Originally Posted by Poron
wow, didnt see that tech until now!
Thanks!
Obviously there's scenarios where it can be stopped. My point is that it's extremely difficult to deal with Entreat, and as soon as you draw it they're normally just dead, regardless of what shenanigans they've been running up until that point. Naming random cards doesn't change the fact that Entreat beats just about everything once the game goes long enough. New toys are fun, and I've got 2 Mentors in my sideboard, but calling Entreat obsolete is silly. There's all sorts of cards, from Pyroclasm to Sulfur Elemental, that people could start jamming in their sideboards. Half the format is already on 4x Young Pyromancer, and if Miracles starts maindecking Mentors it shouldn't take long.
Hello guys, and fellow miracle players.
(First of all, sorry for my bad english grammar)
Not so active in posting in this thread, but I'm long time lurker on forum and this topic too. Soon, there is gonna be local tournament in my place, and I've decided to play Miracles. I had adjusted my list to local metagame (2x merfolk, 1-2x dredge, 1x reanimator (with S&T's mainboard), 1x UG infect, 1x death and taxes, 1x GBW nic fit, Affinity, Jund and couple of homebrew decks like unsorted countertop -thopters, smallpox and so on. But the real contenders are merfolks, infect, dredge, reanimator nic fit, jund and affinity):
Here's the list:
Creatures (4)
3x Snapcaster mage
1x Vendilion clique
Instants (19)
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of will
4x Swords to plowshares
2x Pyroblast
2x Lightning bolt
1x counterspell
1x dig through time
1x wear tear
Sorceries (7)
1x Entreat the angels
1x Council's judgement
2x terminus
3x ponder
Artifacts (4)
4x Sensei's divining top
Enchantments (2)
2x counterbalance
Planeswalkers (3)
3x Jace, the mind sculptor
Lands (21)
1x Karakas
3x Tundra
3x Volcanic island
3x island
1x plains
4x flooded strand
4x scalding tarn
2x arid mesa
SB(15):
1x E. tutor
1x E. canonist
1x blood moon
1x energy flux - tweaked for local metagame (affinity)
1x pithing needle
1x graffdigger's cage
1x tormod's crypt
2x peacekeeper - merfolks, dredge, infect, affinity, even reanimator (they probably side out elesh norn in G2)
1x wear tear - D
1x pyroblast
1x supreme verdict
2x flusterstorm
1x V. clique
Here's few words for card choices, and global thinking... (Don't wanna start talking about mentor miracles yet :P)
I know - list looks strange, and I am one of those miracle sinners who opt for changes and other ideas.
Too many times i got incosistent, opening hands with multiple miracle cards without brainstorm, counterbalance hands without SDT and so on. We all know how frustrating is that (I know i'm not the only one with that opinion), and waiting for correct pieces to complete the puzzle someties means certain death because we are sitting and doing - nothing :(
So, despite my strange decklist tweaked for local tournaments I started to thinking. Bad hands forces us to mulligans, mulligans forces us to have suboptimal hands, and i want to maximize my chances of consistent hands.
- I choose to reduce some number of cbalances, terminuses and one entreat the angels. Uping 2 lightning bolt and one vendilion clique doesn't change my count of removal spells and cmc range, and they are not dead in my hands - Bolt can kill planeswalkers, can be flashbacked via snapcaster, and can even kill opponent in racing - none of that you can do with terminus. And also can surprise my opponents because it's unsuspected card. Today, people playing against miracles know how to play, at least most of them. They won't overextend with creatures, so from time to time, we are forced to cast terminus against just one creature. So i think split 2 Bolt-2 terminus is correct choice, even in the large open metagames.
- I shave down 2 counterbalances, because of the similar reason. I feel it's too suboptimal without SDT. I'm playing miracles for 3 years now, and always felt that way. Don't get me wrong - Cbtop lock is strong, but most experienced players know it's rare situation you will have it in your first, second or third turn. It's good on paper and theory, but in practice it's just to weak alone on the board without SDT, and relying on brainstorm in response to counter spells via cbalance triggers is not what you want in long game. I just think that 2 copies is right number, and with plenty of selection and shuffle effects you have great chance to find it when you need it.
- Wear tear maindeck. Yes, i dont know why this card is not played already in mainboard, since miracles have trouble to remove noncreature permanents in G1, and W-T seems the best alongside with council's judgement. It's even great when floating on top 3 cards of your library for counterbalance lock because it can counter 1 and 2 cmc spells. Removes equipments, sylvan library, omniscience, chalice of the voids #1, trinispheres, opposing cb-top, aether vials, needles, Ee/deeds, random problematic enchantments and artifacts and so on. I just think it deserves more attention of maindeck.. Maybe i'm wrong, but somehow it always finds purpse -if nothing, just for floating on top library for solid lock.
So i would like to discuss this opinion with experienced players, and of most i would appreciate advice from God of miracles - Phillipp Schonegger
controls
Cut good cards, play bad cards. That's a bold move Cotton, lets see if it pays off.
what peculiar choices.
Isn't Ensnaring Bridge strictly better than Peacemaker?
It allows you to still cast Terminus in case of pesky hate bears.
It has no maintenance and no weakness to creature hate and small critter are not a problem because either you play Pyroclasm or you play Mentor..
What about 2 Cbalances in the 75? Everyone is playing cantrips and combo. Cbalance is at its peak in these days.
I told i tweaked some sideboard choices for local metagame, so is Peacekeeper (not maker :D). Bridge is better in wide open meta, but I think Pkeeper is more effective against merfolks, infect, dredge and affinity than bridge. At least from my experience.
