Pelikanudo]

New Tutor coming up in Magic Origins:

Dark Petition, sorcery, cost: 3BB
Search for a card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Spell mastery: if there are two or more instants and/or sorceries in your graveyard, add BBB to your mana pool.

Excellent Wish target. Seems like we never ever have to side out Infernal, which is nice.

Yes! Yes! and Yes!

I couldn't believe that, but this is esentially an I.T. for Side!!! with dependency on G.Y. I believe - I can now get rid of my so loved Dimionihing returns! - Holy Shit. on the other hand I have to get rid of my Grim Tutors ASAP... as I only got them for my TNT build!!!

Great ! I'm so happy...

[Bryant Cook]

My thoughts on today's spoils: http://www.theepicstorm.com/magic-or...combo-spoiler/

[sawatarix]

My thoughts on today's spoils: http://www.theepicstorm.com/magic-or...combo-spoiler/

Excellent work Bryant, we share the exact same opinion about both new cards in Magic Origins.

Lemnears list is only a inferior version of ANT with no benefit.With 14 Lands you can't get full advantage and boost of Rain of Filth. Cabal Ritual is the way to go if you want to improve your lategame. But still, this deck wants to power out goblins or Ad Nauseam as soon as possible.
Another thing about Rain if Filth: I use Rain in Ant to get fast ******** for Cabal Rituals. In Tes it is strictly a really bad Dark Ritual.It does nothing on Turn1.

[CutthroatCasual]

Thank god. I'm tired of reading posts by uneducated Magic players (see: those who have no experience with eternal formats) talk about how busted Day's Undoing is going to be busted.

[alaska]

Thank god. I'm tired of reading posts by uneducated Magic players (see: those who have no experience with eternal formats) talk about how busted Day's Undoing is going to be busted.

Busted? No,not sure who's saying that, but it does present an interesting brewing challenge.

[Kanti]

Let's also give it some time, as in give some people some time to try and bust it. That is how things become busted, barring they are reprints of Recall, or named Treasure Cruise.

[Lemnear]

Excellent work Bryant, we share the exact same opinion about both new cards in Magic Origins.

Lemnears list is only a inferior version of ANT with no benefit.With 14 Lands you can't get full advantage and boost of Rain of Filth. Cabal Ritual is the way to go if you want to improve your lategame. But still, this deck wants to power out goblins or Ad Nauseam as soon as possible.
Another thing about Rain if Filth: I use Rain in Ant to get fast ******** for Cabal Rituals. In Tes it is strictly a really bad Dark Ritual.It does nothing on Turn1.

Oh, being able to work with AN safely while going down to two life, giving shit about yard-hate and still being able to go for the long run isn't something with at least potential benefit? Cabal Ritual + Past In Flames + Dark Petition do nothing against yard-hate. Doesn't stop you from running these either, no? Is it foolish to expect a rise of yard-hate with Storm on everyones Radar and DTT in 55%+ of decks? Pointing at the value of Rain for turn 1 is totally off as it's not meant for that scenario otherwise we can also point at Chrome Moxen drawn turn 3+.

EtW is totally unimpressive atm and there is absolutely no reason to streamline the deck for the Belcher-Mode and burst-EtW if 75%+ of your matchups are against (taxing) counters anyways slowing you down or the opposing deck just kills you within the two/three turns the Goblins would require to kill regardless. Goblins are not good enough atm to sacrifice midgame-potential via Cabal Rituals or Rains for Chrome Moxen to support the Token ambush.

Why do you think 14 lands isn't enough to work with Rain?

[Dark Ritual]

Oh, being able to work with AN safely while going down to two life, giving shit about yard-hate and still being able to go for the long run isn't something with at least potential benefit? Cabal Ritual + Past In Flames + Dark Petition do nothing against yard-hate. Doesn't stop you from running these either, no? Is it foolish to expect a rise of yard-hate with Storm on everyones Radar and DTT in 55%+ of decks? Pointing at the value of Rain for turn 1 is totally off as it's not meant for that scenario otherwise we can also point at Chrome Moxen drawn turn 3+.

EtW is totally unimpressive atm and there is absolutely no reason to streamline the deck for the Belcher-Mode and burst-EtW if 75%+ of your matchups are against (taxing) counters anyways slowing you down or the opposing deck just kills you within the two/three turns the Goblins would require to kill regardless. Goblins are not good enough atm to sacrifice midgame-potential via Cabal Rituals or Rains for Chrome Moxen to support the Token ambush.

