[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[Curtis Dittmar]

To all the OG Doomsday ers.

When did you realize you where ready to take Doomsday to a large tournament/What requirements did you feel you had to meet?

[mistercakes]

To all the OG Doomsday ers.

When did you realize you where ready to take Doomsday to a large tournament/What requirements did you feel you had to meet?

just give your opponents the respect to make piles with a reasonable time, otherwise who cares b/c unless if you're a die hard tourney player, there's good chance you can scrub out with any other deck. so just make sure you can build simple piles in fast time. more difficult piles are always fine as everyone understands certain complexities.

:)

that being said, play in a bunch of 3 or 4 round tourneys first b/c the deck can be tiring if you aren't used to it.

i also generally play pretty fast, but with doomsday, many matches go to time. (almost never go to time w/ other decks, so be prepared to miss out on scheduled meals)

[Curtis Dittmar]

Appreciate it.





So I was practicing and came into a interesting situation. The starting 7 Dr, DD, Top, BS and 3 land. First thoughts where man if i was Emmy/Shelldock Id go for it right now :(

Turn one fetch islnad> Top

Turn 2 the card I draw is not relevant,fetch Swamp cast DR> DD tank for a while and come up with

Led
Iu
LED
LED
BW

Seemed the best option,but would like to know others.

[Ogh!]

So I was practicing and came into a interesting situation. The starting 7 Dr, DD, Top, BS and 3 land.

This is not an interesting situation. In fact, if you're on the play you'd always play a land and then Top. If you're on the draw you may want to play around Daze and play Top turn 2. It's so simple that I'd classify this (good) hand as a no-brainer.

Turn 2 the card I draw is not relevant,fetch Swamp cast DR> DD tank for a while and come up with

Led
Iu
LED
LED
BW

Seemed the best option,but would like to others.

This is the standard 2-cantrip pile that, together with the standard 1-cantrip pile (IU, LED, GP, LED, BW), is used in roughly 80% of all cases when DD resolves.

If you want to solve some interesting DD-puzzles I recommend Team Stormboards to you: http://teamstormboards.proboards.com

[emidln]

Along the speed recommendations, you need to make sure your opponent plays at a reasonable pace. Many people have no idea what is going on against you and will take a lot longer than normal. Make sure they don't slow-play you into a draw. I saw this a lot when I was playing physical magic. Despite being very fast with Doomsday (or even ANT, Omni, etc) I'd go to time because my opponents would boggart the clock.

[the driver]

Along the speed recommendations, you need to make sure your opponent plays at a reasonable pace. Many people have no idea what is going on against you and will take a lot longer than normal. Make sure they don't slow-play you into a draw. I saw this a lot when I was playing physical magic. Despite being very fast with Doomsday (or even ANT, Omni, etc) I'd go to time because my opponents would boggart the clock.

This is important advice. Especially during the combo people will "tank" even though they have no play. They are looking for you to make a mistake or just can't keep up with what is happening. I deliberately review along the away to try and mitigate this. Also if your opponent goes through your deck post DD, nearly everyone does, don't let that eat away at the clock.

[sillysam71]

I had a guy sort my entire deck post doomsday at worlds a few years ago. Looking back, I would call a judge on time, but it was a shelldock emmy pile that I knew he wouldn't know about and we had plenty of time. I won anyway.

I've also found that my opponent is usually the reason that I would get to time, for most of the reasons stated above. Just gotta push them along and call a judge if they're not cooperating.

To all the OG Doomsday ers.

When did you realize you where ready to take Doomsday to a large tournament/What requirements did you feel you had to meet?

My first Doomsday tournament was GP Columbus in...2008? Not the flash hulk one, the one Saito won with Merfolk and then got banned. Looking back, I feel like you're never ready for your first big tournament with DD, but it's an integral part to becoming ready. You can only goldfish so much. I basically just had a handful of basic piles memorized and that was it. You'll make a lot of mistakes in the beginning, but I feel like that's the only way to properly learn. Just go for it, dive in, relax and try to play tight. Think your plays through to minimize mistakes and walk your way through the combo so that your opponent doesn't get confused, make you start over, and then mess you up or something like that. Good luck.

