Mud is just already a pretty easy matchup, I don't think we need a bullet for them. If you want, there is a dragon that gains control of all their artifacts when he hits, but that seems super narrow to me for a matchup that is already favorable. As an aside, dack is hilarious in that matchup.
edit: @pirate, I agree, entirely, my view on archetype is that it allows griselbrand to be that creature in more matchups, by increasing his resiliency.
I try and get Griselbrand just to try and find a Force of Will for that key spell, typically Kuldotha Forgemaster or Staff of Domination, and then just try and kill them as fast as possible. After that, next card choices would be Elesh Norn to kill their Metalworker, but they can recover from that. A very early Sire of Insanity is always good, they'll have a hard time rebuilding a position. We really don't have an artifact silver bullet, though as I write this I'm more and more keen on one or two Dack Fayden. I guess if MUD is a huge issue you could bring out Hellkite Tyrant lol
Originally Posted by GreatWhale
Hello everyone! I am thinking of building reanimator as I've recently acquired 3 underground seas, and I wanted to get some feedback before I fully commit to one particular version...
1) how well positioned is it in the current dtt infested metagame? From the test matches I've had on cockatrice it seems to be exceptionally strong against the most widely played combo decks (omnitell, ant, elves), which is one of the main incentives to play it. It should also crush stuff built to prey on fair decks such as lands and loam strategies, while still having an OK mu against most delver decks. I figure rest in peace is also at an all-time low since everyone wants to be delving right now.
What worries me, except for drs, is the miracles match-up, which seems pretty miserable on paper and from my limited experience. Is a fast Iona on white with fow for jace our best course of action here?
2) for a time, it looked like gemstone caverns could actually be real in this deck, but all recent lists I have seen se to have moved away from them... Has it been pretty much established that they are not worth the loss in consistency?
3) another thing I haven't seen around for a while are the hybrid young Frankenstein lists... Izzet charm is already a great card for reanimator, and having an additional angle of attack (with a possible transformational sb including a playset of delvers, since we run more spells then any delver lists) seems like a very good reason to go full grixis. This would probably entail dropping the green splash to avoid further weakening an already fragile mana base, but their post board hate would probably look quite silly while they're getting swamped by delver and young peezy. Thoughts on this tentative list?
4 young pyromancer
2 griselbrand
1 Iona
1 elesh norn
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 daze
4 gitaxian probe
4 force of will
4 izzet charm
4 entomb
4 reanimate
3 exhume
3 underground sea
3 volcanic island
1 badlands
9 fetches
Sb:
1 inkwell leviathan
4 cabal therapy
4 delver of secrets
3 pyroblast
1 grave purge
2 flustersorm
The idea is that you could totally transform into a tempo/reactive deck post board if you don't think the reanimate plan is going to work or if your opponent is overloading on hate, while also threatening to get back on the reanimation plan on a moment's notice...
I was trying something very similar for a while and the problem was that I was giving up too many percentage points game 1, for not enough points in post board games. The main problem being that some decks have game against both strategies, and not having real sideboard cards to answer those strategies made things very difficult.
1) The decks that pack DTT are slower than ours so we are favored. I haven't had enough practice with Grixis Control but I imagine Elesh Norn does the job kills everything except for the angler which Elesh can kill via a block. Inkwell Leviathan provides a fast clock vs miracles. Aetherling is also pretty devestating vs Miracles. Though if you have Iona and want to reanimate her, you usually choose the removal color which is White in this case.
2) Gemstone caverns generates way too much card disadvantage/relies it being on the opening hand and doesn't provide colored mana if you draw it. Joe Lossett is a great player but I disagree highly with that plan. Lotus Petals can help power out a turn 1 reanimation and be color fixing.
3) The problem with young frankenstein was it's either a weak young pyro deck or a weak reanimator deck. Also Monastery Mentor is making waves in Legacy so sweeper effects are going to come back with a vengeance like they did during the U/R delver era.
