Daze Miracles won
The other guy basically threw G1 when he let his opponent's CB resolve even though he had a FoW in hand. He later tried to FoW Top (LOL) and got blown out by Daze. I believe he also had the opportunity to play his own CB on turn 2 (he went first) and decided to DRAW WITH TOP ON OPPONENT'S END STEP WITH 1 LAND IN PLAY.
Guess i was dead wrong about miracles not beig the top deck ehehehe
Still, this got to be the worst legacy gp ever right? The few times i watched the stream i noticed some extreme mistakes. Fow to flusterstorm, entreat at end of your own turn... at the final rounds of day1 lol. And thats just the hardcore fuckups, i wonder how efficient the overall playing was.
this makes totally sense.
Pyroblast is everywhere so blue permanents (apart those who can protect themselves, Counterbalance and Legendary creatures with Karakas) are as good as dead.
Look at Jace: +2 and -12 ability are not to be even considered. So down to 1 or 0.
in a 18-19 lands meta, also, Wasteland and Stifle must have been such a house.. I expected BUG to be a much bigger deal.
Probably not very good. It seems like a lot of the Miracles players just picked up the deck in the past month and did minimal testing and won because they lucksacked. Miracles as a pretty high floor, but the learning curve is pretty steep, and it has a decently high ceiling. It's not wrong to think that a lot of the newer players just did what they thought was correct and it ended up working for them.Originally Posted by Ocean
And that's exactly when bannings need to start taking place - when players mostly unfamiliar with the format pick up a deck and just steamroll the competition even while making tons of mistakes. The last time I saw this was when outsiders to Legacy just starting picking up Survival decks before it got banned, and still filled up the top8s of big tournaments despite having little to no experience with the decks or even the format.
I've not seen every match, but I think he played better than the majority of the people in this thread. And the level of skill here is above average.
A few years ago there was this guy ( forgot his name, but he got banned because of cheating), who won 2 SCG Standard Opens with Faeries in a row and he made a ton of mistakes with it (f.ex boarding out Cryptic Command in the mirror etc.). And Faeries never got banned in Standard. This game is not chess, it is like Poker, you can do your best to decrease your chances of winning, but you might still win if you are lucky.
So that does not say anything about the power of a deck.
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Who are you guys referring to? Olivier Ruel played very well, although not perfectly. I didn't stay to watch the entire top 8 though, because I stayed up until 8:00 am local time to watch the entire tournament, but I thought the day 2 matches were generally well played (with a couple of minor mistakes that are too be expected even of the best players).
Oliver Ruel is a Hall of Fame member with (now) 28 GP top 8s.
He is, without question, one of the best players at any given grand prix he attends.
I was also confused at first, when Olivier Ruel drew with Top in response to CB, just to replay two tops next turn... So I re-watched that part of the game. Turns out he was trying to draw a blue card with his Top, to FoW the CB, since he had no blue cards in hand. Knowing this, his plays makes a lot more sense.Daze Miracles won
The other guy basically threw G1 when he let his opponent's CB resolve even though he had a FoW in hand. He later tried to FoW Top (LOL) and got blown out by Daze. I believe he also had the opportunity to play his own CB on turn 2 (he went first) and decided to DRAW WITH TOP ON OPPONENT'S END STEP WITH 1 LAND IN PLAY.
Also, I know Einherjer wrote in an article that FoWing Top is an horrible play. But you should use some common sense: it might be a good idea to FoW a Top if your opponent already has CB. If you don't, your opponent assembles the soft-lock, and you might as well concede...
Edit: it was awesome when Claudio tricked Olivier into playing Brainstorm into his CB. Claudio fetches with CB + Top + Snapcaster on the board. Olivier casts StP on Snapcaster (forcing Claudio to shuffle away his Top if he doesn't have a 1-drop in the top 3 cards of his library). Claudio says "ok, stp resolves". Olivier thinks the coast is clear, and casts a Brainstorm. Claudio casually reveals a 1-drop on top.
Claudio definitely deserved that win, even if I don't agree with Daze in his deck.
I dunno, those Dazes were pretty crucial for him in at least the finals match. He tapped out several times and was still able to accrue an advantage in terms of cards and board presence.
