[Deck] Death and Taxes

[iatee]

I like the idea of sharpshooter and it might be right for the sideboard...but it still seems bad-to-god awful in so many games.

[Nihils]

I really love the creature base right now honestly. I know one should never get too caught up in results based thinking, especially when we're in relatively un-chartered waters, but so far it has just been crushing for me.

Sharpshooter combo's really well with creature's dying (duh), but it is just bananas, especially with Mother of Runes. Sword of fire and Ice can shoot down one deathrite, and then with the untap trigger on the stack, you can shoot another deathrite, let the trigger resolve, and then shoot it again. It just makes combat math super unfavourable for your opponent, and it can even ping Planeswalkers when the board-state gets clogged up. I'm not even being hyperbolic when I say that Goblin Sharpshooter is better in R/W Taxes than it is in Goblins.

One thing I do miss are the extra fliers from mono-white. I was never particularly fond of Serra Avenger because she's just a somewhat slow vanilla beater, but not having it makes me realise why she's in mono-white in the first place.

As for Magus, I'm a huge fan of the card, but it's no longer the absolute crusher it was a few months ago when BUG decks were all the rage. Now it's just a Silver Bullet to tutor for with an additional copy in the sideboard for those matchups where it is just insane. Overall I've been very pleased with the 3rd copy of Recruiter, especially with the various silver bulllets I have in my maindeck and sideboard. It's such a pity Recruiter can't get Flickerwisp

For reference: my main is basically the list you posted but -1 Recruiter (only own two) -1 Sharpshooter (he's in the SB) +1 Vryn Wingmare (more fliers; more combo hate) +1 Magus of the Moon (none in the side).

I haven't taken a serious look at it yet, but I've been considering trading out 2-3 Revokers (and/or maybe move 1 Magus of the Moon to the SB) for 2-3 Avengers. Avenger has always been solid for me, and I do love the additional fliers. Revoker's utility seems to be at a low at the moment (I'm expecting a lot of Omni so I'd rather have the extra clock). I've also been concerned about the number of x/1s that this list plays. If I do the switch, I'd fit in another Pithing Needle in the board.

[Barook]

For reference: my main is basically the list you posted but -1 Recruiter (only own two) -1 Sharpshooter (he's in the SB) +1 Vryn Wingmare (more fliers; more combo hate) +1 Magus of the Moon (none in the side).

I haven't taken a serious look at it yet, but I've been considering trading out 2-3 Revokers (and/or maybe move 1 Magus of the Moon to the SB) for 2-3 Avengers. Avenger has always been solid for me, and I do love the additional fliers. Revoker's utility seems to be at a low at the moment (I'm expecting a lot of Omni so I'd rather have the extra clock). I've also been concerned about the number of x/1s that this list plays. If I do the switch, I'd fit in another Pithing Needle in the board.

I was just about to discuss Revokers. There seems to be a new trend to completely cut Revokers from the MD due to the current meta. While I'm not a fan of that, how about cutting it down to 1 copy MD? With 3 Recruiters, we should still have a high enough density in the MD, plus packing probably more in the SB. I was also about to suggest Wingmare since it seems to be the real deal, plus it's a tutorable flyer.

I'm thinking about a creature base like this:

4 Mom
4 Thalia
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
3 Imperial Recruiter
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mirran Crusader
1 flex-spot (Mangara, Sharpshooter, Leonin Relic-Warder, Fiend Hunter, Canonist etc.)

[iatee]

If you cut the revokers entirely, an early DRS can often blank your magus auto-win. Guess that's less of an issue if you're only playing one magus.

Wingmare definitely seems worth playing and perhaps in multiples. I think I'm going up to 2 with my list. With recruiters you can tutor up a stack of them + thalia.

[Nihils]

I was just about to discuss Revokers. There seems to be a new trend to completely cut Revokers from the MD due to the current meta. While I'm not a fan of that, how about cutting it down to 1 copy MD? With 3 Recruiters, we should still have a high enough density in the MD, plus packing probably more in the SB. I was also about to suggest Wingmare since it seems to be the real deal, plus it's a tutorable flyer.

I'm thinking about a creature base like this:

4 Mom
4 Thalia
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
3 Imperial Recruiter
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mirran Crusader
1 flex-spot (Mangara, Sharpshooter, Leonin Relic-Warder, Fiend Hunter, Canonist etc.)

