My mistake there regarding cutting Plains. Last few times that I've played against MUD locally was against lists not running Wasteland.
I guess you've played against the Big Mana MUD that plays stuff like Ugin etc?Originally Posted by presquepartout
Also really like alpha's list. Pretty close to mine (-1 Clique, -1 Spell Pierce, +1 Spell Snare, +1 Snapcaster Mage).
I can see that. But why not keep in 2 CB so that if you see it and your opponent hasn't gotten much on the bird because of your counterspells? It's safe to assume by that point you have a Top on the field, and can find your 3 drops to slow them down. We don't have enough counterspells to answer all their threats, so being able to get even just one or 2 with CB is infinite value.
Because your sideboard has 8 cards which are guaranteed to impact the game more than any number of Counterbalances: Blood Moon, Containment Priest, Moat, Pithing Needle, 2 Vendilion Clique, Venser, and Wear//Tear.
CB does not actually do anything. Combined with it being a matchup where your mana is typically taxed and there's no guarantee your tops will even be functional.
You only need to counter things which immediately impact the game. You run enough removal that you allow a lot of their shit to resolve and just plow/terminus it away. Hard cast sundering titan is probably the only creature you can't let resolve. Beyond that you worry about chalice/sphere effects early game unless you can already play around them, and non-removable bombs late game.
As alphastryk pointed out already, they are a better late game deck, so you don't want to twiddle your thumbs.
Gegengewicht, Weissagekreisel - Du bist dran.
Thanks for the indepth explanation. The next time I play MUD I'll try bringing in my creatures. Didn't realize Venser could be effective here. I don't give him enough love. I also keep forgetting that they don't really run creature removal.
MUD is a MU where Venser is at its best, again. He does anything you want to do. Opponent resolved a Chalice on 1 and you have 4 cmc1 cards in your hand? Bounce Chalice eot and have 1 turn to play all your cards. Venser is your only out to an uncounterable Sundering Titan, which is really backbreaking. If you have a Karakas you can win much time bouncing his 8 mana spells every time, until you clique it away or your opponent simply dies from venser hits + ancient tombs. You can block a heavy creature, bounce Venser and return an other attacking creature back to your opponents hand. I know that everybody knows this function, but in the MUD matchup it is even better than in other matchups, because their creatures alwas cost 4 or more mana. If your opponent resolved an Ugin/Karn because you couldn't counter it at that moment, you can bounce it at his eot and maybe counter it on his next turn, if he tries to replay. If he tries to get a giant mana base with Posts you can sometimes (with a Karakas) try to bounce a cloudpost each turn, what also should give you time. And after all, he is a clock. Against MUD you don't have to make that much damage because of their Tombs, so a Venser really gets them in trouble. In this Matchup I would really board in all Vensers I have in my 75.
Enough to Venser, one common thing on the MUD Matchup. If you are on Ponder build, consider boarding out Ponder, especially on the draw. He has Chalice and Trinisphere which could make your Ponders really bad. So when I play Ponder Build, I am personally going, depending on what I want to bring in and want to bring out, down to 2 Ponder on the play and to 0-1 Ponder on the draw. Even without Ponder you are much more consistent than MUD
Regards
Freundla
I quote this after I have played one entire year VS MUD.MUD is a MU where Venser is at its best, again. He does anything you want to do. Opponent resolved a Chalice on 1 and you have 4 cmc1 cards in your hand? Bounce Chalice eot and have 1 turn to play all your cards. Venser is your only out to an uncounterable Sundering Titan, which is really backbreaking. If you have a Karakas you can win much time bouncing his 8 mana spells every time, until you clique it away or your opponent simply dies from venser hits + ancient tombs. You can block a heavy creature, bounce Venser and return an other attacking creature back to your opponents hand. I know that everybody knows this function, but in the MUD matchup it is even better than in other matchups, because their creatures alwas cost 4 or more mana. If your opponent resolved an Ugin/Karn because you couldn't counter it at that moment, you can bounce it at his eot and maybe counter it on his next turn, if he tries to replay. If he tries to get a giant mana base with Posts you can sometimes (with a Karakas) try to bounce a cloudpost each turn, what also should give you time. And after all, he is a clock. Against MUD you don't have to make that much damage because of their Tombs, so a Venser really gets them in trouble. In this Matchup I would really board in all Vensers I have in my 75.