Daze is a concession to decks that seek to tap out often in the earlier turns. However, the going behind on land drops not worth the chance that an opponent doesn't play around it. Spell Pierce is a better counterspell than Daze for our decks most of the time anyway.
The only benefit I can see for running Daze is to fill up the 2-drop slot, but we have 2-3 Snaps, 4 CB, and 1-2 Counterspell already.
Claudio's list basically MUST plat dazes for various reasons: CB into Top with Daze backup is backbreaking in a non control deck... He's just trying to steal the tempo of this game and stick mentor for 2 turns, and with Mentor in play those dazes aren't even dead cards, they could still generate a token and a prowess trigger, add that he doesn't play any Entreat or Jace so is not as mana hungry as normal miracles are, Legacy is also a format dominated by 2 drop and if the opponenet raps out on turn 2 or 3 to respond to mentor that dazes let mentor resolve or ptotect it from various plays that tries to get back in game as opponent slams turn 4 hace to viunce mentor.
However in my opinion in thus decklist maybe you have 1 flexible slot Md.
Greetings to Claudio, the first legacy Grand Prix champion that knows what a gym is
Claudio was very good prepared for this tournament, so congrats to him, long and hard testing on cockatrice(B88) vs random opponents repaid.
It was stupid hot on day one with a broken AC, think one even got picked up with ambulanse. So if ppl did mistakes in round 8-9 i totally gets it
You're, as usual, talking out your ass.
Daze is EXCELLENT when your plan is Mentor.
Sooooo, back from GP Lille \o/
It was an amazing weekend, very well organized. The only downside was really that it was absolutly insane hot on friday and saturday. Organizers were puttung up water fountains as the AC was broken.
I'd actually write a tournament report, but I've played so many matches this weekend that I actually don't know what happend anymore. So instead there's a list and a breakdown of matches with maybe one or two sentences if I remember something.
So first, this is what I played for the friday trials (i bought infinite trials) and the GP itself:
„Floink too stronk!”
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
[20 Lands]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
[02 Planeswalkers]
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
[04 Artifacts]
4 Counterbalance
[04 Enchantments]
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
[06 Creatures]
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Swords to Plowshares
[15 Instants]
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
[09 Sorceries]
[60 cards maindeck]
Sideboard:
1 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Meddling Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
[15 cards sideboard]
[75 cards total]
As you can see, I'm clearly very paranoid of Omnitell. That is due to online testing, I lost quite a large amount of games because of the most stupid reasons. Spoiler: Never played a match against Omnitell the whole weekend.
Trial 1:
Imperial Painter: 2-1
G1 is fairly uneventfull, G2 he gets Grindstone down, plays a Painter with one mana open. I have Disenchant on top that I'd rather fight over with FoW, so I let it resolve. He plays a land, I die. G3 he keeps one land top and doesn't find another one.
Ichorid: 0-2
G1 he dredges terribly, so he gives me the chance of winning if I find a Terminus. I don't. G2 he dredges terrible again, but I don't find my Surgicals, so I die again.
Trial 2:
Death and Taxes: 0-2
G1 I have T1 top, T2 CB, he gets Cavern on Kor, plays 2 SFM (and nothing else) and I can't find Terminus or StP in time. Was thinking about playing eight Terminus at that point. G2, turns out he has a green splash with Gaddok and Choke. Whoops.
Trial 3:
BUG Delver: 2-0
G1 he shows up late. Second game he plays T2 Confidant for which I don't find removal (see: eight Terminus). I think I resolve two CB just so he has to waste his time killing them as he's stuck on two lands. Good for me, Confidant deals 14 damage to me and 16 to him, which is lethal with two fetches and a Thoughtseize.
Infect: 1-2
G1 he Infects me and has the one of Flusterstorm on the lethal turn. Playing three Inkmoth Nexus also helped I guess. G2 I survive on nine Poison Counters. G3 he has a guy which I can remove and a Nexus which I can't because of his very protective hand.
Trial 4:
Sneak Show: 2-0
G1 I counter SnT, then resolve Clique in response to a Sneak Attack. Being greedy I take Griselbrand, leave him with Jace and Pierce, then let Attack resolve. He taps out for Jace which I force. Next turn he draws Emrakul which gets terminused. Jace wins. G2 I just have it all.