Someone may be working on a new Reanimator Primer, they messaged me here and it would be nice to see it continue in the right hands as I have been rather inactive as of late. Whenever that happens, follow his thread as it will be more up to date than this one. ^.^
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
From a Lands point a view, Reanimator isn't the crushing matchup you think it is (depending on having Bojuka Bog / Karakas maindecked). It can be hard for Reanimator to push through 3 Mazes, Karakas, Glacial Chasm and Bojuka Bog before our own unfair fatty pops up.
The only losses I have ever taken to lands involved things like turn one mana bond into marit lage, otherwise, tidespout tyrant makes the matchup an actual cakewalk. where I play (and online), lands players tend to run bog and karakas main.
Last edited by Stryfo; 07-23-2015 at 01:58 PM.
Tyrant is indeed what I fear most. Still I prefer playing against Reanimator, than matchups like Storm or Omnitell that really do crush Lands. At the very least Lands has some direct interaction with Reanimator's graveyard and creatures, besides the possibility of a quick Marit Lage.
Personally I've had a good amount of losses, but I've had my fair share of wins as well, so I perceive it more as a challenging but manageable matchup, rather than a crushing mu.
So I thought I'd just share some general thoughts about this deck. A friend of mine has been playing this deck ever since we started playing legacy, about 4 years ago. And as our legacy community is very limited, it's mostly been him and me playing over and over. I've been playing lots of different decks throughout the years but he's always been on reaminater. Here's some things we've concluded:
This deck does not need more than 2 UG sea. I don't know how many basics he's got in his deck currently, but I believe around 5. He's very happy with it, and it's most def been proved to be just fine and probably better than running the full playset.
Best way to deal with Karakas is to play Grave Titan.
He doesn't run Ponder and been doing very well without it. He has some extra discard instead of those
Lotus Petal is great.
Blood Moons in the SB are awesome. Great suprise factor, deals with troublesome lands and sometimes wins matches on its own. I really recommend this card. Having Lotus Petals is nessecary though
He's never been a fan of Tidespout Tyrant. I'm not sure myself about the card
Engineered Explosives > Pithing Needle. Needle is not even needed. Explosvies deals with shamans, priests, cage, chalice etc etc
Containment Priest is the best card against this deck
Counterbalance is tough.
Daze is great.
Some thoughts are obvious I guess. There are more stuff we've learned about the deck, I'll add them when they come to mind
Thanks everyone for your quick and insightful replies. I agree that lotus petal is probably better than caverns, especially when you're running tidesprout tyrant.
I also understand the argument that, if reanimator is a winning strategy in your meta, it's probably better not to dilute it and slow it down, and dedicating your sideboard slots to robust, reliable anti-hate cards like abrupt decay.
On that note, do you feel like a sb show and tell plan is necessary to fight through the hate? I've never really liked that card but it might end up being necessary against opponents stacking surgicals/leylines on top of shamans...
Engineered Explosives is good, but to say Pithing Needle isn't needed is a bit much. Problem lands and planeswalkers like Jace or even Karn and Ugin are going to be untouchable with EE alone. Pithing Needle is a quality "fire and forget" permanent that won't require a full turn to play and a second to blow. If your friend doesn't value Tidespout, I'd say he either hasn't played enough games or has a meta that I'd be envious of. I'll admit he's a level above a necessary evil, I'd be nice if there was something a little better than return to hand; but getting permanents off tho board without targeting restrictions is something we're always going to need, and being able to Entomb for it is one of the better ways we can manage. As far as Containment Priest goes, sure it sucks in response to our spells, especially off AEther Vial, but I'd much rather that then Extirpate or Rest in Peace. At least with Priest on the board, we can still develop our graveyard, making the most out of our Careful Studies, before we try again. In the face of RiP, we can't do much of anything except find a way to remove it or dig for Show and Tell.litenkatt
Myself and a few others here have moved past Show and Tell in the side, opting instead for cards like Abrupt Decay and Echoing Truth to remove obstacles to our graveyard. We're a weak Show and Tell deck, and worse, some opponents will preemptive anticipate that route and side accordingly, negating somewhat the entire exercise in having alternative pathways to victory.Luca Grease
I do have some problems with boarding strategies.
Maybe you can help me and tell me how you board against the following decks.