Why do you think 14 lands isn't enough to work with Rain?

With 14 lands it's likely to be worse than cabal ritual and even chrome mox as for rain of filth to be at all good you want 3+ lands in play and 14 lands doesn't consistently accomplish that even with cantrips. Draw 2 rain of filth is a special kind of bad of course.

I agree with what Bryant said in his article about petition and new twister. One nitpick I have is that petition isn't bad against soft countermagic. It costs 2 mana same as infernal tutor as you can't storm off on BBB in legacy short of cruel bargain/infernal contract and I don't think anyone will be playing those in TES or ANT.

I think the new twister is abysmal. If you're going to pass after a 3 mana spell resolves on your end it might as well be doomsday and passing after resolving doomsday already feels bad enough as the opponent is likely to tear your shit up in a million different ways if you give them a fresh 7. The worst case scenario for the card isn't that unrealistic either in that your opponent draws quite well and you draw dog shit/likely lose on the spot. The worst case scenario that is also very realistic is the opponent putting a show and tell, sneak attack + activation, counterbalance, sensei's top, or something on the stack. I've already seen people advocate for a ban on the card and I'm just going to watch them do nothing with it as it's very fair. The only case I can think of where it could be good is if you get your hand torn to shreds and you resolve it to negate the discard or you are able to resolve it with a lot of artifact mana onboard on turn 1 or something to that effect/actually profit quite well off it.

[Lemnear]

With 14 lands it's likely to be worse than cabal ritual and even chrome mox as for rain of filth to be at all good you want 3+ lands in play and 14 lands doesn't consistently accomplish that even with cantrips. Draw 2 rain of filth is a special kind of bad of course.

I agree with what Bryant said in his article about petition and new twister. One nitpick I have is that petition isn't bad against soft countermagic. It costs 2 mana same as infernal tutor as you can't storm off on BBB in legacy short of cruel bargain/infernal contract and I don't think anyone will be playing those in TES or ANT.

I think the new twister is abysmal. If you're going to pass after a 3 mana spell resolves on your end it might as well be doomsday and passing after resolving doomsday already feels bad enough as the opponent is likely to tear your shit up in a million different ways if you give them a fresh 7. The worst case scenario for the card isn't that unrealistic either in that your opponent draws quite well and you draw dog shit/likely lose on the spot. The worst case scenario that is also very realistic is the opponent putting a show and tell, sneak attack + activation, counterbalance, sensei's top, or something on the stack. I've already seen people advocate for a ban on the card and I'm just going to watch them do nothing with it as it's very fair. The only case I can think of where it could be good is if you get your hand torn to shreds and you resolve it to negate the discard or you are able to resolve it with a lot of artifact mana onboard on turn 1 or something to that effect/actually profit quite well off it.

I guess Days Undoing works best in decks like Tezzerator or with Goblin Welder in terms of "combo" aka decks running Chalice to not give away the game by passing the turn but reap a benefit from the mana cost of Undoing by running Sol lands and Signets. FoW+ThirstForKnoedge+Undoing+Chalice sounds fitting.

Petition -> Doomsday is real. Just to mention as an option here.

You seem to have the impression I'm not fine with Rain of Filth acting as a black Rite of Flame turn 2, but simply aiming at having it with 4 lands or the like which isn't the case. I don't think pointing at 2 Rains in terms of drawing multiples is valid if people are fine with playing 3 Moxen. Having like two lands and two Rains is still 3 mana; two lands and two Moxen are just two unless you see it as given to have two more useless cards for imprint. It's wierd to talk about 14 lands not delivering a base for Rain if I look at Kais GP Kyoto Video footage and see him making landdrops without end and even flooding out in the match against Miracles. You wanna really tell me there is a problem of getting to two of more lands in general or because it's totally common to win with 1 land against blue decks?

[Asthereal]

You seem to have the impression I'm not fine with Rain of Filth acting as a black Rite of Flame turn 2, but simply aiming at having it with 4 lands or the like which isn't the case. I don't think pointing at 2 Rains in terms of drawing multiples is valid if people are fine with playing 3 Moxen. Having like two lands and two Rains is still 3 mana; two lands and two Moxen are just two unless you see it as given to have two more useless cards for imprint. It's wierd to talk about 14 lands not delivering a base for Rain if I look at Kais GP Kyoto Video footage and see him making landdrops without end and even flooding out in the match against Miracles. You wanna really tell me there is a problem of getting to two of more lands in general or because it's totally common to win with 1 land against blue decks?