Nic Fit with Scapeshift (yes): 1-2
G1 I win after a long game with a lethal Entreat in response to Slaughter Games. G2 I'm stuck on one land and never find a second after he discards my cantrips. G3 I start beating down with small stuff, get him to 7 but have to sword his Primeval Titan. So he goes up to 13 again, which is exactly my life totals. It's extraturns and I can't find something to beat down and also can't fetch because there's going to be sudden death soon. He rips Scapeshift in his second sudden death turn.
Trial 5:
Belcher: 1-2
G1 he doesn't have anything. G2 he Warrens me first turn, G3 I play Meddling Mage on Belcher, he kills me with Warrens. I ask him if he has Belcher in his hand, which he did.
At this point I played five trials and won a total of three matches. It didn't help that I played against Legacys most random collection of petdecks so I was actually almost scrapping the list and playing something untested for the GP. Still registered for a final chance.
Trial 6:
Infect: 2-1
Found the one guy in the room who's probably more tired than me. G1 he gets greedy and tries to kill me, so I sword his guy in response to Vines. G2 he infects me with Backup. G3 he keeps a onelander, I REB a Brainstorm and he's never in the game.
BURG Delver: 2-0
G1 no idea, G2 he plays Bitterblossom, but my Mentor token are stronger.
BUG Delver: 2-1
G1 no idea, he never drops below 19 so I guess he wins. G2 I win with Mentor, G3 he resolves Sylvan Library and starts drawing cards, then plays Dark Confidant at five life. I draw StP but greedily decide to not play it. He reveals FoW and dies, then tells me that this happened to him the second time today. I tell him I know, because it was me it happened against in Trial 3. No need to play well when you're this lucky.
Grixis Delver: 2-1
G1 he resolves two Delver in the first two turns that naturally flip and crush me (12 Terminus at that point). G2 I get Countertop online and he doesn't play anything. G3 I remove two of his creatures, then play Mentor and another Mentor via Cavern.
Death and Taxes: 2-0
G1 has lots of going back and forth, he gets SoFaI online, but I Entreat and double block his equipped creature, then attack for lethal in two turns with Jace and Venser keeping his board empty. G2 he misplays heavily by not tapping my single white source for several turns and rather taking my Volcanic, which allows me to just do whatever the want with my now 16 Terminus.
So, the trial finishes at 1:30 AM and I'm super dead, but the faith in the list is restored and my plan to be an arrogant asshole and buy the Sleep in Special without having byes (because I'd win a trial anyway, duh) has paid off, as I'm now upgraded to VIP for the rest of the weekend. We arrive at our hotel after a walk through the pitch dark park with Magic decks worth thousands of dollars and hearing people in the darkness of the trees everywhere. Not an experience I can recommend. A short night later and we're on to the GP. Park is a lot more peaceful in daylight and with more than two people going.
R1&2: Byes. Sitting outside and drinking water while it's super duper hot inside.
R3: BUG Delver: 2-0
He plays a total of three lands in two games, one being a Wasteland. Not enough.
R4: ANT: 2-0
G1 he starts with Island, Top, so I think the mirror. Then he ponders, keeps stuff on top, doesn't play a land and says go, then ponders and plays a second Island on his next turn. Thinking of some strange Omnitell build. Clique reveals he's on ANT, he tries to kill me but I force the Ritual that would've let him get enough mana to natural Tendrils me. Turns out he didn't have it but wanted to use Infernal. Still, better safe than sorry. So, my paranoid Omnitell board is pretty good against ANT, too. G2 he attacks with a Xantid into my Vendilion Clique while a Meddling Mage on Tendrils was on the field. After that I have all the counters and also a very good clock.
R5: Miracle: 2-1
G1 Cavern on Miracles helps me resolving Snapcasters to flashback cmc one spells. He has Countertop established but can't find a one on top of his library if his life depends on it, so he always has to draw a card. I use that to play my own CB in one of those situations, than blast his CB in his drawstep as I know there's no one on top. Entreat wins a bit after that. G2 he kills me with Mentor (that doesn't resolve), Mentor (that one resolves) and Elspeth (ohoh). G3 I have Mentor, he has Mentor, but then I play Jace, bounce his Mentor and start attacking. He has a hail mary Terminus but I have the Clique, sponsered by Cavern of Souls.
