[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Arianrhod]

Here are a pair of Topless lists for consideration:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Eternal Witness
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Sun Titan
1 Dragonlord Dromoka

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Night's Whisper

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Abzan Charm

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas

//sb
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Slaughter Games
1 Taiga
1 Tsunami
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Nether Void

------------------------------

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wall of Blossoms
2 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
1 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Primeval Titan

3 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bayou
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
2 Stomping Grounds
1 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Kessig Wolf Run

//sb
3 Slaughter Games
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Thoughtseize
1 Scapeshift
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Pyroclasm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Massacre
1 Maelstrom Pulse


The first is a white list in a rock-style, the second is Scapewish. I also want to tease out a potential Thune variant with Whispers and Living Wishes that I thought of but didn't have time to develop today. I would take a stab at Punishing, but realistically I just don't know enough about it to have an informed opinion. The blue lists are going to change more from meta shifts than from Top's ban mattering -- worst case they just run more Brainstorms/Digs/Ponders in those slots.

Note that both sideboards are super general -- a Top ban would have very large ramifications to the format, and the meta would be a wild west for a while. Keep in mind that all of this is speculatory, since if they do ban Top, we'll likely get something unbanned at the same time. If that something is Mind Twist, for example, that would change quite a bit on our end.

[Ralf]

Note that both sideboards are super general -- a Top ban would have very large ramifications to the format, and the meta would be a wild west for a while. Keep in mind that all of this is speculatory, since if they do ban Top, we'll likely get something unbanned at the same time. If that something is Mind Twist, for example, that would change quite a bit on our end.

That is a lot of Bombs !!!
Anyway, let's wild wild West a little bit for the moment.
I'll think about your lists and come up with few arguments by tomorrow.

Edit = not enough basics in Scape to my taste

[Bobmans]

Indeed a lot of bombs. It feels your rock list lacks (spot)removal.
I like the idea of running 2 baneslayers, resembles running 2 stormbreaths in my pfire list.
Anyhow, i would replace top for:
1 Sylvan Library
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Diabolic Intent
I like the idea of having a continues effect of the enchantments. Draw 2 just seems a bit meh.

[Arianrhod]

That is a lot of Bombs !!!
Anyway, let's wild wild West a little bit for the moment.
I'll think about your lists and come up with few arguments by tomorrow.

Edit = not enough basics in Scape to my taste

There should be another one. I wanted to squeeze the Kessig in and didn't realize that I'd already cut one basic. Oops. The white list also has a manabase oops in it -- I just copy/pasted an old white manabase from my Evernote and forgot about the Slaughter sideboard. There should be 2 more fetches in there, and the maindeck should have at least 1 Deathrite over the 2nd Skaura-Tribe, and probably a 2nd Deathrite.....somewhere, over something else.

Don't forget that Abzan Charm is also removal. In fact, in a Topless world I expect 2 Abzan Charms to be fairly common for white lists -- it's quality instant-speed removal with additional functionality. I've run one copy in white versions in the past and have used all three modes. Removal that can also be additional Whispers is very strong. It's -possible- that there wants to be another 1 or 2 spot removals maindeck, but I would prefer to use the combat step as removal. A lot of the decks that we could expect to come back out of hiding after Miracles is removed from the format are very weak to Deed, anyway, so I would probably run with this suite for a while and see how it goes.

[Warden]

Is baneslayer hard on the mana? Serious question because I found Sun Titan to be manageable in Junk. Then again, 6 mana is a different animal than 5.

[Ralf]

Is baneslayer hard on the mana? Serious question because I found Sun Titan to be manageable in Junk. Then again, 6 mana is a different animal than 5.

Not that much.
I've played Baneslayer in quite a few Nic Fit list but being only white requires you to play at least 2 to see him at least once in any game.
Nic Fit games has a tendancy to go "long" if you know what I mean.

