[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Whitefaces]

Just started to play the deck, here's my list, any thoughts?

which is horrible and imo shows a clear lack of actual testing against this tier 1 metagame deck.

Can you not read?

Rather than jump down someones throat at any opportunity, help them out.

[Lemnear]

Can you not read?

Rather than jump down someones throat at any opportunity, help them out.

Jona, Martin, Jamie and I did, telling that if you don't understand why decks are build a certain way, don't mess with them.

What do you expect how I react to a list with a lot of changes which aren't even justified by any means or explained at all? Why should I take the time to adress the issues in this forum, if there wasn't even time put into handing reasoning or testing?

[Bahamuth]

Jona, Martin, Jamie and I did, telling that if you don't understand why decks are build a certain way, don't mess with them.

What do you expect how I react to a list with a lot of changes which aren't even justified by any means or explained at all? Why should I take the time to adress the issues in this forum, if there wasn't even time put into handing reasoning or testing?

So please don't. You are not required to post.

[d0nkey]

So please don't. You are not required to post.

The OP did ask for any thoughts.

Lem gave a thought.

[Whitefaces]

Jona, Martin, Jamie and I did, telling that if you don't understand why decks are build a certain way, don't mess with them.

What do you expect how I react to a list with a lot of changes which aren't even justified by any means or explained at all? Why should I take the time to address the issues in this forum, if there wasn't even time put into handing reasoning or testing?

He's not 'messing' with the deck. As he said, he's new to it and this is his beginning list and wants advice. How hard is that to understand?

Everyone else offered something positive. You offered zero help, rather, you were needlessly aggressive.

If you have nothing constructive to say, don't say it. Don't take the time to address issues if you don't actually address them in any meaningful way.

[d0nkey]

He's not 'messing' with the deck. As he said, he's new to it and this is his beginning list and wants advice. How hard is that to understand?

Everyone else offered something positive. You offered zero help, rather, you were needlessly aggressive.

If you have nothing constructive to say, don't say it. Don't take the time to address issues if you don't actually address them in any meaningful way.

He's a bit harsh, but he's correct. There are 150+ pages of info on the deck, and if you can't be bothered to even look at the last few pages then too bad.

[davelin]

He's not 'messing' with the deck. As he said, he's new to it and this is his beginning list and wants advice. How hard is that to understand?

Everyone else offered something positive. You offered zero help, rather, you were needlessly aggressive.

If you have nothing constructive to say, don't say it. Don't take the time to address issues if you don't actually address them in any meaningful way.

Lem likes to offer what most would probably characterize as 'tough love'

[Whitefaces]

Sure, I get it, he's a hardass and plays storm a lot. Big fucking whoop. And I agree, the poster should read the thread to get a better understanding of the deck. Seems like you're the first person to point that out, though.

My point is, Lem added nothing constructed. He then had the audacity to complain about having to spend his time to address such 'issues' when he did quite the contrary.

Anyway, this is quite pointless so I'll break it off here. It's just a really shitty way to welcome someone playing a new archetype.

[rw1347]

Heya guys, first time posting here. Wanted to get an opinion on whats the better white hate currently, Massacre, or Dread of night. Been trying both can't figure out which I like best.

[nevilshute]

Heya guys, first time posting here. Wanted to get an opinion on whats the better white hate currently, Massacre, or Dread of night. Been trying both can't figure out which I like best.

Unfortunately there is no clear cut answer. Each of the hatebear-answers have strengths and weaknesses. Keep trying them out and make your own experiences

[hartigan]

Heya guys, first time posting here. Wanted to get an opinion on whats the better white hate currently, Massacre, or Dread of night. Been trying both can't figure out which I like best.

I've been playing Dread of Night as there's three D&T players in my local meta and I've just had more success with it compared to Massacre.

Dread of Night also makes it very difficult for a hate-bear style deck to "rebuild" as the effect is permanent whereas Massacre is basically just a one-sided board-wipe.

Both have their upside but I've basically landed on Dread of Night being better for the meta right now.

Still, what nevilshute said stands, try them both and decide for yourself.

The better you know your deck and sideboard options the more optimally you will be able to pilot the match-ups you side in Dread of Night or Massacre!

[Jonathan Alexander]

Heya guys, first time posting here. Wanted to get an opinion on whats the better white hate currently, Massacre, or Dread of night. Been trying both can't figure out which I like best.

https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...the-storm-box/

"To sum up, Dread of Night is a sideboard card against Death and Taxes and, to a lesser extent, Maverick. Massacre is a sideboard card against Jeskai Delver and similar decks. Usually, slots on Massacre will be wasted since you already pack Abrupt Decay to bring against Delver."