Enough to Venser, one common thing on the MUD Matchup. If you are on Ponder build, consider boarding out Ponder, especially on the draw. He has Chalice and Trinisphere which could make your Ponders really bad. So when I play Ponder Build, I am personally going, depending on what I want to bring in and want to bring out, down to 2 Ponder on the play and to 0-1 Ponder on the draw. Even without Ponder you are much more consistent than MUD
Regards
Freundla
Yeah, I had been playing against this version recently.
Hi everyone,
Just a little post about a legacy tournament at my LGS (12 players), the meta was the following:
-1 miracle (me)
-1 canadian threshold
-1 Ur delver
-1 Burn
-1 UB reanimator
-1 Lands
-1 Ant
-1 Infect
-1 Dredge
-1 4c Delver
-2 Omnitell (mono u)
My list is the following:
4 Flooded strand
3 polluted delta
1 scalding tarn
1 arid mesa
2 tundra
1 mystic gate
2 volcanic island
4 island
2 plains
4 sensei divining top
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 swords to plownshares
2 pyroblast
4 counterbalance
2 snapcaster mage
1 counterspell
2 entreat the angels
4 force of will
2 jace, the mind sculptor
4 terminus
3 dig through time
SB
1 Blood moon
1 relic of progenitus
1 cavern of souls
1 ethersworn canonist
1 wear//tear
2 vendilion clique
2 rest in peace
2 red elemental blast
1 flusterstorm
1 conteinment priest
2 monastery mentor
I tried for the first time monestery mentor, conteinment priest and cavern of souls sb (obviously didn't find them, so I can't judge them yet)...cavern of souls was included because this time, my sideboard was more creature-ish...normally I play a 2nd flusterstorm and a Council Judgement (instead of Conteinment priest) but I thought the meta was too fast/combo for it...also I'm trying a 20 lands miracle so I dislike 1WW.
Turn 1: Led Dredge 2-0 (1-0-0)
First game was pretty grindy, pyroblast his turn 1 play but he has led and faithless loothing...some swords, terminus and I stabilize with jace until a terminus plus entreat for 5 in my turn.
Sb in: 2 rip, 1 fluster, 1 relic of progenitus, 2 reb, 1 conteinment priest
Sb out: 4 cb, 1 counterspell , 1 plains
He mull to 5 and I force his led...followed by a relic on my turn...he scoop
Turn 2: infect 1-1 (1-0-1)
I just remove with sword, and terminus every creature (while working around daze )...after 2 dig i put some pression with snapcaster and he die after some turns
Sb in: 1 reb, 2 vendilion clique, 1 flusterstorm, 1 blood moon, 1 wear//tear
Sb out: 2 jace, 1 dig, 2 entreat, 1 plains
I remove every creature until he play a inkmoth...i tried to gain tempo with clique for an answer (top in play) but didn t find it...game 3 not played for time problems
Turn 3: Canadian 2-0 (2-0-1)
He try to pressure me with 2 mongoose, he stifle my first terminus but I can force in a counterbalance followed by a jace that set a terminus on top...
Sb in: 1 fluster, 2 v.clique, 2 rip, 1 wear//tear, 1 relic of progenitus, 1 blood moon
Sb out: 4 force, 2 jace, 1 entreath, 1 dig, 1 counterspell, 1 pyroblast
He krosan grip my top but I land a rip (goyf and mongoose in play)...sometimes later I miracle entreat for 2 on my turn and won with it
Turn 4 : 4c delver 0-0 (2-0-2)
I m in the top 4
Top4: 4c delver 2-0 (3-0-2)
I play more aggressive this game...Pyroblast his turn 1 delver (still working around daze), swords his pyromancer and let him counter somethings...with 1 card in hand (he has 1) I resolve a dig and grab a force with a pitch that allow me to counter his tnn...The game end some turn later thanks to counterbalance and jace.
Sb in: 1 fluster, 1 blood moon, 2 rip, 2 vendilion, 1 wear//tear
Sb out:4 fow, 1 dig, 1 counterspell, 1 jace
He doesn t present any threat so I just make my hand better until a blood moon followed by a terminus close the game
Final: omnitell 2-1 (4-0-2)
He start with boseiju (I cry inside)...i try my best to sculpt my hand and this allow me to destroy his omniscience...He resolve 3 dig, 1 cunning wish and other things while I put him down to 3...he resolve ashow and tell for omniscience and emrakul...gg
Sb in: 1 flusterstorm, 2 reb, 2 rip, 2 vendilion,1 wear//tear,1 canonist, 1 relic, 1 cavern of souls
Sb out: 1 plains, 2 entreat, 4 swords, 2 terminus, 2 jace
We scuplt our hand until he find boseiju...he cast show and tell and I reveal canonist...I reb his omniscience, reb another show and tell the turn after and won by damage of snap and canonist.