[Memories of the Time]

Hello people.
After my last tournament (9° for ratings, 3-1-1 in a 32p, losing from UWR mentor by bad luck without playing and draw with Lands by my horrible mistake in g2), i've made some changes in my Bug Pod list. Principally i've added red splash for three cards that really intrigue me:
Keranos, a perfect drop when you have a stable board to close the game
Anathemancer, a surprising creature that helps against lands/post, close the game vs control (and that's an important point) and deals with PW
Magus of the Moon in the sb, against Lands, Post and greedy manabase

My first test on cockatrice with this new version (although i want to start serious test after monday, when i've an exam and there will be the ban list) are going very well and i'm loosing especially by mana screw/flood. This is the list (and an idea of a deck without top)

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Baleful Strix
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Yasova Dragonclaw
1 Anathemancer
1 Notion Thief
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Thragtusk
1 Keranos, God of Storms

1 Polluted Delta
1 Taiga
2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea

2 Pernicious Deed
3 Birthing Pod
4 Brainstorm
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
4 Cabal Therapy

SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 1 Swan Song
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Magus of the Moon
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker

[Bobmans]

i'm loosing especially by mana screw/flood. This is the list (and an idea of a deck without top)

First off, i really enjoy seeing this list. Second i really like that this list runs a red splash for Keranos and Magus. Might aswell include some Slaughter Games. Third and last for now, getting manascrew (color) is something that really needs fixing. That must be the biggest weakness to overcome. The big question is how. The early versions of (mostly) SotF ran 4 or 5 colors and used 3-4 City of Brass and Birds of Paradise to fix mana. But that that was in a totally different world.

[Memories of the Time]

First off, i really enjoy seeing this list. Second i really like that this list runs a red splash for Keranos and Magus. Might aswell include some Slaughter Games. Third and last for now, getting manascrew (color) is something that really needs fixing. That must be the biggest weakness to overcome. The big question is how. The early versions of (mostly) SotF ran 4 or 5 colors and used 3-4 City of Brass and Birds of Paradise to fix mana. But that that was in a totally different world.

Sometimes i get colorscrew, of course, like the g2 of the only turn loses last tournament. More often my problems are flood/manascrew, and for this reason i've added 1 Library and 1 Top (originally i was playing only 4 brainstorm).
Anyway, don't understimate Anathemancer: he's able to reasonably kill any pw and i've often used unearth, that's good in this deck because you can pod it away after etb+attack.

[Surfkatt]

I have not been playing as much Legacy recently but this is my Scapewish list.

Scapewish
By: Surfkatt


Main Deck:
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wood Elves

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize

3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs


Sideboard:
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Dryad Militant
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge


I have always been a huge fan of the Decays in the main. It has always been an all star for me, it was a big part of my IQ win.

Just Brainstorming:
What about adding 1-2 (fetch-)lands and 2-3 Magmatic Insight + Titania. Adding lands bolsters the Scapeshift finish and could give us an additional turn 1 play (not the best one, sure). Titania should imo be a thing in Scapefit - but I didn't try her so far.

Idk why but this idea really tickles me. What about something like this-

Topless Scapewish
By: Surfkatt


Main Deck:
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wood Elves

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Magmatic Insight
1 Thoughtseize

3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbor

Sideboard:
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Dryad Militant
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge

I went up to 25 lands but one of them is an arbor. I have always wanted an arbor but I never had a good enough reason to run one. Titania and insight might be those reasons. Going up a fetch also makes me want to squeeze a courser or 2 in there for even more advantage. They would be over the Decays so I dont think I am ready to do that yet. Lmk what you guys think.

[Arianrhod]

Idk why but this idea really tickles me. What about something like this-

Topless Scapewish
By: Surfkatt


Main Deck:
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wood Elves

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Magmatic Insight
1 Thoughtseize

3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbor

Sideboard:
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Dryad Militant
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge

I went up to 25 lands but one of them is an arbor. I have always wanted an arbor but I never had a good enough reason to run one. Titania and insight might be those reasons. Going up a fetch also makes me want to squeeze a courser or 2 in there for even more advantage. They would be over the Decays so I dont think I am ready to do that yet. Lmk what you guys think.

This is super interesting.

I don't think I like Magmatic Insight in a Scape shell, since you want to be playing your lands rather than discarding them -- but perhaps a Punishing shell? Card has to be insane with Loam, too. Could be a missing link for a Nic Fit variant of aggro loam.

[thotcrime]

Yasova looks like pretty sweet tech against fairer decks (stupid DnT) and I have to say I'm digging the Anathemancer.

