[Deck] Goblins

[Tokugawa]

Most players claim that their deck has a positive MU vs. Goblins.

"Even include some Miracle players."

[ScatmanX]

I'm pretty sure it's ScatmanX. Dude does his homework and puts in the required work. Although there is also an excellent chance it's some guy in Japan I have no knowledge of.

You made my day <3
But I totally think that's not truth, except for the Japan part. There always a japonese person that does what you do better. Always.

[woodjt5]

Most players claim that their deck has a positive MU vs. Goblins. Ask them how Many games they tested against Goblins before making that Statement and that's all you need to know. You need to trust your own results and my results are telling me that D&T is a positive MU, even more so with additional copies of MWM and Krenko.

My thoughts exactly.

[KZhang]

Hey all!

I've been looking for a new deck in legacy to play for sometime, and have settled on Goblins.

I've noticed a few different bulls thus far,
1) Traditional Red
2) Winstigator lists with chrome mix
3) Black splash for Therapys, Earwig Squad and Grenzo.

Can anyone share what the benefits or each type of build is? And what are some of the key weaknesses of each version?

Also, not all lists run the full complement of wastelands and ports or goblin piledrivers. Is there a reason why?

[woodjt5]

Hey all!

I've been looking for a new deck in legacy to play for sometime, and have settled on Goblins.

I've noticed a few different bulls thus far,
1) Traditional Red
2) Winstigator lists with chrome mix
3) Black splash for Therapys, Earwig Squad and Grenzo.

Can anyone share what the benefits or each type of build is? And what are some of the key weaknesses of each version?

Also, not all lists run the full complement of wastelands and ports or goblin piledrivers. Is there a reason why?

I'll let you in on a little secret about traditional red Goblins. It isn't really an aggro deck. Sure, you get nut draws with goblin Lackey that let you kill as early as turn 3, but most games go much longer. You control the game with removal, card advantage, and a toolbox of bullets. Goblin Piledriver is your best threat, but he is only good when attacking. This deck does a lot of blocking, so Piledriver isn't always the best 2-drop. Mogg War Marshal is an excellent compliment.

Conversely, Port is a control-ish card. If you're playing a more aggressive build or a build that relies a lot on RR mana costs, 4 can be too many. For example, I only run two.

The Winstigator builds are more aggressive. They trade the cost reduction of Warchief for the explosiveness of Warren Instigator, which requires the deck to attack and connect to function. Chrome Mox lets them do that more effectively.

[ScatmanX]

Can anyone share what the benefits or each type of build is? And what are some of the key weaknesses of each version?

You can check the opening post of the thread, that GobboLord keeps up to date for us. It answers all those questions and many more.

[woodjt5]

You can check the opening post of the thread, that GobboLord keeps up to date for us. It answers all those questions and many more.

I just looked at Page 1 for the first time in a long time. Excellently done, GoboLord. Great source of information.

[KZhang]

I just looked at Page 1 for the first time in a long time. Excellently done, GoboLord. Great source of information.

The opening post was a great read! I couldnt find anything on the RB version though. Why do people play them over the traditional red version?

[Sockosensei]

I couldnt find anything on the RB version though. Why do people play them over the traditional red version?

Have a look at some of the articles and posts by Sandro95.
This one from earlier in the year is a starting point.


On a separate note, I'm slowly foiling out my Vial Goblins. If any of you have extras and would like to trade, please send me a PM.
I'm still looking for the 4th Vial (FTV), a set of Gempalm Incinerators, and Lackeys. I can offer Japanese cube, EDH, and legacy staples. Thanks!

[ScatmanX]

The opening post was a great read! I couldnt find anything on the RB version though. Why do people play them over the traditional red version?

B offers a few cards that are very good:
Earwig Squad: Excellent against Miracle, and great against many decks that rely on 1-2 ofs. Slow against Combo, but very good when connects.
Discard: Great against combo decks, ok against some other decks.
Warrens Weirdings: Great agains TNN, not so great nowaydays against many more things.
Frogtosser Banneret, Mad Auntie, Wort: No one uses these any more. Better options exist in red.
Other random B SB cards: Again, I'm from the opinion that we have better options in R.

My conclusion: Unless you're looking to have an exceptionally good Miracles MU, or having a decent game against Combo, B splash is not needed right now.

