[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Dzogchen]

Thanks for the suggestions! I saw Rusalka and thought about it, but I'd really like for the sac part to be free. I guess the question is really 'Do we think that having a creature sac target is a worth the spot?' Then, if so, are any of these good enough? There are a few more with the devour mechanic, but they all cost way to much. If you had the mana to get them, you would need to do it in the first place. 3 or less would seem ideal to me.

I've had games where it was just my board of 2 vets, and they had either flyers or wouldnt attack into them, and I couldnt sac them. I could image the Slime being good to get or flash in, sac both, get a 4/4 and a bunch of lands.

[adrieng]

I have been testing some lists with some ok results recently:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=17579&iddeck=132288

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=17506&iddeck=131719

I am now on this list :

4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Forest
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Taiga
1 Bayou

4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pyroblast

2 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Eternal Witness
3 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer

SB: 3 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 Pernicious Deed
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction



Adding safekeeper here gives lot of option either with titania or with marit lage. The list is a mix of both previous lists
and it is better. I don't like deeds in the main they have been good depending of the matchups.

[maharis]

So I'm sure most people ITT have thought about the new liliana + cabal therapy. But I was browsing some lists recently and remembered that our deck is also able to play Sakura Tribe-Elder, and I think that may be something we can really abuse.

I haven't played the Scapeshift version before, but that's where I was going. So I started drawing up a list, keeping these points in mind:

-Liliana and Vet/Therapy or STE is turbo-ramp. That gets us to our magic 7 lands faster than before
-Dark Petition exists, and we can feasibly cast it to find Liliana or other goodies that we might need
-To turn on Spell Mastery, we need to play more instants and sorceries that hit our GY (This turns off GSZ as a good option, but allows us to go down the Night's Whisper route. Also we probably want to play Thoughtseize/Duress effects to protect our combo)

I think these are the cards we want to choose from:

Veteran Explorer
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Sakura Tribe-Elder
Eternal Witness (to get back Dark Petition)
Some plan b/value creatures (Huntmaster? Obstinate Baloth? We may use life total aggressively)

Cabal Therapy
Gitaxian Probe (spell mastery/draw power)
Dark Petition
Night's Whisper
Scapeshift
Thoughtseize
Abrupt Decay
Maelstrom Pulse
Commune with Nature
Slaughter Games

As much as I've ragged on the card, Evolutionary Leap also could be good here, as it sacs our vets and Zombie tokens to find more vets/lilis/tribe-elders. But no spell mastery from that.

Anyone think this idea could give the archetype a lift?

[thotcrime]

While I like the idea of abusing the new Lili, I feel like that's a lot of dedicated card slots to assemble an inept combo. The planeswalker is good but not gamebreaking. And you need attractive GY targets to make her -X ability any good. In the right shell (maybe GB?) it could prove to be a solid value engine, but I don't think it can just be plugged into a relatively concrete strategy like Scapewish. Also, if I'm personally casting Dark Petition I will likely use it to grab 1. Liliana of the Veil or 2. Toxic Deluge. Bells are chiming in my head.

[Bobmans]

I have been testing some lists with some ok results recently:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=17579&iddeck=132288

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=17506&iddeck=131719

I am now on this list :

4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Forest
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Taiga
1 Bayou

4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pyroblast

2 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Eternal Witness
3 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer

SB: 3 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 Pernicious Deed
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction



Adding safekeeper here gives lot of option either with titania or with marit lage. The list is a mix of both previous lists
and it is better. I don't like deeds in the main they have been good depending of the matchups.

Looks interesting, i have a couple of questions:

How fast are you able to deploy a winning Marit Lage?
What do your typical games look like in the current meta?
What is the benefit into running Veteran Explorer in a (Turbo) Depths deck?

Thanks

[Tom4ik]

I just now noticed last page ppl where looking into DTT bug lists. I have been busy so not able to play legacy as much lately. But I think that is a great place to be. I would start at 2-3 dig and 3 jace as the CA engines. I am running 4 probes but could see 2 ponder and open up two more spots but probe is great for game 1 early therapy and turns therapy into an actual discard spell if we know we dont need to just name smth to not die.

For those that say what do we do with all the cards drawn. Lily/Jace backed by deed provide more than enough defense withforce and decay. you will find a tarpit or thrun or whatever to kill them.

I have been more into vintage lately (won a trop today with a grixis thieves list).

[Arianrhod]

I just now noticed last page ppl where looking into DTT bug lists. I have been busy so not able to play legacy as much lately. But I think that is a great place to be. I would start at 2-3 dig and 3 jace as the CA engines. I am running 4 probes but could see 2 ponder and open up two more spots but probe is great for game 1 early therapy and turns therapy into an actual discard spell if we know we dont need to just name smth to not die.