Looks good to me. Like I had said, I am missing the 3rd Recruiter so I would personally run that same creature base (with Mangara in the flex) with -1 Recruiter +1 Avenger/Magus/Wingmare (probably Avenger with the extra Magus in the side).

I'll try out the list at the Super IQ in Charlotte this weekend. I haven't had the opportunity to play Legacy in a couple of months (played the green splash) so I'm probably rusty enough that the trip will be more fun than competitive. :P

[redtwister]

@Barbed Blightning
I'm pretty close to your build. I went with 1 [card]Spirit of the Labyrinth[/card] and +1 [card]Vryn Wingmare[/card] over the 2 [card]Mangara of Corondor[/card] because in my locals that feels like a better option. I'm also feeling Vryn needs to be a 3-4 of to get the value.

I've moved away from Wg because I think the format is more punishing to multi-color manabases right now, especially with Lands so big in the format and the Delver decks going back to 4 [card]Wasteland[/card]. If I had the $$, I would do more than test Imperial Taxes, and if we end back up in an Elf format, I'll figure out how to pony up the cash for [card]Imperial Tutor[/card].

In the meantime, my 75 is this (yes, I was tweaking from the near-time post on MTG.)

[deck]4x Flickerwisp
4x Mother of Runes
4x Serra Avenger
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Vryn Wingmare
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Spirit of the Labyrinth

4x AEther Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte

1x Cavern of Souls
1x Mishra's Factory
4x Karakas
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
9x Snow-Covered Plains

Sideboard
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
2 Cataclysm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Path to Exile
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Containment Priest[/deck]

[groombug]

Long-time lurker here...

Played this to 6-1, 6th place at Eternal Weekend Legacy Champ Trials:

16x The Usual Suspects (SFM, MoR, Thalia, Flickerwisp)
3x Wingmare
3x Serra Avenger
2x Revoker
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Mirran Crusader

4x Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x SoFaI
1x Jitte

10x Plains
8x WastePorts
3x Karakas
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Mishra's Factory

Sideboard
3x RiP
3x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Cataclysm
2x Pithing Needle
1x Path to Exile
1x Absolute Law
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Council's Judgment
1x SoLaS


Played:
UR Delver (2-1)
Omni-Tell (0-2)
Shardless BUG (1-0-1)
Dredge (2-0)
Lands (1-0-1)
Omni-Tell (2-1)
RUG Delver (2-1)
Top 8: Omni-Tell from R2 (1-2)


Thinking of the following mods for tomorrow's main event:

-2 Aven Mindcensor
+2 Spirit of the Labyrinth

-1 Plains
+1 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard's a bit of a mess, but I never got to drop Cataclysm or any of the onesies. Any suggestions?

[jdc5011]

But would I run four [Vyrn Wingmare]? No. The benefits don't outweigh the loss, especially if you are digging into the Avenger count (which should be four).

Has this been a recent shift back to a faster, less taxing version of MW?

I run this currently:

Core (4x: SFM, Thalia, Mom, Flickerwisp)
3x Avenger
4x Revoker
1x Brimaz
2x Crusader

4x S2P
4x Vial
1x Batterskull
1x Jitte
1x SoFaI

4x Port
4x Wasteland
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Cavern
3x Karakas
10x Plains

Side:
1x Canonist
1x RiP
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Pithing Needle
2x Cataclysm
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege (lots of BUG locally)
1x Manriki
1x Surgical
2x Council's Judgment
1x Null Rod
1x O-Ring
1x G-Cage


2 Crusader MD and 2 WLL on the SB is a local meta call as I see A LOT of BUG. I want to fit in the Wingmare and I've seen a lot of discussion on numbers. I'm thinking that I will try out the following next week:

+4 wingmare, -1 Avenger, -2 Revoker, -1 Crussader (I'm not sold on removing Brimaz from the 75 as he is a total house and seeing my op's face when he sticks off vial is priceless).

[MrGlantz]

Went 5-3 with the Brainstorm Show's List at eternal weekend before dropping to get food and drink since all my friends were out far earlier than I was.