R6: ANT: 2-0
G1 Ponder, hide CB on top, he duresses, I slam CB, then find top shortly after. G2, the Omnitell board strikes and Canonist with his buddy Meddling Mage on Decay seal the deal.
R7: UR/b Delver: 1-2
G1 he doesn nothing until turn three, then resolves TNN, I have the FoW, but also Top, two Ponder, CB and Fetchlands. So I let it resolve and fight over my CB. Turns out he has double Force. I still resolve a CB a turn after that, then try to find Terminus. Spoiler: I don't. So he's completely locked out of the game, but I can't find one of my 20 Terminus. G2 I kill his two creatures fast, Terminus a TNN and just have the good time with CB Top. G3 is fairly drawn out. I clear his board, have CB Top and fetch / ponder every turn to find some sort of business. In response to a fetch he then proceeds to Price of Progress me for 10. It was the one turn of the last six that I had no cmc two on top.
R8: BUG Delver: 1-2
G1 he kills me with Liliana ultimate and Hymn support. G2 I win with Mentors. G3 I mulligan two five, recover from a Hymn. He has Delver and Liliana. So I play Mentor, then sword his delver to make a token. He has Daze. And Decay. Nice last two cards there.
R9: Shardless BUG: 1-2
G1 is super drawn out. I win somehow. G2 he wins with turn three Jace, which I REB in my turn, then T4 Jace, which locks the game. G3 I mulligan to five, don't recover from a Hymn and just die.
So, finished 6-3 after a super strong start. Pretty much dreamcrushed. What made it harder was just the fact that I shouldn't have lost G1 or G3 against that URb Delver. Then the mulligans to five in the other two deciding games. It just felt very unlucky to go out of a GP that way, even if my opponent were very nice/good players and deserved their win.
Oh well, let's do something stupid. So we get back to the hotel and I sleeve up this, completely untested, no idea how to sideboard or how to play the actual deck:
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei´s Divining Top
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Counterbalance
3 Daze
1 Counterspell
4 Force Of Will
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Terminus
2 Dig Through Time
2 Pyroblast
3 Island
1 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Cavern of Souls
Sideboard:
1 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Counterbalance
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Rest in Peace
1 Wear//Tear
1 Swords to plowshares
1 Jace, the Mind-Sculptor
1 Entreat the Angles
Soooo, Sideevents, here we go. I decide to play the Bazaar of Duals thing, which rewards you basicly with two boxes starting at 5-0-2 and even more stuff if you do better.
R1: BUG Delver: 2-0
No idea what happened. Think the Mentors won.
R2: Lands: 2-1
G1 he mulligans to four, then dies to Mentor beats. G2 he establishes Loam, Choke, Port, Wasteland together with Exploration. It was a long game but I eventually concede due to time. G3 is also a drawn out affair, I can apply some beatdown and in the meantime counter his Loam three times when he' stuck on two lands. He slowly crawls back into the game, but is very low on life. I have creatures, but in the deciding turns he finds Glacial Chasm. We're getting close to extra turns, so I tell him he doesn't have to worry, if he gets his Chasm control online, I'll concede so we don'T draw. I then find DTT in my turn which gave me the crucial FoW for his Loam and a Snapcaster to DTT again, finding RIP. I kill him on turn five of turns.
R3: Shardless BUG: 2-0
G1 is again a long drawn out affair until I can actually find and protect a Mentor. G2 he mulligans to four, no game at all.
R4: Esper Stoneblade: 2-0
G1 is pretty uneventful, he gets in some beats with Lingering Souls token, but I can clear the board and finally the Mentor takes over. G2 is a lot closer, as he's actually beating me down quite heavily. I finally find Staticaster, again sponsered by Cavern, and clear his token board. After that, Jace wins. Pretty terrible MU for him imho.