For those that say what do we do with all the cards drawn. Lily/Jace backed by deed provide more than enough defense withforce and decay. you will find a tarpit or thrun or whatever to kill them.

I have been more into vintage lately (won a trop today with a grixis thieves list).

Grixis Thieves is my jam in vintage too. It always amuses me how similar Nic Fit players' tastes tend to be cross-format...more so than most other communities of deck players, I think.

[adrieng]

Looks interesting, i have a couple of questions:

How fast are you able to deploy a winning Marit Lage?
What do your typical games look like in the current meta?
What is the benefit into running Veteran Explorer in a (Turbo) Depths deck?

Thanks

The marit lage token can be made as fast as turn 2. It depends of the matchups but deck without swords/terminus
are usually beaten with dark depth (UR/grixis/Bug tempo/jund/shardless/RUGtempo/combo.decks).
It is also a clock vs combo, where nic fit.classi (which I have been testing) had some problem in finding it.

The big advantage of this version over turbo depth is titania, titania+safekeeper/crop is the nuts and you can do that against decks like maverick
/aggro loam/death and taxes/stoneblade.decks thanks to crop into tower/cabal to sac veteran. While these matchups were winnable with turbo depth they become very easy with this version and even more after side when your brind deed.
The miracle matchup is also improved with titanaia/witness/deed after side.
Top also allows to find hate faster against combo compare to sylvan library but storm is still a difficult matchup.

I am convinced that this version improved both turbodepth and nic fit (which I think classic version is a bit weak to DTT.chain/YP.token/Monastery.token/show and tell). I think right now doing one for one with removals is not really a possibility.
Here you have the option to do broken things and win fast.

[thotcrime]

Grixis Thieves is my jam in vintage too. It always amuses me how similar Nic Fit players' tastes tend to be cross-format...more so than most other communities of deck players, I think.

very off topic here, but how did you guys acquire power cards??


To Junk players: Have we considered Eladamri's Call? Would it be worth running a split between Call and Diabolic Intent?

[Bobmans]

very off topic here, but how did you guys acquire power cards??


To Junk players: Have we considered Eladamri's Call? Would it be worth running a split between Call and Diabolic Intent?

They robbed a bank (or LGS).

[sdematt]

I bought beta power because I have too much money. Came out of the Ferrari fund, but that's okay. Ill start posting again after Wednesday.

[uncletiggy]

I need money matt ;-)

I've also been on the titania/lage plan. Im on three colors and done some refining to my list, its still not balanced yet.

@adrieng your list is fast and consistant but how has omnitell or any show match been for you with the light splash for pyroblast. I feel like its not enough and leaves you weak to storm as well. White gets you knight teeg swords and things like cataclysm and various other hate depending on your meta.

[Arianrhod]

very off topic here, but how did you guys acquire power cards??


To Junk players: Have we considered Eladamri's Call? Would it be worth running a split between Call and Diabolic Intent?

I won my Recall in a tournament, and just very slowed traded for / used tax refunds for the rest over a period of like 2-3 years. My Lotus was acquired at a modern GP, traded in my set of Goyfs (CFB was buying them at 150 cash at the event because it was a modern GP and they were sold out and needed them), my english Tabernacle, and a pile of standard garbage...got it for 1700 trade. Considering I bought my Goyfs years ago for like 240/set and my Tabernacle was purchased for like 180 in 2009 or 2010........yeah. I did pretty good :)

Getting power is definitely a lot rougher now than it used to be. I'm very grateful I got it when I did and can enjoy it now without worrying so much about it.

[jbone2016]

very off topic here, but how did you guys acquire power cards??


To Junk players: Have we considered Eladamri's Call? Would it be worth running a split between Call and Diabolic Intent?

I have run both in Junk. I like Intent but have cut it for now. I was thinking about altar of bone a little.

So, I did go to SCG Chicago for Standard/Legacy. 1-3 drop in standard, played my young frankenstein brew in the challenge to a 2-2 finish.

I played my junk list on Sunday to a 4-1-3 finish. Yes....3 draws.
Brief summary.
Drew with shardless bug.
Beat Omni-tell in 3.
Beat grixis delver in 3.
Lost to D and T in 3.
Drew with Maverick. Would have lost in a couple of more turns.
Beat Miracles in 3.
Beat Maverick in 2.
Drew with UWR Blade.

I'll get a list up tomorrow when I have more time.