[goblinpiledriver]

Grenzo is pretty sweet in black splash. In grindy matchups he is a must-answer value machine. Krenko may serve a similar role in a sense, but he is twice the mana and can't activate the turn he comes out without a haste lord. Also Grenzo can activate multiple times per turn.

The bonus interaction vs clique and terminus is great. Even against a fatesealing jtms.

Both cards have their merit, so I don't think it's a one or the other type situation. I don't mean to make this a Grenzo vs Krenko argument, just noting similarity in roles

[Stevestamopz]

Grenzo is pretty sweet in black splash. In grindy matchups he is a must-answer value machine. Krenko may serve a similar role in a sense, but he is twice the mana and can't activate the turn he comes out without a haste lord. Also Grenzo can activate multiple times per turn.

The bonus interaction vs clique and terminus is great. Even against a fatesealing jtms.

Both cards have their merit, so I don't think it's a one or the other type situation. I don't mean to make this a Grenzo vs Krenko argument, just noting similarity in roles

What's your current list looking like dude?

[kinda]

B offers a few cards that are very good:
Earwig Squad: Excellent against Miracle, and great against many decks that rely on 1-2 ofs. Slow against Combo, but very good when connects.
Discard: Great against combo decks, ok against some other decks.
Warrens Weirdings: Great agains TNN, not so great nowaydays against many more things.
Frogtosser Banneret, Mad Auntie, Wort: No one uses these any more. Better options exist in red.
Other random B SB cards: Again, I'm from the opinion that we have better options in R.

My conclusion: Unless you're looking to have an exceptionally good Miracles MU, or having a decent game against Combo, B splash is not needed right now.

3 chrome Mox plus 4 matron plus 8 lackey plus 1-3 earwig squad seems solid vs Omni/storm/miracles/grixis pyro/stone forge. You just need 1 of 8 lackeys plus a chrome Mox plus matron or earwig in hand to turn 2 drop squad. Even lackey into ringleader turn 2 can set it up.

[Morkus]

This month was great for a goblin player who have played only 3 small tournaments last year.
3,4,5 July I went to GP Lille and 25, 26 July MKM Series in Toulouse.
I played more games than previous year !

I made some very interresting meet like Gobolord.
I was happy to put a picture on a pseudo I read for years.
I saw how Winstigator list is different than mine
Just cross Sandro but we were busy. Sure we have to make our duel next time !

The list change a little between each tournement.
Mainly, I drop 1x matron, 1x port, 1x pyro and add 1x Stingscrouger and 1x mogg fanatic
Sideboard :
- Chalice of the void decrease from 4 to 1 (I love this card but I want other card to complete combo hate)
- Thorn of Amethyst increase from 0 to 1 (2 next time)
- 2 Relic of Progenitus and 1 Surgical Extraction was great (tarmo, mangouste, delve, dredge, garden..)
I will try one more Surgical Extraction with 1x maindeck instead of Pyro
- Despite by Leyline of Sanctity. Even versus burn I lost due to Eidolon and 3x Searing Blaze
- I won my first combo match without luck versus Ant
(+2 Mindbreak Trap +1 Cotv +1 Neddle +1 Thorn +2 relic +1 Surgical)

Maindeck (61thtter card is 23th land)

Lands
11 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
1 Pendelhaven

Core
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Matron

Toolbox
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Sparksmith
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Ligthning Crafter
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander

Removal
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Tarfire
2 Stingscourger
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Ratchet Bomb

Sideboard

2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Chaos Wrap
1 Stingscourger
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Shattering Spree
2 Red Elemental Blast

For Gobolord Stats :

* 3 July : Infinite Legacy Trials fo GP main Legacy Event
I played 7 trials and made 2 semi-final so I didn't win any bye
2x Infect (0-2)
2x Miracle (2-0) [Our best matchup]
1x Grixis Delver (2-0)
1x Grixis Delver (0-2)
2x BUG (2-1)
1x combo DarkDepths Sortimage (0-2)
1x Death And Taxes (1-2)
.. forgot others

* 4 July GP main Legacy Event (~1540 players)
R1 Finnish (BUG) lose TOSS
G1 win with mana denial
G2 lose Deathrite + Tarmo
G3 win 2 stingscourger and relic (good tempo)
(1-0-0)

R2 Netherland (Affinity) Lose TOSS
G1 He mull 5 and start T1: Memnite, mox opal, land arto, Vault Skirge T2 plating, T3 Etched Champion
I played T1 lackey, T2 stingscourger, lackey connect in Warchief
He wanted a race, He had 24Pvs and His next turn was lethal.
I vial in Warchief play matron -> matron -> piledriver !