Same...but the boseiju came down early...I just scuplt my hand and beat him down with snapcaster...he resolve a show and tell and I reveal rip...with my hand full of counter I destroy his omniscience while he resolve a dig but I win some turns later.
20 lands miracle seems really good and 3 dig seems fine in this heavy blue meta.
Is the RIP against Omnitell to prevent him from being able to delve DTT? How has it worked so far?
Yeah, the only time I resolved rest in peace, I felt that the game was a lot easier (the pressure of an end of turn/boeijued dig is unbelievable imo)...I actually prefer relic of progenitus in this match up
I've tried both Rest in Peace and Relic in this matchup and I also felt that Relic was better. Costing 1 mana lets you hold up more resistance while getting it out and I also didn't like that RIP turned off my own Dig Through Time and Snapcaster Mage. In a matchup where RIP straight up wins the game that's fine, but the Omnitell games can drag a bit and you want all your cards to be able to provide value throughout.
I actually dislike a lot dig through time in the omnitell match up...every time I cast it, the effort to make him resolve is too heavy...I just play some dig for counterbalance and usually I just cast them for remove a counter from their hand (not sure if it is the right strategy).
Against certain matchups, namely combo, it's definitely correct to cast spells like CB and DTT in order to bait out a counter. The problem with doing this against Omnitell is that they have so many counters, and often they won't just spend them because they know they can just wait for a Boseiju against us and save the counters to protect their Omniscience.
But I agree with DTT being kind of meh in this matchup because while their combo is slower than most others, it's harder to use a DTT against them because of the aforementioned reason, and often times they're half a turn faster than DTT.
My strategy so far against Omnitell, with varying success depending on the pilot I'm up against, is to counter cantrips when possible for 2.5 reasons: 1) prevent them from digging, 2) decrease their hand size, and 2.5) they're going to do all they can to protect their combo and we can't really fight a counterwar over that, so if we counter a cantrip here and there, it prevents them from digging for protection and/or gas. It's much easier to predict what they have in their hand if they cast SnT with 3 remaining cards than 5. Then you can plan your response accordingly.
This is what have i done against Omnitell to some success, for games which go longer and when they have an active Boseiju.
1) Allow Show and Tell to resolve. (not much choice here)
2) Drop a Counterbalance.
3) Red Blast their Omniscience in respond to their first spell. Usually a Cunning Wish or Dig Through Time
4) Fight over the Red Blast.
Looking at Baltimore Legacy Miracles players' lists,
All of them ran some number of Ponders, Liberati is the only player ran 2.
All of them ran 1 Karakas, except BBD.
All of them were cutting corner using weaker graveyard hate in the SB, except Liberati with 2 RiP.
The MD removal package in all the lists:
Red Blast - StP - Council's
0 - 4 - 1 BBD
1 - 3 - 1 Long
1 - 4 - 1 Liberati
0 - 3 - 1 Hawker
Number of Cavern of souls: 0.
cantrip/flashbackable Priest!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/ma...owed-moonlight
Do we like it? Considered that it has the very same CC and speed of Priest, we probably prefer the original one..
Worth noting it also hits tokens, unlike Priest. I see no reason to switch, the continuous effect and the clock matter way too much.
I went 4-1-1 (beat aeon bridge, lost to infect, beat uwr painter, beat burn, beat enchantress, drew into top8) but then lost in top8 of a 34-man IQ yesterday using the same list I posted a bit ago. I lost to D&T in top8, and I felt like I maybe wanted one more piece of creature removal, but I also got fairly unlucky with my draws. Don't think I'll be making any changes just yet.
Sorry for asking, can you tell me how you usually side versus infect? It is a match up that I don't usually play against and I'm a bit concerned about my sideboard plan.
I haven't played it either but I can't imagine bringing in anything less than REBs, Canonist, and VClique/Venser. Perhaps Pithing Needle to keep that pesky land down.
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