Someone stated earlier that we should use a Sylvan Library/Mirri's Guile/Diabolic Intent split to replace SDT. My favorite aspect of these cards is the lack of mana investment; once they're cast, that's it. Obviously 1 colorless mana isn't a terrible lot to pay for filtering with Top, but the fact that we'll have that 1 mana open could allow tighter early turns (hey Path, Thoughtseize, etc). Maybe.
We could also settle on more fetches (I'm currently running 8) to ensure a shuffle if we don't like the top cards.
This clearly doesn't solve the problem of Deed destroying our goodies, but it seems like a few activations of Library/Guile should be more than enough to solidify a gameplan. Get your money's worth then blow 'em up, eh?
Alternatively, as better players than I have already suggested, nix the Deeds for other (less tits) sweepers like Deluge, Explosives, whatever.
I know speculation is the devil's work, but I'm jumping on the Library train today. Ya know. Just in case.
...


Edit: Something else to consider; if SDT gets the banhammer, Miracles (the most abusive control deck IMO) goes bye bye, setting the stage for either 1.) a huge upsurge in combo, 2.) a more probable upsurge in creature decks. Being that I play Junk, I'm looking much more closely at combat planeswalkers.
Also, PunishingFit has the potential to explode if the Delvers/Maverick/Infect lists gain momentum.

[tilzinger]

Instead of a Scapewish Evolutionary Leap build, what about a walkers build? Just thinking out loud here. Not sure I've ever seen Advent of the Wurm in a Modern deck, let alone Legacy, but a 5/5 with trample at that lets you still only run 4 creatures seems pretty good. Not sure if this of walkers is the most optimal.


22 lands
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Evolutionary Leap
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Advent of the Wurm
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Vraska the Unseen
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Karn Liberated

[emuhell]

Instead of a Scapewish Evolutionary Leap build, what about a walkers build? Just thinking out loud here. Not sure I've ever seen Advent of the Wurm in a Modern deck, let alone Legacy, but a 5/5 with trample at that lets you still only run 4 creatures seems pretty good. Not sure if this of walkers is the most optimal...

Since you rely heavily on tokens to win, Pernicious Deed is a very ambivalent card.
I'm not sure what to think of the leap builds so far. It seems very cute and risky. If you don't combo out, you are just a really slow superfriends deck, without jace.

[lavafrogg]

Could be a relevant question: If Primeval Titan fetched an urborg and a cabal coffers, what could you do with the mana that is also relevant without tons of mana... Im thinking a Profane command that doesn't piss me off(the last mode should be gain x life!)

[Tom4ik]

I am all for brewing and playing oddball cards but sometimes I wonder if this thread is actually trying to create a competitive deck or not. It is certainly one of the most active and interesting groups for what thats worth.

For those posting card choices or deck archtypes, please justify (this does not mean tell what the card/s do) what the card is doing better than something else.

For example, why is running 2 land combo that gives lots of mana once we have a lot of mana useful?

A generic example is "I like playing Vet/Therapy in my bug control deck because I get to play less land (the turbo xerox model) and the ability to disrupt while also playing haymakers like jace and deed early."

(no offense to anyone, I love the vet therapy combo)

[Bobmans]

I am all for brewing and playing oddball cards but sometimes I wonder if this thread is actually trying to create a competitive deck or not. It is certainly one of the most active and interesting groups for what thats worth.

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. There is a grey area as for this deck that plays competitive and meta tweaked lists and lets say not so competitive fun stuff that you can't really justify other then that you want to play it in an eternal enviroment. Call that love for Magic: the Gathering. I think the question is, do we want discussion for competitive purposes only in this thread?

I don't have a problem with this, other then that sometimes posts go all over the place, and posts are missing response.

[lavafrogg]

I am all for brewing and playing oddball cards but sometimes I wonder if this thread is actually trying to create a competitive deck or not. It is certainly one of the most active and interesting groups for what thats worth.

For those posting card choices or deck archtypes, please justify (this does not mean tell what the card/s do) what the card is doing better than something else.

For example, why is running 2 land combo that gives lots of mana once we have a lot of mana useful?

A generic example is "I like playing Vet/Therapy in my bug control deck because I get to play less land (the turbo xerox model) and the ability to disrupt while also playing haymakers like jace and deed early."

(no offense to anyone, I love the vet therapy combo)

I'm fairly certain I was asking a question about what this deck would do with tons of black mana. Green Suns zenith for primeval Titan seems like the best thing that Nic Fit can do, it is non graveyard dependent and automatically gets 2 lands. What are the best 2 lands to get?

RG can get valakut and start manually exploding volcanoes. What can GB/GBw do?

[Bobmans]

... never mind.

Can't delete the message with Tapatalk.

[tilzinger]

RG can get valakut and start manually exploding volcanoes. What can GB/GBw do?

Exsanguinate?