G2 Keep Mountain, Tarfire, pyrokinesis, krenko, 2 ringleader, warchief and draw gempalm
I can manage the board and kill ravager with 10 (+1/+1)
(2-0-0)

R3 French (DarkDepths-sortimage) Lose TOSS
G1 He played T1 DarkDepths I waste T2 DarkDepths T3 Urborg sortimage and kill me
G2 (mull 5) T1 lackey He toughseize me (my other gob)
TOPDECK SCG connect with lackey GG
G3 T3 DarkDepths+sortimage. I didn't draw 1 of my 3 stingscourger :(
(2-0-1)

R4 German (BUG) win TOSS
G1 Shaman and TrueName killed me
G2 2x TrueName but I overextend with Krenko
G3 (long and difficult) He started with 2 shaman. I won because I think I draw all my removal
(3-0-1)

R5 French (BURN) Lose TOSS
He played with only one hand due to a big operation the day before
G1 He won quietly
G2 Mull 6 for Leyline of sanctity (found) but no effect !
(3-0-2)

R6 French (Shardless BUG) Lose TOSS
G1 long Card Avantage game : He cascade 2x Ancestral Vision
Pyrokinesis clear the board.. but lose
G2 2x Golgari Charm and Night of Souls' Betrayal were too strong
(3-0-3)

R7 Austria (Girl with combo Red EmptyTheWarren Charbelcher) Win the Toss
G1 Mountain Lackey Go
She puts 18 Goblins 8(
G2 T1 Lackey T2 Lackey connect in SCG She played 12 goblins
But I can wait some gobs and pyrokinesis
G3 She mulls 6, I keep 5 (lackey, prospector, 3 lands). She let me start
T1 Mountain Lackey Go. She played 12 goblins
T2 Draw Lackey. Play second lackey and prospector
She attacks with 12 goblins. Block 2 and keep one lackey. Take 10
T3 Draw matron. lackey connect in matron search and play sharpshooter
T3 she attacks All in and I can block one for keeping 1 PV and active sharpshooter is enough
I play Pithing needle on charbelcher and it was a good idea she drew it
(4-0-3)

R8 (Grixis Delver)
Lose 2-0
(4-0-4)

R9 (Paired with Sandro but He was busy and I couldn't find him to play later)

* 5 July Legacy GP Side Event (~300 players)
R1 (Grixis Delver)
(1-0-0)

R2 (Miracle)
(2-0-0)

R3 (Miracle) Draw. Not enough time for the third game.
G1 win easy
G2 long game. It stay 2 minutes before extra rounds and I shuffle his Entreat the Angels with surgical extraction but drew it again one turn later !
(2-1-0)

R4 and R5 are the same game (spanish with Mono Black control)
Like smallpox
G1 win
G2 lose
G3 not enough gaz to win -> Draw
Discard and Liliana block ringleader CA
Pithing Needle block Vial
Engeneering Plague slow down our army
Cursed Scroll is dangerous
(2-3-0)

R6 (UR Delver)
Lose 2-0
(2-3-1)

R7 (Garden)
Won 1-0 (long first game, tabernacle and recurring punishing fire)
We can't terminate the second game)
He locked me with Glacial Chasm/Thespian's Stage
and I block His recurring dark depths with recurring stingscourger/kiki-jiki
My wasteland never come.
I was very happy by my start game. Mull 6 and I keep Wasteland, 2 relic, 2 vial, 1 matron
I can remove 2 Loam, tabernacle and on punishing while my vials increase at @3 and @4 and play goblins !


* 25 July Heros Legacy MKM Series Side event (34 players)
R1 Miracle (win 2-0)
R2 Show and tell (win 2-0)
G1 T2 Show and Tell put Emrakul, I have stingscourger
G2 T3 Show and Tell put Emrakul, I put matron search stingscourger and play it next turn
Easier than S&T omniscience
R3 Grixis Delver (draw)
R4 Grixis Delver (win 2-0)
R5 Intentional Draw
TOP8
1/4 final lose 2-0 versus spannish with Grixis Delver who I won R4
Cabal therapy + Gitaxian Probe and Young Pyromancer is strong
Electrickery hurts too