There is also a more detailed explanation in the article.

[davelin]

Heya guys, first time posting here. Wanted to get an opinion on whats the better white hate currently, Massacre, or Dread of night. Been trying both can't figure out which I like best.

Im a fan of Massacre since in a good number of cases drawing and casting a single DoN wont get the job done while a Massacre right before going off will.

Rules question, I once had someone on Cockatrice say you can Flickerwisp a DoN and stack it such that both the DoN and Wisp are gone. True?

[Lemnear]

He's not 'messing' with the deck. As he said, he's new to it and this is his beginning list and wants advice. How hard is that to understand?

Instead of picking up a list that had some results and testing with it to get a feeling for the deck, he dropped a list with certain random and unexplained changes (aka messing with the deck) and let it to THE THREAD discussing it and finding reasons for/against the changes. Thats lazy at best and I'm not going to reward that.

Everyone else offered something positive. You offered zero help, rather, you were needlessly aggressive.

uhhhh ... I clearly hinted at the problems with Miracles and fetches, which is imo clearly helpful advice, no?

If you have nothing constructive to say, don't say it. Don't take the time to address issues if you don't actually address them in any meaningful way.

I did and I even invested more time into answering then he did into his post.

He's a bit harsh, but he's correct. There are 150+ pages of info on the deck, and if you can't be bothered to even look at the last few pages then too bad.

I can't point at 100+ pages of this thread to find answers, but the last 10 pages and simply googling for recent list should give more than enough info to pick up the deck. Nothing was done.

My point is, Lem added nothing constructed. He then had the audacity to complain about having to spend his time to address such 'issues' when he did quite the contrary.

See above. I did. Your posts solely rant about my posts and add nothing.

Anyway, this is quite pointless so I'll break it off here. It's just a really shitty way to welcome someone playing a new archetype.

then why YOU did not help him out?

[rw1347]

Thanks for the info guys, will keep testing different board configs for the etenal weekend/invitational.

[aegisd]

Rules question, I once had someone on Cockatrice say you can Flickerwisp a DoN and stack it such that both the DoN and Wisp are gone. True?

That doesn't sound right to me, since Flickerwisp's ability isn't divided into two parts like O-Ring is. DoN should come back as normal the beginning of the next end step, but flickerwisp is dead due to SBE once it triggers it's ETB effect.

[hartigan]

That doesn't sound right to me, since Flickerwisp's ability isn't divided into two parts like O-Ring is. DoN should come back as normal the beginning of the next end step, but flickerwisp is dead due to SBE once it triggers it's ETB effect.

Correct.

Flickerwisp's ETB trigger will go on the stack but Flickerwip will already be in the graveyard by the time the ability resolves.

The exiled card (Dread of Night) will return to the battlefield at the beginning of the end step even though Flickerwisp is no longer on the battlefield.

[Miscanthus]

Question for experienced practitioners of the Grinding Station ANT variant:

After having played the “classic” version of ANT for approximately one year, I recently switched over to Grinding Station. Having now played this version for about a months and a half, I can say I am very impressed by the results! During this time I have top 8’ed in two different local tournaments (one of which had 50+ people (July Legacy at channnelfireball center in San Jose)), and overall the deck has seemed noticeably smoother and more powerful/resilient than before.

So my general question to those more experienced with this variant than me is “other than the mirror/other storm combo, when exactly do we side in Ad Nauseam?”

I ask this because I have kept pretty careful notes as I have learned this variant, and noticed that in nearly every instance that I sided in Ad Nauseam when I thought it “correct” to do so I lost that game. Further, in many cases I have reason to believe I would have won had I not sided it in (and by extension, the extra Tendrils of Agony, Past in Flames, etc. out in order to accommodate it).

For example: In one recent match against Death and Taxes (game 2, after having lost game 1 to an early Thalia+Rishadan Port), I was expecting Rest in Peace and/or Grafdigger’s Cage to come in, and therefore sided Ad Nauseam in to play around this. Sure enough, my opponent dropped an early Grafdigger’s Cage, and a Gitaxian Probe on my next turn revealed Thalia, Canonist, Wasteland, and Plains in my opponent’s hand. Based on this information and the contents of my hand, I made the determination that I had to go for it that turn (which in hindsight may or may not have been correct). I had just enough mana to reach Ad Nauseam with Infernal Tutor (no land drop available), did so, and fizzled. Opponent subsequently dropped Canonist, etc, and that was that… Looking at this later, I realized that had I kept Empty the Warrens in instead of siding it out for the Ad Nausean package (and, by extension, not trying to play around my opponents anticipated graveyard hate), I would have been able to make enough goblins to quite likely win.