You could also run 1x Rain of Filth, 1x Chrome Mox. Problem solved.

[Bryant Cook]

I agree with what Bryant said in his article about petition and new twister. One nitpick I have is that petition isn't bad against soft countermagic. It costs 2 mana same as infernal tutor as you can't storm off on BBB in legacy short of cruel bargain/infernal contract and I don't think anyone will be playing those in TES or ANT.

How is a 5 mana spell not weak to soft countermagic? There's actually a pretty big deal between 2CC and 3 floating compared to 5CC + 3 Mana. The first allows you to play around Daze/Pierce, because if they have it you can get Empty the Warrens and you can cast discard spells before the tutor. Where is if you want to cast discard spells before Petition, you're likely not going to have enough mana.

As for Lemnears list, he's far too focused on beating one deck – he has tunnel vision on destroying Miracles. His list will suffer against Tempo/D&T/Maverick as being slow against them can hurt you, Empty the Warrens is huge there as well.

[Lemnear]

As for Lemnears list, he's far too focused on beating one deck – he has tunnel vision on destroying Miracles. His list will suffer against Tempo/D&T/Maverick as being slow against them can hurt you, Empty the Warrens is huge there as well.

According to MTG Top 8 data 28,4% of the Legacy metagame runs Daze, the same percentage runs Pierce and 29,4% for Wasteland, which mark matchups where an improved manageneration is desireable. 75,1% are running FoW to foil greedy turn 1 combos and unprotected kills postboard in any case. 14,4% run Counterbalance, 10% S&T while Aether Vial is down to a mere 5% and Thalia 3,5%.

It's not about Miracles. It's about having more and better mana to overcome these close to 30% of decks running Daze/Pierce/Wasteland which ANT has such a good matchup against thanks to powering through the manadenial and asuming that the T1/2 combo against all these FoW decks is doomed to fail unless you have a real nut draw with +6 mana, Tutor/Wish and discard. I'm fine "suffering" against Maverick and D&T as they are only damn 3,5% of the metagame.

You can't call it tunnel vision, if I prepare for the 75,1% FoW matchups which slow you down regardless, rather than for the 3,5% Thalia.decs. The last real remaining tempo deck aka RUG Delver is less than 2% of the metagame

[Bryant Cook]

According to MTG Top 8 data 28,4% of the Legacy metagame runs Daze, the same percentage runs Pierce and 29,4% for Wasteland, which mark matchups where an improved manageneration is desireable. 75,1% are running FoW to foil greedy turn 1 combos and unprotected kills postboard in any case. 14,4% run Counterbalance, 10% S&T while Aether Vial is down to a mere 5% and Thalia 3,5%.

It's not about Miracles. It's about having more and better mana to overcome these close to 30% of decks running Daze/Pierce/Wasteland which ANT has such a good matchup against thanks to powering through the manadenial and asuming that the T1/2 combo against all these FoW decks is doomed to fail unless you have a real nut draw with +6 mana, Tutor/Wish and discard. I'm fine "suffering" against Maverick and D&T as they are only damn 3,5% of the metagame.

You can't call it tunnel vision, if I prepare for the 75,1% FoW matchups which slow you down regardless, rather than for the 3,5% Thalia.decs. The last real remaining tempo deck aka RUG Delver is less than 2% of the metagame

Tempo decks are not exclusive to RUG Delver. BUG/Grixis are also mana denial decks. Even if all of those decks are running Daze/Pierce, Empty the Warrens is fantastic against them, it's one of our best tools in the match-up. You're not going to beat those decks by not playing basics (which is one of the reason ANT is successful against them) while running weaker rituals.

You don't have to slow down against blue based decks, an early Empty does wonders against a number of them.

Not to mention, having Chrome Mox is a big deal in the Omnishow match-up in which you need to be fast in.

[LDX]

I won't make a long, detailled report, but I have until Saturday night to make some adjustments. We have our first tournament of the season and people are getting used to my TES. Actually, the questions might be long, but only for the sake of precision.

Today was 2-2. Ok at best, but let's just say the match ups I had luck with last time turned bad this week.

