[Primer] R/G Lands

[Chatto]

Welcome, welcome! I'm with barcode: usually it's the first cut after g1. Had some awesome blow-outs through Manabond, so untill I find something better they stay MD. Worm Harvest seems a fun option though , but not sure if they are MD-material.

EDIT: probably what Dice_Box says; SB-material.

[Dice_Box]

I almost always sideboard out Manabond. In fact I'm down to only one in the starting 60 and I don't regret it.

I agree to this. I am siding them out a lot of the time but that is normally when I am also bringing in answers or effects that slow down the game. You do not have such a need to break parity with land drops once you have things like Choke or Spheres to do that effect for you. You can slow down the game and then play a more traditional style that matches the strengths of the deck. I find myself also against decks with heavy Grave hate (Like DnT) siding them out and the Canopy. In this case it is not to gain an advantage with secondary effects but to remove some of the harm that a card like RIP will do to the deck.

I feel like taking out Manabond game's two and three is more often than not the best idea, but that is normally because you are honing your spear point and making your decks thrust far more directed. Cutting the fat so to speak and gaining advantages in other places. It is not really necessary to play more than one land a turn once everything costs 3 and you can Wasteland over and over.

[Sibelius]

Although Manabond gets sided out most games it is great game one. It has the chance to give you the turn 2 kill which is very important against an unknown opponent. When you know what they are playing then your sideboard is often straight up better than the manabond. For example in theory you want them in the Omni matchup because of the possible velocity they give. However you have probably just brought in 12 + cards. Firstly you need space for these and secondly you don't want to discard them to manabond so the two disadvantages mean you cut two. It just feels like you don't need the card because of the number of times you are cutting it but it just doesnt interact well with most of you board.

[barcode]

I agree to this. I am siding them out a lot of the time but that is normally when I am also bringing in answers or effects that slow down the game. You do not have such a need to break parity with land drops once you have things like Choke or Spheres to do that effect for you. You can slow down the game and then play a more traditional style that matches the strengths of the deck. I find myself also against decks with heavy Grave hate (Like DnT) siding them out and the Canopy. In this case it is not to gain an advantage with secondary effects but to remove some of the harm that a card like RIP will do to the deck.

I feel like taking out Manabond game's two and three is more often than not the best idea, but that is normally because you are honing your spear point and making your decks thrust far more directed. Cutting the fat so to speak and gaining advantages in other places. It is not really necessary to play more than one land a turn once everything costs 3 and you can Wasteland over and over.

The reason I take Manabond out is because I want to hold my K-grips (and other sideboard cards) in my hand and not discard them. I'm okay with the game going long because I will make it go long with Spheres and Trinisphere.

There's nothing to be gained from going crazy in post-board games on turn 1 and risking a Loam getting extracted to a sideboard Surgical.

[horrain]

Thanks for the warm welcome :)

Sounds like at the moment you have yet to get Mulliganing down.

Totally agree, upon reflection, I think I've fallen into the trap of thinking "Cool, have Manabond, should be able to do something utterly broken now", and being disappointed when it blows up in my face, rather than "Cool, have a situational Exploration, should be able to do something utterly broken in a couple of turns".

Going to try running a top 8 list for a bit, see if I can get my head around when/what to mulligan.

[Chatto]

If I'm not mistaking the last three posts are agreeing about the same thing

[GrimoirePath]

Played a small tourney this weekend.

Round 1 - Affinity

I win game one after a missed tabernacle trigger wipes his board. Game two my trinisphere holds him at bay, but his tormods crypts wipe my critical pieces. I finally make token but he has lots of dudes, and kills me. Game three i made a bad choice, and gambled for a tabernacle early. It played, but i should have grabbed the trinisphere. I lose.

Round 2 - I get the dang bye. Ugh. For fun I play against someone who isnt in the tourney who borrows a goblins deck. I win pretty handily, nothing to speak of.

Round 3 - RUG delver. Game one is brutal. I mull to five and he is quickly beating me up with Goyf and a flipped delver. However, when Im at three life, he has a waste and a tropical for lands, and I waste his trop, so he wastes my taiga. I crop rotate out the taiga for tabernacle and stabilize when he has no mana to pay for his dudes. I get combo pieces and am ready to generate token. He has one turn left, and for fucks sake, he lightning bolts me. Grrr!

Game two i dont remember other than he is able to counter all of my hate and outrace me.

Round 4 - Shardless BUG. These are looooong grindy games, and I take game one after establishing a strong board and plowing through with lage. Game two takes a while, as i keep beating up his mana while i trying to stabilize and get combo. He finally gets Lilliana on board and makes me sac lage, allowing him throu with Goyf. Game three is easier. He cant use deathrite to kill my loam (i found three pretty quickly) as Im killing his mana and he needs to eat lands to do anything. I boarded in Primetime and had him out on turn six or seven, grabbed combo, made Lage and smash.