List was:
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Serra Avenger
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Flickerwisp
3 Vryn Wingmare
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos

4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

3 Karakas
4 Wastland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Horizon Canopy
8 Plains

SB
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
3 Holy Light
2 Armageddon
2 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant

I was pleased with it. I just didn't like most of the matchups that I was forced to play all day, which was a lot of burn and elves.. Vryn Wingmare is strong I was happier with it than I have been with lots of three drops I've tried in the past.

I also was able to trade a bunch of enemy fetches I never use in order to snag 2 Imperial Recruiters so I'm likely going to try testing the red splash soon. I'm most excited and optimistic about that splash over any other because Elves! is a massive problem and I'm honestly sick of being destroyed by that deck.

[Stevestamopz]

R/W with a small green splash made top 32 at Champs!

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
3 Imperial Recruiter
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Vryn Wingmare
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Phyrexian Revoker

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Æther Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
2 Karakas
2 Plateau
2 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Savannah

Sideboard (15)
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Mirran Crusader
3 Rest in Peace
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sudden Demise

3 Cavern's main seems a bit risky but the payoffs must be immense. I'll definitely be trying 2, probably cutting a fetch or the 3rd karakas.

[nevilshute]

Playing the MonoW-taxes deck what is your impression on the matchup vs Mentor-Miracles? I always felt comfortable playing against pre-mentor miracles but have not tried vs Mentor. In the abstract it seems worse for us, as we need to keep on plowshares etc. Does it massively tilt the matchup in their favor? Is it still roughly the same as before? Any specific tech to use to combat it?

[iatee]

So I finished 25th of 744, 8-2-1. Stevestamopz posted my list. I'm pretty convinced that the R/W version is miles ahead of the other versions in consistency and power at the moment. This was the first time I had a 3rd recruiter to play with and having a 3/2 split in that direction absolutely won me some games.

Here's my super long writeup:

Overall:

Lands 2-0, Jund Depths 0-2, Miracles 1-1-1, Reanimator 2-0, Miracles 2-0, Esper control, 2-0, 4c Delver 2-1, Miracles 2-1, Miracles 1-2, D+T 2-1, 4c Stoneblade 2-0

Round 1 Lands (2-0)

- G1 I start with Vial into Mother of Runes x 3. He gets a Tabernacle out, I absentmindedly forget the trigger because I also was thinking about whether I wanted Vial on 2 or 3 (w/ no 3 drops in hand but more relevant 3 drop draws). Worst mistake of the day and shoulda cost me the match but hey. Draw into Magus, cast Ethersworn Canonist as Punishing Fire bait and activate Vial at 3. He Punishing Fires Canonist in response and Magus comes in. If I had 2 active Mother of Runes into Magus I would have been essentially 100% to win at that point, instead he still had outs, but didn't find them. I had sandbagged my fetches/duals so that he wouldn't be expecting Magus - even gave up my 3rd MoR to Tabernacle instead of playing a 3rd land - and it worked. These kind of wins probably have an expiration date though.

SB in the Rest in Peaces, Ratchet Bomb, 3rd Magus, sb'd out some copies of STP and some mix of Canonist (not really relevant), Revoker (only hitting Mox isn't that great), Wingmare (slow).

- G2 See my Rest in Peace(s), Ratchet Bomb his Pithing Needle / Exploration, hook up SoFi to Magus and he scoops.

R2 Jund Depths (0-2)

- G1 was a grindfest, it took me a few turns to figure out what he was playing and I could have saved my t1 Wasteland-your-Bayou for his much-later Grove in retrospect and been more aggressive. Long grindy game, eventually lose to Punishing Fire combo and Liliana. Never drew a red creature.
SB in Rest in Peaces, Magus, Revoker, Ratchet Bomb, Crusader, SB out Wingmares, Canonist, forget what else.

- G2 Kept Stoneforge, RIP, wasteland, Port, Port, fetch, Plains. Which was land heavy, but contains two very good cards in the matchup so I kept. He then t1 Inquisitions me, takes a long time to decide which one to take (he had a graveyard dependent hand), took Stoneforge hoping I wouldn't draw another creature, which more or less happened. Died to a Young Pyromancer and tokens before I drew into anything relevant.

