Originally Posted by drude1
Many thanks drude for your feedback.
I’m going to ask for some more advise.
Suppose I would spend the money on the UG version of the deck I would roughly be looking at (prices +/-):
4x Force of Will = 270 €
4x tropical island = 500 €
4x Show and tell = 200 €
4x misty rainforest = 100 €
If I cut those that could amount to like 3 maybe even 4 candelabras!
So in your respected opinion which deck would be more competitive the mono G with multiple candelabras or UG with 0 – max 1 candle?
On the other hand the UG cards could be used in other decks and the value is more evenly spread out. The candelabras are more or less 12 post dedicated cards right?
To me the monoG version looks less complicated to play, since I’m only getting back into magic this could be a plus for me – unless I’m completely wrong and this isn’t true?
I’m seriously contemplating taking the 12 post to a major tournamet in october and would like to start working on the deck as soon as possible. Since I’m not an experienced player I’m probably going to get rolled over anyway, but would still like that the deck is as competitive as it can be considering the budget limitations.
You could try building a Mono Blue version of this deck with 4 Repeal and the like. No Crop Rotation, obviously, but you might be able to make it work.
I haven't seen a mono U list of the T. Eldrazi. any links that you could share?
That's tough. If you were wanting to get back into magic and Legacy in general I would definitely opt for the u/g version., as FoW is a staple in Legacy and candelabra only goes into 12 post and high tide. Tropical Island is also played in several decks. On the other hand, if you know you want to play 12 post you are definitely going to want at least 1-2 candelabras. I'm playing mono green right now and only play 2 candelabras. Personally, I would say that the decision should be on your style. U/G is more controlling and has a better M/U against combo. Mono green is a little more consistent and I think has better MUs against Miracles, other lands decks (with recurrent wastelands), etc. I've only lost one match against Miracles ever and have never lost the mirror, especially against the U/g version.
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I just started playing the deck recently, the G/W version. I'm wondering if eureka is a good addition to the deck to cheat eldrazi, primeval titan, and ugin into play. I could see it backfiring if your opponent puts a bunch of goyfs, delvers, mentors, etc. into play and alpha strikes you on their turn. However with Ugin in hand you could just wipe the board (and put it in last so hopefully they over commit). Obviously it would be pretty bad against omnitell, sneak and show, and hypergenesis-- but i feel the card is powerful enough to at least warrant some testing as green's version of show and tell. I'm thinking of trying 2, maybe 3 if I like it enough. Does anybody have good experiences with the card?
Another card I've considered is defense of the heart. It would be good in creature matchups to cheat 2 fatties into play. It could even be played kind of like oath with forbidden orchard. However, giving your opponents more tools to kill you is obviously not in your interest unless you have a defense of the heart. Even without orchard, I could see it being decent if you sandbag it until they play 3 creatures and then you play it. So they would be forced to use a removal spell on one of their own creatures or they die to whatever you fetch up. It's also not great in combo matchups, but not many of your maindeck cards are anyway in g/w so it doesn't really matter. Maybe there's too many problems with the card, but it's something to think about.
Here's my list right now, any suggestions or feedback are welcome.
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Primeval Titan
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
3 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Explore
4 Crop Rotation
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Moment's Peace
2 Exploration
3 Ancient Stirrings
2 Eureka
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Sacred Ground
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
I got called a traitor for not playing 12 post at today's SCG Baltimore premier IQ. I feel like Emrakul was laughing at me on the sidelines. Someone please motivate me to rebuild my favorite deck. I didn't see a single omniscience today. :-/
You didn't see a single Omniscience today.
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
If you didn't see a single omniscience, then why isn't it already resleeved
Out of curiosity, why Explore over say Expedition Map?
Hey guys, regarding my budget problems, i haven't seriously considered going GW before. the duals and fetches are much more price friendly. Is the GW post more competitive than the mono G variant?
I'm moving away from blue for obvious budget restraints, maybe at a later time when i'll be willing to invest more money into this.
The only reason I use GW is because it opens up some interesting sideboard possibilities, such as Gadook Teeg. But the deck I'm using (some 2-3 pages back) is fundamentally mono-G, with a sprinkle of W for sideboard stuff.
