Sylvan Library provides exceptional card filter and can produce overwhelming card advantage completely on command.Originally Posted by bruizar
Dark Confidant has a relevant set of legs and produces a continuous stream card advantage for every turn that he's allowed to live.
Jace is a Merfolk Looter that flips into a dumpy planeswalker that can be completely ignored.
Careful, Jellydonut.
Remember how *down* you were on Treasure Cruise and Dig through Time when they were spoiled? And how skeptical you were of Jace, the Mind Sculptor during Worldwake spoiler season?
Well, for what its worth, my speculation so far paid 4 years of university tuition and many vacations thus far :-)
Baller. You could scrub of every tournament from here until forever and you'd still be winning at this game. Well done.
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
Taurean Mauler 4 lyfe, man.
Thanks :D This game has been rather generous to me.
Yeah i think Jace will prove to be the best planeswalker of the bunch, again. Consider it a 2 mana planeswalker that has to use a +3 (draw/discard) as its first ability, then get 5 loyalty and can flashback for -3, give -2/-0 for +1 , and has an ultimate that sucks but w/e. Tbh if his +1 ability was only slightly better, i'd say he WILL get played in legacy. As it is, the -2-0 ability seems a bit too irrilevant, but maybe i'm underestimating him. Ironically, i think jace will prove better in older formats because the lower mana cost is much more crucial there, and getting 5 cards in the grave is much easier.
EDIT: forgot the flashback is basically sorcery speed... that make it significantly worse.
Agreed!
If you have to compare a card to snapcastermage, you talk about a tier 1 card!
How is looting irrelevant? It feels like a mini cantrip, synergies with Top and helps to fill your gy.
How can you not flip him?
+1 is weak, the ulti is useless.
The starting loyalty 5 is great!
-3 has his pros and cons (prolly more cons). Now that you flipped him its 0 mana instead of 1U. But you cant counter anything so you basically have to stick with removals and cantrips...
He is really hard to evaluate (at least for me) ill just play some scenarios:
Who's better in the early game? If you dont have anything to do on turn 2, Jace is a legit drop and Snappy not. Thats a + for Jace but you really should have something to do, like play your counterbalance/decay something or whatever just do what your deck does...
Midgame? Snapcaster rocks the midgame! He is just faster, more flexible, less predictable etc... Snappy is a trick that helps you turn the game into your direction.
Whats the better topdeck? Snappy "does something" now. Jaces does nothing immediately . If you are under pressure you really want the snapy to do "something". On an even /slightly unfavourable board (lets say both players are in topdeck mode but a tarmo beats you) jace might be better. You let tarmo hit you for another turn, fix your next draw with the loot - flip - flashback your removal. A PW on an empty board should be better than a 2/1 vanilla.
tl;dr He might be ok!
“Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
lategame i play the real jace, thanks.
Speculation on Legacy playables seems bad. Modern seems to drive the price of new cards. Liliana would be rather affordable if it was banned like JTMS. I think that's good news for us (Legacy players) since it helps keep prices reasonable with the exception of our file cabinet of $100+ staples (duals, FOW, LED, etc.).
It's Modern Pro Tour season so the prices are higher than normal right now. Everything will calm down soon.
Legacy doesn't have this because it is not a Tour played format. God help us if it was. I don't actually know a single local Legacy player trying to get on the Pro Tour anyway so it's likely best this way.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Not really too sure about Jace 6.0.
His planeswalker side looks nice, especially the high starting loyalty and the minus three ability. It's especially nice how the Recoup effect doesn't cost mana, so to speak, unlike Snappy who essentially "adds two" to the cost of every spell flashed back. Instants/Sorceries with CMCs of 2-4 can actually be recurred on a regular basis with this.
That said, his creature side blows. He's a 0/2, Legendary looter for 1U. He doesn't have haste, he dies to everything, he can't be a threat, and he can't block for crap. If he was a 0/3, a 1/2, or even a 2/1 (this is probably a little too OP) his critter side would be a lot better. As it stands now, you have to untap with him after having a fortuitous first two turns to get him online early. As a topdeck, he's seems pretty awful, given that he barely impacts the board and isn't ready for business until a turn later.
I predict next to zero, non-budget play in Modern, though Legacy may be a bit kinder to him because less decks are stuffed full of critter extermination spells like many (non-combo) Modern decks are. He might actually stand a chance of surviving instead of eating an Electrolyze or Kolaghan's Command. Zero idea of his Standard playability.
So I'm not entirely certain if he's a solid speculation target.
Now this guy...
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...8506900425.jpg
...looks like guaranteed fun, even if he's destined to be mostly a 1-of miser or sideboard material.Harbinger of the Tides UU
Creature - Merfolk Wizard R
You may cast Harbinger if the Tides as though it had flash if you pay 2 more to cast it
When Harbinger of the Tides enters the battlefield, you may return target tapped creature an opponent controls to its owner's hand.