R3 Miracles (1-1-1)

G1 was the longest game I played all day, taking something like 45 minutes and was my favorite win of the day. I won past 4 Terminus 4+ Swords to Plowshares (I believe he snapped 2 back too). 3 recruiters in the deck was 100% the only reason I won that game, as I just kept vial on 3 and coming at him w/ a new one every turn, hooking it up w/ SoFi and making him answer it immediately. He had an active Jace, but literally ran out of answers and didn't find his one Entreat, his only other out.
He was playing Ruination main, which extended the game for him as I would have had more opportunity to Port him but I was ahead on board when it happened and had active Aether Vials, so it wasn't that punishing.

SB'd out Batterskull, Magus and something else for Revoker, Teeg, Ratchet Bomb

G2 I kept a Thalia, Teeg, some other stuff hand. He mulled to 6. I turn 2 Thalia, he turn 3 Karakases it. Thalia/Teeg hand basically wrecked by him having his Karakas in his opening hand. He plays Jace, Mentor, creates a billion tokens and kills me when we're on turns. He wouldn't have had time to win if I had drawn a STP or a Wasteland for the Karakas.
Asks me if I'll concede the match and the answer was obviously 'lol'. (He asked someone I knew the same thing later after drawing a miracles mirror).
Anyway, now I was doomed to the miracles bracket, which wasn't the worst as far as match-ups were concerned, but was the worst because I had 8 more rounds.

R4 Reanimator (2-0)

G1 Wasted his only land, drew Karakas anyway even if he had managed to get something out.
SB'd in the RIPs, out some slow stuff

G2 He reanimated Gris, I had Karakas in hand again (magic is game of skill), he drew 7 but didn't have much life to work with after that and I finished him with an attacking Mother of Runes.

R5 Miracles (2-0)

G1 Double Vial plus multiple Ports and a steady supply of creatures, wasn't close

G2 Had Teeg through Cavern (my only 'advisor'-cavern of the day) + Karakas, and other creatures, his hand was filled w/ miracles. He wouldn't have been able to miracle-cast them anyway because I was porting him off white and he didn't have a top or any fetches left.

R6 Esper control (2-0)

G1 Got a Jitte out and loaded it up with counters. Killed every Lingering Souls token he made. His only other win cons were his on board Jace+Lili and was running low on answers. One turn late in the game I cast Recruiter into Recruiter into Revoker for Lili. He cast DTT 3-4 times and was left with maybe 20 cards in his library when the game was over, but it never felt close thanks to the early Jitte.

SB took out STPs, Canonist, put in a RIP, Teegs, Revoker

G2 was much shorter, Vial, Recruiter+Flickerwisp value were impossible for him to keep up with.

R7 4C Delver (2-1)

G1 He had a slow opening with Deathrites as his only real pressure and lots of cantripping, I had equipment and he couldn't keep up.

SB brought in Magus, Ratchet Bomb but didn't bring in any RIPs as it seemed possible he was grixis w/ a trop for DRS.

G2 He found his Darkblast, which did a lot of work, and had a Goyf I couldn't answer. Brought in a few RIPs.

G3 Kept a risky but high-payoff one land hand w/ Wasteland, Vial, Mom, Revoker, Recruiter and I forgot what else, maybe STP and another creature. He didn't have a Force for the Vial (I figured he probably took most out) or way to destroy it, I drew a Karakas t2 anyway. Vialed Mom into Revoker for DRS into Recruiter for Magus and he scooped.

R8 Miracles (2-1)

G1 He was playing Mentors main and tapped out for one t3. I had enough mana to cast my Jitte in hand and needed to draw a 4th land t4 to equip it, attack with something and kill the Mentor. Didn't draw the land (or STP) and he won very quickly w/ double Top + Mentor
SB'd in the normal stuff plus brought in Sudden Demise too cause it seemed like his build was pretty mentor-heavy/

G2 The normal 'Miracles can't beat Thalia+Karakas' game

G3 Another Imperial Recruiter chain w/ Sword of Fire and Ice game.

R9 Miracles (1-2)

G1 Opponent mulled, kept one land, I had Wasteland

G2 I mulled and was short on land for a long time, he hit his Izzet Staticaster before I could do much

Sb'd out more x/1s than usual and brought in more Ethersworn Canonists

G3 I was fairly ahead and he was at 5 life with 3 lands, 2 cards and a top. Hit a Terminus iirc, DTT'd for his Izzet Staticaster and eventually played a second one too.