As far as counterbalance, you may be right, maybe 2 is too low count, but is so frustrating to draw multiple copies without bstorms and tops so i was forced to take drastical changes and cut 2 from deck. I will report results from upcoming tournament, so we will see how it performs.
Having multiple CBs in play without Top or BS is still fine, you just have to use your fetchlands effectively. I just can't get my head around not playing four copies of it, as Poron said, it's at a peak at the moment.
multiple CB are never bad in a world of Krosan Grip and Abrupt Decay.
Worst case scenario they can be pitched to FoWs
Well, the way things are going in this thread, we're just about on cue for someone to come in and argue the merits of Esper Miracles again.
Can we not call bad cards 'creativity'? We're seriously having a discussion about whether a card that is very good should be cut because sometimes you don't draw it and that sucks. What?!
But I want to play Stifle.
and I want to play Wasteland here.
I want to waste that Boseiju/Karakas I always glare to.
I also want to waste that lonely Volcanic Island in 2lands Grixis after StP on Shaman..
Nowadays' decks are so greedy on mana that Wasteland has become a powerful mean of control. much better than Stifle.
But we have to go back to 22 lands, imho, and perhaps drop MD red.
So I have a question.
I currently have no legends in the MD, but 3 Clique in the SB. I'd love to have a Karakas in the manabase for them, as well as utility vs opposing legends, but I'm not sure there's another land to be cut. I'm not thrilled about shaving basics as I feel like being able to play off them is one of the decks strengths. Is cutting to 8 fetches a sin? Or maybe going down to 20 lands could be acceptable? Not keen on that either, though. If DTT is banned on Monday, the amount of Pyros might go down, so a Volc could be cut. I'm not sure to be totally honest. Thoughts?
Current manabase:
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 blue fetch
1 Arid Mesa
21 land
Deck for ref
3 Snapcaster
4 SDT
4 CB
1 Counterspell
1 Pyroblast
1 DTT
2 Jace
4 Terminus
2 Entreat
4 BS
4 Ponder
4 STP
4 FoW
1 C Judgement
I'd be more inclined to cut a basic than a fetch. 3 Islands/2 Plains is still enough for you to cast basically everything off of, or even 4 Island/1 Plains if you tweak your deck away from double-white spells. Keeping the number of fetches high will ensure you still hit the colours you need when you need them through Brainstorm/SDT, as well as providing fuel for DTT if it survives the banhammer. If Pyroblast is your only red spell, you might be able to cut a Volcanic, but I feel like having only 2 red sources is brittle against too many decks.
Joke
____________
You
Anyway, some decks do drop the MD red (only have 2 Volcs for the SB cards). It's certainly a meta call, I might start playing a MD REB if my local meta becomes too blue.
Don't play Stifle. Our spells should either get us closer to winning the game or stop the opponent in their tracks. Stifle does neither, only delays. We are not a tempo deck, so we cannot play Stifle.
I don't know what you are usually playing against but in my meta and Gp Lille meta i never ever wished to come back to 22 lands and drop pyroblast from maindeck to play those sh***y wastelands, boseiju can be interacted putting a creature with an Etb for S&T and rebbing Omni in response to your creature's trigger, and Karakas is not worth not playing md pyro in a Dig heavy metagame
So come Jul 13, if one of the following cards is banned:
- Brainstorm
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Dig Through Time
- Counterbalance
- Terminus
Which one being banned will hurt this deck the most? I think there is a very good chance that at least ONE of those cards is banned, but probably not more than one. Which card being banned would hurt this deck the most? Which one would be easiest to find replacements for?
Top, BS and Terminus would kill the deck.
Dig is by far the most obvious replacement.
I do hope DTT is banned. It would give us back our 2 Rips in SB as well as more answers to permanents MD
Brainstorm: BS getting banned nukes the deck, and means no more Terminus or Entreat. There probably would be a Counter-Top control deck in this new format, but who knows. I don't think anyone can predict what Legacy would look like w/o Brainstorm.
Top: You would never play CB or the miracles w/o top. A lot of people would probably shift to Stoneblade variants if they still want to play U/W/x control decks.
DTT: Legacy more or less reboots to pre KTK, where Miracles was the best deck. I think banning DTT actually helps Miracles.
Counterbalance: I could see a Mentor-Top control deck existing under this ban. You might see Gold Digger decks growing in popularity.
Terminus: You would have to drastically reconstruct the deck, but you still have Counter-Top. Supreme Verdict is not an adequate replacement for Terminus. This would push people even more toward Mentor aggro-control decks. Something like EE/Academy Ruins becomes very attractive in this scenario.
Hey Miracles players, I just picked up this deck like a week ago before SCG Baltimore. I went and played in it and got to 5-2-1. I got to play one of the top 8 players, Rob Long, whom I tied with that day, and also faced his brother, David Long after wards, who's infamous for playing Lands. How crazy is that? They both are good as shit at Magic. Anyways, I having trouble on Cockatrice with playing against BUG variant decks, aka BUG Delver/ Shardless BUG. What does one do in these matches and post board games? It seems their decks is strong against us with Abrupt Decay, and Liliana of the Veil. How do you play this match up? Anyone who has success in this match up can reveal some credible suggestions?
2015 SCG Washington D.C. IQ Legacy Champion - 1st place w/ Sneak and Show
Follow me on http://www.twitch.tv/dcosiem/ for Legacy on Cockatrice.
If you want to play me on Cockatrice, add me as dcosiem.
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