[Kanti]

The new 5cc tutor looks very interesting considering Doomsday cost 3cc. If no one has seen it it's;

Dark Petition 3BB
Search your library for a card and put that card into your hand. The shuffle your library.

Spell Mastery - If there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard add BBB to your mana pool.

[Ancestral]

The new 5cc tutor looks very interesting considering Doomsday cost 3cc. If no one has seen it it's;

Dark Petition 3BB
Search your library for a card and put that card into your hand. The shuffle your library.

Spell Mastery - If there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard add BBB to your mana pool.

I m alreafy working on it for doomsday, not sure if its great but defentlt wprths the test! Perhaps i gonna test wih 2 maind+1side or 1mais+1side

[Ancestral]

The new 5cc tutor looks very interesting considering Doomsday cost 3cc. If no one has seen it it's;

Dark Petition 3BB
Search your library for a card and put that card into your hand. The shuffle your library.

Spell Mastery - If there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard add BBB to your mana pool.

I m alreafy working on it for doomsday, not sure if its great but defentlt wprths the test! Perhaps i gonna test wih 2 maind+1side or 1mais+1side

[Mhenlo]

Is this card better than Burning Wish is the real question. It would allow us to cut Red but then we have to run Tendrils main and don't have the utility of BW. IMO it helps ANT the most because that was the deck that was short on Tutors. I could see it making it easier to SB Doomsday in storm decks.

[Kathal]

My thoughts about the new Tutor:

If you want to play it, play it in the old German DDFT version, with Cabal Rit, Iggy and Tendrils main. Otherwise, you can't support the 5 Mana that easy. Furthermore, I doubt, that it would be better than the Burning Wish builds, simply because they "cost" the same amount of Mana, but the new Tutor needs a higher starting investment. Also, a Wish board is better atm (at least in my opinion) than a normal one.

The card might be playable in ANT, but even there I doubt it (it has to replace ADN, but the card isn't that great anymore).

Edit says: the best deck would be SPI for it, simply because they lack another tutor.

Greetings,
Kathal

[Namida]

I don't think this card is better than Burning Wish in the list I'm playing now. I agree that I'm not sure this deck currently has the mana to support a five mana spell; I enjoy how cantrips reduce the costs of our piles to play around soft counters, and the biggest problem I have with Dark Petition is that it's not that easy to pay five up front for the spell since we don't play many rituals, and it's hard to use LED mana for it unlike some of our other cards. I remember the brief stint playing Ad Nauseam in this deck and casting it was a pain.

The upsides I can see for Dark Petition over Burning Wish are that it's not red and that it can make two black mana into three (which shouldn't come up often anyway since it's a corner case that you can generate five mana but not three black). That being said...If this card ends up making a splash, I would assume that it's going to be a different build of Doomsday. This card isn't bad...if you don't want to play red, I think this card might be what you're looking for. One of the biggest issues people seem to have with straight UB Doomsday is that just four Doomsday isn't enough business and all of the other options were more situational or were card disadvantage. In this way, I'd say I'm not sure going back to the German list is the way to go--I feel like the strength of the current builds is that we're not required to play cards like IGG and Cabal Ritual.

Basically...I feel like there's some potential here; however, when I see this card I think "Five mana is a lot, but I also don't want to play a ton of Cabal Rituals to make this card good."

[the driver]

Until people start testing it is hard to say with certainty if Dark Petition is better than Burning Wish.

A wish board is also in some ways a double edged sword since often your answers are broader to get more utility (obviously a good thing) but sometimes are as potent as you would want (i.e. Massacre vs Dread of Night). At any rate this is all speculation.

I get the sense that I board out Wishes more often than others so I'm am probably slightly biased on being fine with cutting Wish. My starting point will be this,

17 Lands - include Karakas b/c no wishes
16 Cantrips - The usual
8 Disruption/Protection - inc Chain of Vapor b/c no wishes
Acceleration - 4 LED, 2 Petal, 4 Dark Rit, 1 Rain, 1 Cabal Rit
Business - 4 Doomsday, 1 Dark Petition, 1 Tendrils, 1 Ideas Unbound

Sideboard (very much just thoughts)
Labman or Shelldock + Emmy
Decays + Trop
Contract
Discard
Dread of Nights
Swarms
Mentors / Flusterstorm / Who knows?