Further, I read through the tournament reports from Lille by Nevilshute and Sloshthedark, and noticed that neither of them seemed particularly pleased with Ad Nauseams performance/usefulness. Based on this (and noting how well they both did at the event), I am wondering what exactly we use this card for in this variant…

If it really is mostly just for the mirror/other combo decks, perhaps there is another card that could work better here (Telemin Performance maybe)?

Curious for your thoughts…


For reference my maindeck is identical to Nevilshutes Lille list save for -1 Grim Tutor, +1 Preordain.
My sideboard is currently:
4-Abrupt Decay
3-Xantid Swarm
3-Dread of Night
2-Chain of Vapor
1-Grim Tutor
1-Ad Nauseam
1-Duress

[Sloshthedark]

Question for experienced practitioners of the Grinding Station ANT variant:

After having played the “classic” version of ANT for approximately one year, I recently switched over to Grinding Station. Having now played this version for about a months and a half, I can say I am very impressed by the results! During this time I have top 8’ed in two different local tournaments (one of which had 50+ people (July Legacy at channnelfireball center in San Jose)), and overall the deck has seemed noticeably smoother and more powerful/resilient than before.

So my general question to those more experienced with this variant than me is “other than the mirror/other storm combo, when exactly do we side in Ad Nauseam?”

I ask this because I have kept pretty careful notes as I have learned this variant, and noticed that in nearly every instance that I sided in Ad Nauseam when I thought it “correct” to do so I lost that game. Further, in many cases I have reason to believe I would have won had I not sided it in (and by extension, the extra Tendrils of Agony, Past in Flames, etc. out in order to accommodate it).

For example: In one recent match against Death and Taxes (game 2, after having lost game 1 to an early Thalia+Rishadan Port), I was expecting Rest in Peace and/or Grafdigger’s Cage to come in, and therefore sided Ad Nauseam in to play around this. Sure enough, my opponent dropped an early Grafdigger’s Cage, and a Gitaxian Probe on my next turn revealed Thalia, Canonist, Wasteland, and Plains in my opponent’s hand. Based on this information and the contents of my hand, I made the determination that I had to go for it that turn (which in hindsight may or may not have been correct). I had just enough mana to reach Ad Nauseam with Infernal Tutor (no land drop available), did so, and fizzled. Opponent subsequently dropped Canonist, etc, and that was that… Looking at this later, I realized that had I kept Empty the Warrens in instead of siding it out for the Ad Nausean package (and, by extension, not trying to play around my opponents anticipated graveyard hate), I would have been able to make enough goblins to quite likely win.

Further, I read through the tournament reports from Lille by Nevilshute and Sloshthedark, and noticed that neither of them seemed particularly pleased with Ad Nauseams performance/usefulness. Based on this (and noting how well they both did at the event), I am wondering what exactly we use this card for in this variant…

If it really is mostly just for the mirror/other combo decks, perhaps there is another card that could work better here (Telemin Performance maybe)?

Curious for your thoughts…


For reference my maindeck is identical to Nevilshutes Lille list save for -1 Grim Tutor, +1 Preordain.
My sideboard is currently:
4-Abrupt Decay
3-Xantid Swarm
3-Dread of Night
2-Chain of Vapor
1-Grim Tutor
1-Ad Nauseam
1-Duress

if you have EtW it does not make sense to SB Ad Nauseam here for me, I don't buy the more speed argument of AdN, for there is none generaly imo, it's additional mode of combo you add// GT in the SB is a very awkward choice...

to answer the question - I use it for Elves, Mirror, Dredge, Shardless w Hymn and tier 2 discard decks... btw. will probably not run it again in my next large tournament... depending on the metagame AdN is often the necessary evil

[phazonmutant]

The CardKingdom stream featured me playing Grinding Station this week http://www.twitch.tv/cardkingdom/v/11459796?t=03%3A05

I made a huge punt game 1. I could have potentially recovered by cracking LED in response to the second Tutor for Red and cracking LED for Blue before playing Probe, but did neither of those things and lost horribly. Games 2 and 3 were better though.