Merfolk
Punishing Jund
Miracles
OmniTell
Elves
Reanimator
BUG Delver
ANT-Storm
Death and Taxes
For me:
Merfolk: -1 Reanimate -1 Exhume -2 Daze +2 Show and Tell +2 Abrupt Decay. Iona or Elesh Norn being my goto targets.
Punishing Jund: -2 Careful Study -1 Misdirection -3 Daze -2 Exhume +2 Show and Tell +1 Pithing Needle +1 Grave Titan +3 Abrupt Decay. If I see Leyline of the Void Game 3 I'll bring in my single Chain of Vapor in favor of another abrupt decay
Miracles: -1 Iona -3 Daze -2 Careful Study +1 Pithing Needle +3 Abrupt Decay +2 Flusterstorm. With Mentor becoming more popular Dread of Night might come in and I cut more careful studies.
Elves: -3 Daze -2 Careful Study -1 Exhume +3 Thoughtseize +3 Abrupt Decay +1 Pithing Needle
Omnitell: To be honest I haven't been playing Reanimator much when Omnitell has been running rampant, since even mulling to 2 with an Iona in your hand is enough to scare most Mono-U players. Though -1 Elesh Norn -1 Empyrial
Archangel -2 Daze -1 Lotus Petal +2 Flusterstorm +3 Thoughtseize
BUG: -2 Reanimate -2 Daze -1 Lotus Petal +2 Abrupt Decay +2 Show and Tell +1 Show and Tell. I honestly hate Shardless's matchup more if it gets drawn out. Being on the receiving end of a resolved Jace and Liliana blows.
Storm: -3 Daze -1 Elesh Norn -1 Empyrial Archangel -2 Exhume -2 Careful Study +2 Flusterstorm +2 Show and Tell +2 Abrupt Decay +3 Thoughtseize
I can help, but not without a list. Edit your list into your previous post and I'll edit my plans on this post.
Thanks for your answers.
My list ist the following:
4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Grave Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
3 Exhume
2 Show and Tell
1 Animate Dead
1 Misdirection
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
Need one more land not sure about a second swamp or island or watery grave.
I am not sure about the sideboard yet.
2 Show and Tell
1 Aetherling against the Miracle match up
Maybe 2-3 Abrupt Decay
Maybe 1-2 Pithing Needle
Then Flusterstorm and/or Spell Pierce
Maybe Thoughtseize
My meta is the following:
1x Elves
1-2x Reanimator
1x ANT
1-2x Merfolk
1x Dredge
1x Punishing-Jund
1x BUG Delver
2-3x Miracles
1x Omniscience
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Cockatrice: Deckerator
(
) Reanimator
Death&Taxes
Hiere is my list http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-07-15-reanimator/. Our metas are kind of similar. I would start by cutting 1 Grizzel main for ether 1 Inkwell or 1 Archetype.
Why do you play Helm of Obedience?
Why do you play Keranos without a single red source except for Lotus Petal?
Your SB should put into account for hate
Inkwell Leviathan would be fine for the Miracles Matchup and can be used against the other blue decks if you dont have Iona out
Sire of Insanity is a back breaker since you have 4 petals you can power out on turn 1 at times so consider it
You have Bayou and Trop Abrupt decay should be a 3-4 of SB
Flusterstorm is okay here
If you don't have Thoughtseize mained at least put it in the SB.
Pithing Needle is always a good pick
Might want to consider a bounce card somewhere, AD does not hit Leyline of the Void which may rear it's head in the Dredge/Reanimator Mirror.
Keranos is a reanimation target that gets past Humility, Containment Priest, and that new 1W card from origins since Reanimator lacks devotion to put Keranos into play as a creature. It's a long play card that tends to be a lightning bolt a turn or extra draw into another answer. I personally don't like this card but other users here have had some success with it.
Helm of Obedience- Makes people's grave hate backfire on them. It's a bit cute for my tastes but utterly hilarious.
Thanks, do you like your two copies of thoughtseize?
Are 15 lands enough for you or do you get problems?
After your advice i try
-1 Griselbrand
+ 1 Inkwell
I am not sure how good Sire of Insanity is?
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Cockatrice: Deckerator
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