Not exactly a massive shift. DP is the 5th Doomsday and I'm guessing that will be enough. Maindeck Tendrils isn't the worst since you have cheaper Brainstorm piles and can go for mini Tendrils more often (great vs Burn and Delver). I want to slowly adjust things to get a good feel how Game 1s feel and how the deck can leverage the card. Also want to see how I feel without the wishboard before I start really messing with the mainboard.

[flrn]

My thoughts about the new Tutor:

If you want to play it, play it in the old German DDFT version, with Cabal Rit, Iggy and Tendrils main. Otherwise, you can't support the 5 Mana that easy. Furthermore, I doubt, that it would be better than the Burning Wish builds, simply because they "cost" the same amount of Mana, but the new Tutor needs a higher starting investment. Also, a Wish board is better atm (at least in my opinion) than a normal one.

The card might be playable in ANT, but even there I doubt it (it has to replace ADN, but the card isn't that great anymore).

Edit says: the best deck would be SPI for it, simply because they lack another tutor.

Greetings,
Kathal

The point about playing the new tutor is, that you can cut red from the deck allowing you to play more basic lands, which will make you less vulnerable against Wasteland, which is just too good against the four colour versions including Burning Wish.

[Kanti]

What does a non-Wish version of Doomsday look like nowadays? Burning Wish is version is easy as I just look up Namida's recent posts, lol.

[Kidbails]

What does a non-Wish version of Doomsday look like nowadays? Burning Wish is version is easy as I just look up Namida's recent posts, lol.

This is the version that I'm testing with Dark Petition. No idea if it's good and the additional green source might be overkill but I think it needs more testing. Sideboard is a hot mess (tendrils could probably be cut, possibly the duress for higher impact cards)

Business
4x Doomsday
2x Dark Petition
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Laboratory Maniac
Cantrips
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Mana
4x Dark Ritual
1x Rain of Filth
1x Cabal Ritual
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
Protection
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
Lands
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
3x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
2x Island
2x Swamp

-Sideboard-
3x Xantid Swarm
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Dread of Night
2x Flusterstorm
1x Cruel Bargain
1x Duress
1x Tendrils of Agony


I've also considered playing a version that drops the green and plays white for silence effects and mentor out of the board. We can also play Karakas if we go white, though I'm considering a sideboard copy as it is. There was brief mention of testing terminus or entreat the angels as well, which I might try. Furthermore, I'd like to see if I can try playing a version that includes counterbalance (which I tried previously to very little success) and daze (which is very old tech). I doubt they'll be better than the discard package that we already play, but only testing will tell.

[Kanti]

So now my question is why wouldn’t you just run Infernal Tutor over Dark Petition? It's combo with LED is much better, and you can blank Daze and/or Spell Pierce.

[Namida]

Infernal Tutor doesn't play well with Doomsday wanting you to have access to cards in your hand, so you're basically required to have a Top in order to win immediately with Infernal Tutor, unless you start moving closer to ANT territory by adding more rituals and Past in Flames/Ill-Gotten Gains. The card combos well with LED, but is far worse at working together with most of the other cards in your deck.

[Kathal]

So now my question is why wouldn’t you just run Infernal Tutor over Dark Petition? It's combo with LED is much better, and you can blank Daze and/or Spell Pierce.

As Namida said, you are getting close to ANT, which is neither good nor bad. If you want to go this route, look at the old German DDFT lists. Here is my old list (by the way, that was before I played with GP, so it is older then 2 years, and I didn't copy the SB, cause completely outdated):


4 Doomsday
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Rain of Filth
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual

4 Silence
3 Orim's Chant
1 Chain of Vapor

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Plains


Furthermore, I think, that something like this could be a good start for DP in DDFT. Although, Kidbails list looks already nice (I wouldn't play the Lab Man in the main and I would play a MD CoV).

Greetings,
Kathal