Your record at that Premiere IQ should be motivation enough to go back to 12post!
I went 4-3-1 at the Baltimore Premier IQ with a G(w) build, losing to High Tide, Deadguy Ale (after a slog of 10 turns playing off the top and finding absolutely nothing of relevance), and arriving late for round 1. I drew against Grixis Tezzeret in what would have been a definite win if not for a grievous mental lapse on my part, and defeated Burn, more Burn, Lands, and Esper Deathblade. The list:
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
4 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah, Eye of Ugin, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm, Khalni Garden, Thespian's Stage, Dark Depths, Cavern of Souls
4 Primeval Titan
2 Ugin
1 Emrakul, Ulamog, Kozilek, Oracle of Mul Daya, Magus of the Candelabra
4 Green Sun's Zenith, Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top, Expedition Map, Pithing Needle
2 Explore, Moment's Peace
1 Oblivion Stone
Sideboard:
3 Thorn of Amethyst, Krosan Grip
2 Sacred Ground, Rest in Peace
1 Cavern of Souls, Pithing Needle, All is Dust, Gaddock Teeg, Reclamation Sage
My thoughts and observations:
1) I tried Khalni Garden over Dryad Arbor despite having GSZ since the Garden plays a similar role of blocker/edict protection but without negating a land drop, and the only times I ever GSZed for Arbor were rare occasions on turn 1 with a either a second Zenith or a Crop Rotation to turn the Arbor into something useful. I also wanted another ETB trigger with which to gain priority and Grip an Omniscience after S&T, though that never came up. What did come up was using a Titan to get Vesuva copying a garden already in play to save the Titan from Liliana. I don't think I'll go back to playing Arbor.
2) I cut one Top and one Map for two Explores after seeing them recommended in this thread. I wasn't as impressed as I wanted to be, but to be fair I didn't see them often enough to draw a solid conclusion. Most of the time the additional land was of little consequence, but I think that was a fluke resulting from the compositions of my hands at the time. I think I'll keep the two for now. I didn't miss the fourth Map but would have liked the fourth Top back...
3) ...because I ended up hoping for good topdecks more often than I'd like. I had also wanted to try out Ancient Stirrings but they competed with GSZ in terms of both deck space and logistics, since Stirrings doesn't like green creatures and Zenith doesn't like colorless things. From this thread it also seemed that the Stirrings versions had more green mana sources than I did (more on this shortly) and I wasn't sure I could cast an early Stirrings reliably. In retrospect that would not have been a problem, and I would rather have been able to dig down five cards rather than tread water for several turns. I kept the Zeniths because I didn't want to try too many experiments in one tournament and because they enable...
4) ...Magus of the Candelabra. About 1/500th the price of actual Candelabra but far more than 1/500th as good, especially with GSZ. It is vulnerable to removal, but I found that being able to Zenith it up when the coast is clear mitigates that problem and helps to speed up against combo. Zenith into Magus almost got me to Emrakul against High Tide, for instance. And it safely blocks 1/x's.
5) Stage/Depths. The only reasonable way to add more green sources was to cut this combo, which I am still reluctant to do because: a) It allows Primeval Titan to directly find a win, b) it provides a way to win (somewhat) quickly, and c) Shardless BUG has a hard time with Marit Lage and I've found that matchup troublesome otherwise, basically because whatever I don't name with Pithing Needle wrecks me while a Tarmogoyf smashes in. This is in fact why I have a fourth needle in the sideboard. Could someone share a successful approach to this matchup that doesn't require Show and Tell?
6) 3 Krosan Grip / 1 Reclamation Sage. I put these in the sideboard for Omnitell which I never faced. After having 3 people play Ensnaring Bridge against me (and another who I think had it but didn't draw it), I've moved to a 2/2 split to have an additional Zenith target to solve that problem (since bridges came out of Burn and Tezzeret which have other cards I might need to destroy first, e.g. Sulfuric Vortex and Chalice).
7) No Leyline of Sanctity. I found that blue combo could handle Leylines before I could win, at which point they basically accomplished nothing. Leyline plus Thorn seemed good enough (in my admittedly sparse experience) but then 7-8 sideboard slots are used up which was too many given that the cards would only matter if two or more showed up in my opening hand. Against Burn, Ugin/Titan with Glacial Chasm gyrations were enough. I was skeptical that the matchup could be won without Leyline but I am now definitely convinced.