* 26 July MKM Series (104 players)
R1 (GRu) 2-0 (I tasted Rough/Tumble)
(1-0-0)
R2 (Miracle) 2-0
G2 I killed my rush with 2x Izzet Staticaster
Nevertheless I can kill one Staticaster EOT and I have prospector, lackey, ringleader and vial@3
I have 2x matron and tarfire in hand. 5 lands. (I have 20pv he was 10)
First main phase I gempalm the second one, His response was Staticaster on lackey. I vial in matron (search warchief) for 3 gobs and sac lackey for Red mana.
Red in pull and 2 lands. Play warchief sac ringleader for Rmana and 1 mana from land. play matron for piledriver. sac matron for Rmana. Play piledriver. Attack for 8 (prospector, warchief, piledriver)
sac piledriver for Rmana -> Tarfire = game
(2-0-0)
R3 (GUr) TrueName+Tarmo 1-2
G3 I have 2 turns for drawing any goblins
(2-0-1)
R4 (GUr) He won HerosLegacy where I made top8 the previous day
Lose 1
Win 2 and 3 with stingscourger and Krenko facing 3 tarmo
(3-0-1)
R5 (Manaless Dredge) interresting
G1 Massacre with fast army of Zombies
G2 I surgical extraction his first dredger (imp) + lackey
Lackey connect warchief + piledriver. Win
G3 THE MISSPLAY I keep a good hand after mulligan6 (Cavern of souls, wasteland, lackey, warchief, matron, pyrokinesis)
T0 he shown Chancellor of the Annex and sadly I didn't understand I can play Lackey with cavern !
I wait one turn and revelling our hands, we aggred it was the game
(3-0-2)
R6 (Burn) Lose 2-0
R7 (ANT) win 2-1 (sideboard card gave me the game : yes)

[goblinpiledriver]

What's your current list looking like dude?

my list is currently:
4 lackey
4 piledriver
4 matron
4 warchief
4 ringleader
2 stingscourger
1 tin street hooligan
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 skirk prospector
1 lightning crafter
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1 gempalm incinerator
1 earwig squad
1 grenzo, dungeon warden
1 goblin sharpshooter

2 tarfire

4 aether vial

4 cavern of souls
4 wasteland
3 rishadan port
6 red fetches
3 mountain
1 badlands
1 taiga
1 plateau

SIDEBOARD
3 krosan grip
3 pyroblast
2 chalice of the void
2 pyrokinesis
2 relic of progenitus
1 ethersworn canonist
1 rest in peace
1 warren weirding

I think I'll replace lightning crafter with siege gang commander, as I miss playing him.

[Raznaak]

I'll try something in the next local tournament, so I will post my list here so you can share your thoughts.

I wanna try two comboes:
1: Kiki-Jikki+Restoration Angel (which is nice even outside of the combo, since we have a shitload of EtB effects and it could save a creature from death)
2: Kiki-Jikki+Lighning Crafter+Skirk Prospector

The list:
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Ringleader
3x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Matron
4x Aether Vial
1x Goblin Piledriver
1x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Tarfire
2x Goblin Incinerator
1x Lignthing Crafter
1x Stingscourger
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Tin-Street Hooligan
3x Talia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Restoration Angel

Lands:
6x (Fetches)
4x Cavern of Souls
3x Wasteland
3x Plateau
5x Mountain
1x Taiga

Sideboard
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Rest In Peace
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Wear//Tear
2x Pyrokinesis
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Goblin Settler
1x Legion Loyalist

[goblinpiledriver]

I used to have a restoration angel in my build. It's pretty good imo, I just took it out because I wanted a change of pace. Might put it back in at some point.

[Chatto]

I'll try something in the next local tournament, so I will post my list here so you can share your thoughts.

I wanna try two comboes (...)

- decklist -

Yeah, I don't know. It feels like you are trying too much. I could be wrong, but it looks awefully slow as well.

[goblinpiledriver]

Yeah, I don't know. It feels like you are trying too much. I could be wrong, but it looks awefully slow as well.

That's a good point about speed. If you're running a slow build (like myself) at least 2-3 rishadan port would be good

[Raznaak]

Huh, I forgot to add 2x Mogg War Marshall.

Yeah, it may be a bit slow, but I'll try it nonetheless. My meta is weird, so it may work... It's or too fast and I can't do anything whatsoever (Talia may help here, Canonist too) or really slow with heavy control (so I have time to put the pieces in place to go out when they are not attentive), there's close to no "medium-paced" decks, only combos or control...
There is the occasional "fair" deck, but it's rare.