2-0 vs UR Delver (Goblins helped, first time she was playing a blue Delver deck, it showed)
2-0 vs Elves! (easy matchup + new player on Elves!)
1-2 vs Death & Taxes (these Chalices... lost game one after mulligan to 5, then won, then lost again)
0-2 vs Affinity (insane top deck both games, Whipflare to clear Goblins, Cranial Plating after I just discard one in my turn)

My two points of the night

-Death & Taxes might be an easy match up, these Chalices of the Void @0 then @1 are destroying me.
-Affinity seems too fast if you don't win in the first two turn.

While the decks are different, it seems to my (small) experience that they are played the same against: go as fast as possible, before the hate drops down. I either win on T1, or after a Pyroclasm/Grapeshot/Massacre on all the hatebears and build up before they can recover. I've yet to meet a situation in which I can do a fancy EOT CoV on a Chalice to get me a win.

I would like to work on 2 things until Saturday:

1) Hands to keep against these decks
2) Grapeshot, Pyroclasm & Massacre boarding

Sadly, I had horrible draws & mulligans, I don't know how else I could explain it.

For the plan I had, I kept what I considered good hands (missing 1 tutor, but had Ponder & Brainstorm, for instance). Funny part is, it seems I had the same two major issue vs both decks: first, horrible mulligans. On my 5 games vs them, I kept at 7 one, and I won that game. I mulliganed twice to 6, and twice to 5. Hands with no lands nor enough mana to go on first turn. Then, when I keep a hand and try to setup a kill by turn 2 or 3, I either get a Chalice or a Canonist set against me.

My question will then be this one, but I doubt it can be easily explained: in my opening hand, should I rather aim for a turn 1 kill, even if I have to go on 4 cards, or should I instead work around hate?

By the time I find my missing piece, there is something stopping me, all the time. Chalice, Canonist, Thalia, Revoker, or an equipped Cranial Plating to prevent the Ad Nauseam.

In other words, what I tried to do was to get a good, solid hand, to combo as fast as possible vs both decks. It failed all games, leaving me with a single missing piece every time, while they builded their way to win. As it only worked once if 5 games, I'm wondering if the strategy I chose to go for is a good one.

For instance, I lost my first game vs Death & Taxes mostly because of a mulligan to 5, after two hands without lands or reliable mana source. Then, I won with Goblins on turn 1. Third game, I mulligan to 6, get a turn 1 Ad Nauseam combo. Since he's on the play, Chalice @ 0. Little things like that. Was a mulligan to 5 a better idea? Against Affinity, pretty much the same. I get a good mulligan at 6, ready for a turn 2 win. She's on the play. She drops her hand on the floor and has a Cranial Plating equipped on a Vault Skirge. My turn, I play my Ponder, settle things for next turn. She swings for 7 Lifelink, I now have to do 27 damage with a 12 life Ad Nauseam, considering the fetch. It's DOABLE and there are other things to do like Burning Wish for hate, etc, but this week, I couldn't recover after my sweepers. Let's bring up this point now.

Grapeshot, Pyroclasm, and Massacre.

Well first of all, I usually side Grapeshot and Pyroclasm in, and leave Massacre outside. Today, it costed me games twice. Two times did I have a Burning Wish in hand, enough mana to grab a 2CMC sweeper, and couldn't because they were board in. Didn't have enough for Massacre and either you don't get enough juice for your incoming combo, or you're just too short on time to hardcast and then combo. I don't want to cut the Massacre out as it gave me a game vs D&T and Elves!, however I'm starting to think about having in main post board and leave either GS or Pyro in side up to be grabbed. The issue I would see with that is the highest curve for AdN, but how often do you win with AdN in these matchups? Isn't it better to Empty the Warrens after a sweep, when our opponents have no hands or creature? I might have been doing something wrong, but AdN was too slow to build after a sweep.

I'm sure this has been discussed before.

On a TL;DR note, let's make these few scenarios, and see what's the best solution

1) Keep a very fast hand with no protection to combo as fast as possible, either with Empty the Warrens or Ad Nauseam, and try to find CoV, Pyroclasm or the like if needed
2) Mulligan until you find a Chalice hate
3) Keep a defensive hand with Pyroclasm or Grapeshot against Thalia/Canonist/Revoker, then hope to build back quicker than them
4) Please, I need enlightenment.

Or is it too vague to be answered at all? :(