[Leoj]

Here's a junk list I've put together that I'd like to get on MTGO and start jamming in dailies. I'm not super-familiar with the metagame so no idea what I should be sideboarding. I mostly put this list together after looking at a lot of various ones in this topic.


3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Sun Titan

2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library
3 Pernicious Deed

2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Windswept Heath


SB:

2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Golgari Charm
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Leyline of the Void


Some questions I had:

-Is anyone familiar with the MTGO meta? Just wondering if there's any tuning I can do to the deck to make it better.
-I'm choosing to run non-top card selection. Is this still a good idea? That's also why I'm running Sun Titan, so I suppose if I just ran 3x top I could pick a different green 6-drop for that spot, too.
-Is a 3/4 split of DRS/Explorer still reasonable? I know I've seen some lists run only 1 DRS.
-Should Swords be Path to Exile instead? I imagine if we're giving people basics off Explorer we don't care about giving them basics via path.
-Baneslayer seems neat to brick Griselbrand, but I'm afraid since it's non-green it'll be hard to find. Is there something better I can run in that slot?

Appreciate any feedback you can give me. I haven't bought the cards yet (still trying to play games before I do) but this is what I've got so far.

[jbone2016]

Alright, the list.

Dudes-16
3 Veteran Explorer (3 seems like the best amount, usually a dead draw late. I will go down to one vs decks with a few basics)
1 Deathrite Shaman (has been iffy lately, deathrite wars are not something that I enjoy)
1 Gaddock Teeg (combo killer, decent against miracles as well)
1 Scavenging Ooze (late game fattie)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (have been thinking about going to 4 with more of a maverick build.)
1 Reclamation Sage (the batterskull killer as a call it)
1 Eternal Witness (good in non-ooze/DRS matchups, thinking about a second)
1 Aven Mindcensor (has been on low end lately-probably getting cut for something bigger)
2 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Non-Dudes-22
3 Sensei's Divining Top (so glad it wasn't banned)
4 Cabal Therapy (best play on sunday....on the play-game 1, opponent mulls to 6.....I blind name brainstorm....hit 2. Yes, I crushed that game.)
1 Thoughtseize (I either want 0 or 2 in the main, this was kinda of odd)
2 Swords to Plowshares (seems to be a good number unless a lot of mirran crusaders are around, then 3)
3 Green Sun's Zenith (If I had more green creatures/less mystics, I'll go to 4)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Abrupt Decay (was 2 for a while, 3 seems better in a miracles meta)
2 Pernicious Deed (I sometimes missed the 3rd one vs the creature decks)
1 Toxic Deluge (Deluge isn't a bad replacement, however)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice (such a clock)
1 Batterskull (Voltron piece)

Lands-23 (I had been at 22 forever but mulligans were an issue)
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Windswepth Heath
3 Verdnant Catacombs
3 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas

Sideboard
1 Sword of Feast and Famine (I was considering cutting but it tons of work vs Omni)
1 Pithing Needle (last minute addition that wasn't bad vs Miracles and DRS)
2 Choke (I like making blue players cry)
1 Golgari Charm (Has been a staple in the 76 for a while, not main deckable right now but still very good)
1 Krosan Grip (Another late change...probably won me a game vs Omni. He saw it with a probe, so he never attempted to go off when I had 3 mana open)
1 Ethersworn Canonist (Been in the board for a while, Has been alright)
1 Thoughtseize (see above, depends on meta)
1 Dryad Militant (one of the oddballs. Sweet against storm/dredge and keeps a goyf in check at times)
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction (two of the flex spots-probably will be something else now)
2 Containment Priest (never was really relevant on Sunday but has shown value before)
1 Nether Void (As much as I love showing this card off, it hasn't done much lately. Dig is still good for 3 mana)
1 Humility (always had to cut this card...probably still won't)

Flyers still seem to be a problem for the deck. Thinking about Dromoka again.

[bruizar]

I don't think you ever want to cut down on veteran explorers. Being able to fast forward the early game to the late game is exactly why this deck is playable in the first place. Foregoing veteran explorer just makes this a slow deck full of bombs.

[Echelon]

Besides, vs. the (fair) decks running basics, you're going bigger then them anyway. I would have run Path to Exile over Swords though, if you need to eat your own creatures to safe yourself you're probably going to lose anyway.

[Bobmans]

Here's a junk list I've put together that I'd like to get on MTGO and start jamming in dailies. I'm not super-familiar with the metagame so no idea what I should be sideboarding. I mostly put this list together after looking at a lot of various ones in this topic.