R5: BUGW Control: 2-1
Super interesting build and easily the most intense match of the whole weekend. He's playing SFM, Hymn, Decay, STP, Jace and Liliana. So G1 he hymns me three times, but has to "throw" away his Liliana when he ultimates her and piles a Mentor against the rest of my board (five lands and a Mentor token). He still has SFM and Skull, so I try to establish Countertop while not dying, then Terminus the board away and counter his Skull with a Force on top when he finally replays it (after being super patient and trying to find other means of victory). The one Jace then wins, as I have no other wincondition left. Game was actually so long that all Mentors died. G2 is pretty short. We're running very short of time, so the pace has actually increased ridiculusly, making passerbys staying behind us, staring. He gets quick beats online with SFM into BS with Liliana and Jace. I Terminus the board away, then kill his Jace, but he finds another SFM before I can control the board. Playing even faster the third game with having about six minutes left, I board out Terminus and just go for the beats. He has a SFM which gets sworded, I get Countertop online with a three and a DTT on top, but he doesn't play Liliana. Short on time I draw the Clique, play it in his endstep. In response he plays his DTT. Trigger happens. I then play my DTT, find two Mentors and in my drawstep a second Top to be super duper lethal on turn three or five of the extra turns. Like I said, probably the best match I played all weekend.
R6: Food Chain: 1-1
He gets his engine going but I have Countertop and a Jace on top. So two of his Griffins go to the graveyard. He's beating me down with a Strix and Agent while I don't find removal, but have to keep my lonely Jace on top. He finally has enough lands to just play Emrakul, as his Food Chain has resolved and he has his two guys worth seven mana. So I go search up a Terminus. But now his Griffins are online again. So I get beat down pretty quick, even after finding another Terminus. Again, super long game, so I start playing faster again while my opponent is just chilling out, even getting reminded to play faster by a judge. I disrupt his combopieces with my Countertop and beat him down by Mentor, winning the turn time is called.
R7: Jeskai Stoneblade: 2-0 (I guess)
So I'm 5-0-1 now, a win gives me a Revised Tundra and a Revised Underground Sea, a draw 950 BoM points (about 3 displays) and a loss 650 points (about 2 displays). And after having to play the last two rounds at a stupidly fast speed, I actually feel very tired. So I'm thinking about just drawing or doing whatever, when my opponent just straight up concedes to me so we can both have a dual, 325 points and me getting a little bonus because he gets the more expensive dual.
So in conclusion:
Both decks played incredibly smooth. There was always stuff I could do to get out of certain situations. Training online helped a lot with that I guess. The 20land Ponder list just feels incredible greedy and while that gets rewarded, I feel that it gets punished more than too often. I'll probably try to get some Dazes online so I can play the Mentor list and see were that gets me, as I felt that it was a viable plan B (and I've also never liked Entreat). The sideboard is something I'd change though, as I never really wanted to board back to regular Miracles.
The weekend itself was amazing. The organisation of the events was well done (withing five minutes upon our arrival, we were already playing in an early bird trial), the weather was probably too hot and the air condition thing sucked, but at least the organisators thought quicked and got water supply for everyone.
And while I still feel a bit depressed about my GP result, I guess the stuff I got is rewarding enough.
So, sorry for the long post. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Thanks for the report, mort. You certainly got a lot of games in!
I'm interested in hearing a bit more about your experiences with the Mentor/Daze deck. I've been playing 2 mentors in my ponder-miracles board and I love every time I get to resolve one, so I'm naturally curious about this 4-mentor version. Some questions:
1. Do you find that the inclusion of Daze means you're more often playing the mentor on 3 or 4 lands? Does having 4 of them mean that you'll happily run it out early, or do you still play towards establishing full control before deploying one?
2. How does such a creature-heavy plan work together with Terminus? Did you ever find yourself in awkward situations where you had to terminus away 2+ of your own creatures?
3. Related to the above 2, and assuming that playing 4 mentors and daze does indeed make the deck much more proactive, would it make sense in your opinion to at least consider replacing terminuses with lightning bolts? (At this point, I'm perfectly aware that it wouldn't be a miracles deck anymore, but I think it hardly IS a miracles deck as it is now. Top and CB should still be worth running in my view)
Thanks!
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exactly. With Mentors you tap a lot your mana. Daze is very good there. Also, Wasteland is a wise choice for the other Miracle deck. It gets Karakas and slows Grixis so much in conjuction to StP/Terminus on DRS
Is it even Miracles anymore at that point? It seems more like UWr Mentor Control with Terminus as the best sweeper in the format.
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