2/2
Also, screw Kytheon's Irregulars, a card that stands no chance of seeing serious constructed play (outside of hypercasual decks), yet will utterly ruin tons of Limited games in a totally unfun way. Why do these cards exist again?
Modern does affect prices greatly, but remember cards like liliana were already expensive before modern took off. Legacy has a big influence on prices still. The best speculation targets are post rotation foil multiformat staples, like abrupt decay.
As mentioned before, the -3 will be useful for bigger spells than snapcaster because the mana is already paid. I think that jace plays a control role whereas snapcaster mage plays more of a surprise/value trick, like vendillion clique and bloodbraid elf.
- Higher CC
- Double loot
- More irrelevant abilities (for legacy)
- Doesn't protect itself
- Less abilities
- not legal in modern
- Yet more expensive than jace
- Foil price is due to Vintage (Dead format, yet still has impact)
My standard knowledge is limited, but I think that Jace, Vryn's Prodigy + Ojutai's Command might be a thing. In those colors you can also play Narset Transcendent essentially doubling the output of your spells between flashback and rebound. Both start with extremely high loyalty too, but again I'm not a limited player.Product Availability
Available items: 297
From (EX+): 23,85 €
Price Trend: 29,73 €
Available foils: 20
Foils from: 244,90 €
Can someone check if Moonmist works?
Last edited by bruizar; 06-27-2015 at 04:25 AM.
They tried that. Didn't go over so well.
To me, Jace is like a cantrip. He doesn't do anything amazing, but accrues small advantages, and he only costs 2 mana. I don't think his +1 is as bad as people think it is, it can buy a ton of time against things like delver, clique and other non aggro beats. For 2 mana he seems like a pretty good tool that helps control stabilize, he isn't super threatening like confidant, he 'nickles and dimes' advantages, which just might be good enough in a format like modern, where games are longer, and casting costs are higher.
I would say he is more like confidant than snapcaster, but the thing is confidant gives you an extra card a turn, I don't think Jace gives you that much value a turn.
But then again, note how bad Tibalt is for 2 mana, and how Jace is blue, is more splashable, and R&D can't help but print strong blue cards.
Dack's 1st and 3rd abilities are better than Jace's respective ones in a vacuum, and his 2nd ability has a lot of incidental uses. It can even force 2CC+ spells through CounterTop. I really like this guy. Jace is not bad but I think this comparison isn't fair.
It works, if you want to kill your opponent's Jace.Can someone check if Moonmist works?
Planeswalkers enter the battlefield with loyalty counters equal to the starting loyalty. If he's transformed without leaving the battlefield, he'll be a planeswalker with zero loyalty counters, and be placed in the graveyard due to state-based effects.
T: Draw a card, and discard a card. If you have 5 or more cards in your graveyard, sacrifice this. If you do, destroy target Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
I agree that the comparison to Dack Fayden isn't fair. I pointed out Dack Fayden because he has a vaguely similar ability and isn't driven by modern / standard prices. Phonics explained rather well the reasons why I'm bullish about Jace. Jace sticks incremental CA and card quality, Snapcaster doesn't stick.
Like you said: Ensnaring Bridge, etc.
Also, and I'm way out of the loop with current Legacy decklists, but it can be Collected Company'd, so that may be relevant.
I think it's more relevant for Modern, where the option to do unfair things is really curtailed. No Cradle, no Glimpse, and no GSZ means Elves has to play a MUCH less exponential game.
I'm actually kind of curious about the 2/2 for 2 that poops out an elf token. Getting a +2 count on your elves for 2 mana, and can be re-used with Wirewood Symbiote, Cloudstone Curio, etc can do some fun and silly things with Heritage Druid. For example, the Nettle Sentinel + Heritage Druid + Glimpse of Nature is pretty key to elves in Legacy, yes? Well, now we can replace that with Cloudstone Curio and have a combo option similar to Splinter Twin.
The flip walkers being non-optional flips really kills most of them for me. If you could choose to, or not, Jace would be way better. As it is, there are times you really want to dig but you're gonna flip him immediately and then he's gonna sit there and do not much before dying.
Well, how fast will he actually die? If you flip him and +1, you send him to 6 loyalty. That means your opponent needs to hit Jace Telepath Unbound for 8. If your opponent can deal 8 damage he's not going for Jace Telepath Unbound, he's going for your face and you'll be happy that you can stop the bleeding with the +1 until you can flashback something like Firespout. I mention Firespout because it goes well with Punishing Fire and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, but it could be any sweeper given that the mana cost is so perfectly splashable. Even flashbacking a Terminus is not that far-fetched because you already paid for Jace.
Retribution of the Meek, Perish/Nature's Ruin/Virtue's Ruin/Damnation, Supreme Verdict are all fine targets. But other cards like like Hymn to Tourach, Abrupt Decay, Swords to Plowshares or Dig Through Time should not be forgotten. Some of those are cards that become prohibitively expensive with Snapcaster Mage but not with Jace.
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