I didnt have the points to play top four (damn bye) so the day ends pretty quickly (small tourney). Still fun though, and Im slowly getting better at figuring out what calls to make when. RG lands is no joke, offering a LOT of choices, meaning a lot of room for error.

Seeing that David Long took third in Richmond gives me hope.

[snorlaxcom]

Round 1 - Affinity

I win game one after a missed tabernacle trigger wipes his board. Game two my trinisphere holds him at bay, but his tormods crypts wipe my critical pieces. I finally make token but he has lots of dudes, and kills me. Game three i made a bad choice, and gambled for a tabernacle early. It played, but i should have grabbed the trinisphere. I lose.

Trinisphere is probably one of the worst cards vs affinity on the draw. Just side in 3-4 grips for equipment, needle, or crypt. They should have their hand on the table before sphere hits and you only slow down your window for onedrops and pfire to take over the game. Get chasm, gg.

[barcode]

Trinisphere is probably one of the worst cards vs affinity on the draw. Just side in 3-4 grips for equipment, needle, or crypt. They should have their hand on the table before sphere hits and you only slow down your window for onedrops and pfire to take over the game. Get chasm, gg.

Agreed with 3Sphere. I wouldn't bring it in at all, I think. The matchup is just too fast. You're better off with your Chalice of the Void and Krosan Grip. Everything dies to Punishing Fire or is dealt with by Maze of Ith. I don't see how this match is losable given tight play.

[GrimoirePath]

Thanks for the advice. After I play against a deck multiple times, i generally figure out what i need to do to consistently win. I just need that playtime against a lot of variant archetypes.

[Rivfader]

David Long makes so many top8's these days, it's almost becoming normal :), mayor props to him. I found his list with the 4 maindecked Depths very interesting, it seems that an emphasis on the combo serves Lands better than the value of a singleton Karakas or Bog in this meta. I do like it and will try this as well, although multiple Depths can clog things up.

[Dice_Box]

I guess it is dependent on what you expect to face. Since you can tutor for what you place in that slot, it can matter greatly what you use it for. Not questioning success though. That man knows what he is doing and I tip my hat to him.

[Chatto]

Quick question: how do people feel about boarding Exploration out against Miracles? Putting in multiple Sphere-effects, Choke and Boseiju.

[barcode]

Quick question: how do people feel about boarding Exploration out against Miracles? Putting in multiple Sphere-effects, Choke and Boseiju.

My plan for Miracles is:

+1 Boseiju
+1 Choke
+2 Trinisphere
+2 Chalice of the Void
+4 Krosan Grip

-3 Crop Rotation
-1 Manabond
-3 Maze of Ith
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Dark Depths

Exploration is very important to getting a mana advantage so you can cast Trinisphere and other hate cards. Later, being able to Loam back Stage and Depths and play both in the same turn is very powerful indeed.

[Chatto]

True, and I have always kept Exploration in, I was just wondering if there was another possibility. I have no intention to rush things and really slowrolling manadenial them sounded like a plausible alternative.

[Darkgobs]

My plan for Miracles is:

+1 Boseiju
+1 Choke
+2 Trinisphere
+2 Chalice of the Void
+4 Krosan Grip

-3 Crop Rotation
-1 Manabond
-3 Maze of Ith
-1 Bojuka Bog
-1 Glacial Chasm
-1 Dark Depths

Wenn I can, I try to keep Boujka in against Miracle too, especially if they are playing with Snappy. If not, it still makes our taxes effect + denial way more effective to avoid they to DTT, which help them a lot to find answer to our hate. But sure, I'd rather have 1 Trinisphere / Choke etc than 1 Bojuka if I had to choose.

But I wonder about the -1 DD. I'd rather -1 THicket than DD in such a M-U. (unless they are playing Surgical, which is quite unusual). Or -1 P.fire.

[barcode]

Wenn I can, I try to keep Boujka in against Miracle too, especially if they are playing with Snappy. If not, it still makes our taxes effect + denial way more effective to avoid they to DTT, which help them a lot to find answer to our hate. But sure, I'd rather have 1 Trinisphere / Choke etc than 1 Bojuka if I had to choose.

But I wonder about the -1 DD. I'd rather -1 THicket than DD in such a M-U. (unless they are playing Surgical, which is quite unusual). Or -1 P.fire.

Games are going to go long and I don't want depths jamming my hand up. One of the goals is to Chalice for 1 to stop Surgical Extraction (and thus protect Loams and other pieces). I have found that Punishing Fire is very important in the matchup since it's the way to answer Jace, Angels, Snapcaster and now Mentors. It could be right to only have 3, however! I actually have a test session in a few hours against Miracles and I'll try that one out. :)

I am pretty sure 2 depths after board is correct since the game will go long and I want to leverage Thicket and dredges to find them.

[Jo11ygrnreefer]

You guys think Animist's Awakening has a home here?

[barcode]

You guys think Animist's Awakening has a home here?

Read back a few pages. tl;dr - not impressed.

[UnsungHero]

Lands on Camera at SCGDC. Sadly its against Omni-Derp.