8) Has anyone tried Titania, Protector of Argoth? It seems best in slower matchups where we're already favored and don't need it, but after having to discard Eye to Liliana and ultimately lose because of it I wouldn't mind a Zenith bullet that recurs a land. I can envision it doing work against, say, BUG Delver since the elementals kill the typical Tarmogoyf and it makes Wasteland awkward.
9) At least one more maindeck piece of mass removal is in order, assuming no Ancient Stirrings. Probably the All is Dust from the sideboard since it doesn't blow up my needles but does remove opposing Marit Lages, and replacing one of the Moment's Peaces which were underwhelming all day although I played against zero aggro decks. I'm also considering Steel Hellkite since Eye can find it and it blocks fliers. Has anyone tried the Hellkite?
Sorry if this seems long-winded. I don't get to play much Legacy so I make a point to examine thoroughly the games I do play, and I wanted to put all my thoughts in one place where someone else might find them helpful. Besides, why not Post?
interesting post k_omega. Here my thoughts:
1) Garden could be a valid choice, I agree with your considerations. I could try in my deck in effect......dryad is good if you have at least 3 gsz, otherwise it lose a lot.
2)I totally agree. I had 4 explore, I think is too much. I removed one of them and put a maze of ith, a singleton very usefull in most of games (like bojuka or tabernacle)
3)Mixing cards for me is always a good idea. Better have a multiplity of choices. both of them (stirrings and GSZ) are very good for this deck. At the moment I have 2 gsz and 4 stirrings. I see GSZ like a tutor for titan, maybe I will drop to 1 if I remove dryad.
4) oh man, magus. I REALLY thought a lot about it.....good synergy with gsz and natural order. But I bought a real candelabra XD. It's very weak (sword to plowshares, liliana, decay, lightning bolt, and everything hits a creature in general.....) and with summoning sickness. Yes, for its price is a good choice, but trying to imitate a real candelabra is not the best option. Maybe an amulet of vigor is best in this case than magus (no synergy with gsz, but with stirrings).
5) I removed them a lot of time ago. I really don't consider them a quick combo, you need 2 mana and OTHER 2 land to "win", giving the opponente the time to get a sword to plowshares, liliana, jace, karakas, or simply win in case of combo deck. It is usefull only against burn (if it has slow hand) or shardless (if it doesn't see wasteland or liliana......quite difficult). It doesn't worth 2 slot. Against shardless I take from sideboard 1 needle (reaching 4, against liliana and wasteland), 1 sacred ground, 2 rip (tarmo and shaman useless if it enters) and 1 obstinate baloth (very very usefull.....against liliana is a free creature and 4 life, and a 4/4 that can manage tarmo).
6) I agree, good choices.
7) I absolutely agree, they are very strong, but only if opening hand. A big price, since they take 4 slot in sideboard.....too much.
8) I don't like it. If game goes long, we are safe. Our problems is early game. What do you remove from your mainlist for Titania?
9) yes, mass removal is our way to survive the first turns. I don't like all is dust, it cost too much, oblivion stone is better. And it removes ALL, good also against mud. The only "problem" is that oblivion can be abrutpdacayed, ok..... If you really like all is dust, I think Ugin is better. Indeed, I have both stone and ugin: fast and slow removal ;).
Confused about the point above.
I always assumed the Dryads were ramp, not blockers. Is their primary function to be surprise blockers?
(If that is the case then I can see how the Kahlni Gardens would work well)
Titania is very good. If you expect a lot of wastelands the card is great, assuming you can cast it. Also, if you add a zuran orb in SB, you can one shot most combo decks.
I know this sounds kind of out-there, but what if the mono-green version ran Courser of Kruphix? Early stall, life gain, and "acceleration" into lands? I've seen it played in the Sylvan Stompy deck to extremely good effect and it seems like it *might* fit the game-plan here too.
I've tried it and found pretty hard to get double green soon enough to cast it, without compromising the overall mana strategy in the following turns. But that was me.
hmmm. That is interesting.
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