3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Sun Titan

2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library
3 Pernicious Deed

2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Windswept Heath


SB:

2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Golgari Charm
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Leyline of the Void


Some questions I had:

-Is anyone familiar with the MTGO meta? Just wondering if there's any tuning I can do to the deck to make it better.
-I'm choosing to run non-top card selection. Is this still a good idea? That's also why I'm running Sun Titan, so I suppose if I just ran 3x top I could pick a different green 6-drop for that spot, too.
-Is a 3/4 split of DRS/Explorer still reasonable? I know I've seen some lists run only 1 DRS.
-Should Swords be Path to Exile instead? I imagine if we're giving people basics off Explorer we don't care about giving them basics via path.
-Baneslayer seems neat to brick Griselbrand, but I'm afraid since it's non-green it'll be hard to find. Is there something better I can run in that slot?

Appreciate any feedback you can give me. I haven't bought the cards yet (still trying to play games before I do) but this is what I've got so far.

I have no experience with MTGO and will keep it that way. That said.
The best way to go is just to start playing the list as is and tune it along you go based on your own experience.

The cards you are running instead of top are untested in NicFit, but with the threat of losing top that was exactly what i was planning on running. To be honest i actually am planning on running that instead of top just to see how it goes. Sun Titan is an excellent card to run next to this configuration. The thing with non green creatures in the deck is that somehow they keep floating up during the (long) games tou want them to.
Baneslayer on the other hand is a card you'd typically want faster, so one-of arent to great. I that some serious testing and had a number of tournaments where i ran Stormbreath Dragon. You will want to run 2 copies. They show up midgame pretty consistent and thats where youd want them. So the one Baneslayer is questionable, but with Sun Titan you dont want more copies.
Also you are very hihh in the mana curve with sun titan, dromoka, sigarda, baneslayer, tasigur and thragtusk. This needs fixing. Yes Tasigur often comes down as a one mana creatures, but still. Tasigur is an oddball anyway, with Eternal Witness, Volrath's Stronghold and a Sun Titan he might not be needed. Also Sigarda and Thrun in one deck is questionable. I would defenitly swap Thrun for Rhino nr 2. I'd probably just cut Baneslayer and Tasigur for Gaddock Teeg main and another swords or path.
Swords vs Path is to your preference. I personally play Path in NicFit since i hate to give 20 against Marit Lage.dec Also with symmetrical effect of Veteran Explorer the downside of Path can often be ignored or sometimes even there is no side effect.
Finally i prefer a 3/4 split between Veteran Explorer and Deathrite Shaman. But this depends on the meta/build.
DRS fixes ramp vs Combo/Burn/Miracles heavy meta where Veteran Explorer is less good. DRS also is a removal magnet which can be used in our benefit. Ie keeping Courser alive longer for him to create card advantage.

[Leoj]

I have no experience with MTGO and will keep it that way. That said.
The best way to go is just to start playing the list as is and tune it along you go based on your own experience.

The cards you are running instead of top are untested in NicFit, but with the threat of losing top that was exactly what i was planning on running. To be honest i actually am planning on running that instead of top just to see how it goes. Sun Titan is an excellent card to run next to this configuration. The thing with non green creatures in the deck is that somehow they keep floating up during the (long) games tou want them to.
Baneslayer on the other hand is a card you'd typically want faster, so one-of arent to great. I that some serious testing and had a number of tournaments where i ran Stormbreath Dragon. You will want to run 2 copies. They show up midgame pretty consistent and thats where youd want them. So the one Baneslayer is questionable, but with Sun Titan you dont want more copies.
Also you are very hihh in the mana curve with sun titan, dromoka, sigarda, baneslayer, tasigur and thragtusk. This needs fixing. Yes Tasigur often comes down as a one mana creatures, but still. Tasigur is an oddball anyway, with Eternal Witness, Volrath's Stronghold and a Sun Titan he might not be needed. Also Sigarda and Thrun in one deck is questionable. I would defenitly swap Thrun for Rhino nr 2. I'd probably just cut Baneslayer and Tasigur for Gaddock Teeg main and another swords or path.
Swords vs Path is to your preference. I personally play Path in NicFit since i hate to give 20 against Marit Lage.dec Also with symmetrical effect of Veteran Explorer the downside of Path can often be ignored or sometimes even there is no side effect.
Finally i prefer a 3/4 split between Veteran Explorer and Deathrite Shaman. But this depends on the meta/build.
DRS fixes ramp vs Combo/Burn/Miracles heavy meta where Veteran Explorer is less good. DRS also is a removal magnet which can be used in our benefit. Ie keeping Courser alive longer for him to create card advantage.

Thanks for the advice! I'll make some changes and start jamming test games. MTGO isn't ideal, but there's no one that plays Legacy around here and it's a pretty fun format, so that's what I'm stuck with. :P