R10 Mono-W D+T (2-1)

G1 I start out with a Stoneforge for Jitte, he plays a t3 Brimaz, which was gonna be hard to answer even w/ Jitte, but I drew Karakas and his aggressive Brimaz/Thalia keep became very slow. I eventually get in with Flickerwisps.
SB in Relic-Warders, Revoker, Ratchet Bomb, Sudden Demise

G2 Equipment/Revoker battle, eventually he gets all 3 of his pieces on board before I draw anything relevant

G3 Fast game as we were short on time, I hit a lot of my SB cards, recruiting for Relic-Warder on his vial. STP'd his mom to tap it then Sudden Demised his board, and became inevitable w/ an active Jitte.

R11 4C Stoneblade (2-0)

R1 Vial game, Thalia into Wingmare, which actually wasn't that amazing because he was creature heavy, but had Revoker for his Stoneforge'd Jitte. I drew fairly well and had the right creatures vs him. He was fetching for basics aggressively to play around magus, which also hurt his mana.

Brought in another Magus, Revoker, Relic-Warders, took out Wingmares, Canonist, forgot what else.

R2 He Stoneforge'd for Jitte again, I double recruitered for Relic-Warder, Revoker both on Jitte. Had Karakas for his Clique, which was his only real pressure.


Overall

- 11 straight rounds of magic is seriously exhausting, esp if 4 of them are miracles grind-fests. I had a headache afterwards.

- 3 Recruiters is really, really good against miracles and just in general. This card is Demonic Tutor in this build, an instant speed Demonic Tutor if you have a vial. While 3/2 Recruiter/Magus means you're marginally less likely to get a out-of-nowhere Magus win g1, Magus also has its bad matchups like miracles and omni, whereas Recruiter is rarely bad in a situation where Magus would have been good. And at worst you get a Magus one turn later.
The difference between playing off the top vs cantrip decks vs playing w/ Demonic Tutor vs cantrip decks is huge. The D+T game shifts from 'you try to punish them from cantripping so much for their answers' to 'you just get your own answers, and you don't have to rely on getting lucky w/ a Ponder shuffle.' If (when) DTT were (is) banned, this build would be even more insane because DTT is the only thing that allows fair+control decks to keep up or get ahead the in the attrition game.

- Don't cut your maindeck Revokers

- Being in the x-x-1 bracket definitely affected my matchups, e.g. not playing a single omni or storm deck. My main and sb were built to deal with those decks but omni is still 50-50 at best, even w/ a million specifically targeted hate bears and a recruitable Canonist main. I also didn't get many easy greedy-manabase-Delver matches.

- The green splash just isn't worth it, at least not for Teeg and vs miracles, because good miracles players have all realized that Mentor is the best win-con. Teeg might have even cost me one game vs the miracles player w/ Karakas, as it was a dead card. Dealing with Mentor is still the real issue post-sb and it's the only way miracles beats you. Always keeping in 4 STP seems like it should be a rule.
I might try a Lightning Bolt or two in the sb, which have the upside of surprise hitting Jace or finishing them off and also are nice vs Delver/DRS decks. I thought 2 Teegs and having a good maindeck vs miracles meant I could drop Cataclysm from the sb, but I ended up missing them, and I'm definitely keeping at least one.

- As much as the Teeg splash isn't worth it, I think 3c is totally viable in this meta and am gonna keep experimenting with other colors. Playing 3 recruiters increases the incentive for playing weird non-white tutor targets.

- The downside of 3 Caverns has very very infrequently come up whereas the upside has been huge. I think any R/W player should never play fewer than 2.The big decks that can punish your greedy manabase (RUG Delver, Lands, Painter) are already good matchups and only Lands seems in vogue right now. Match one vs Lands the two players to the right of me were also on Lands. And the R/W D+T is miles ahead of the G/W and W versions in the Lands matchup.

- I won an insane number of games off having Karakas when I needed it, and it might be worth trying to put in a 3rd again. Karakas is an unfair magic card and I wish there were a way to tutor for it that was more reliable than Weathered Wayfarer. Tutoring for KotR seems super slow too.

- Wingmare is slow and an x/1 and I sided it out constantly. But I played against only one pure combo deck so I am probably biased. I might keep one as a Recruiter target when I specifically want to oppress a blue deck, but I definitely don't want two. The mono-white versions are playing a different game than the R/W versions and 2/3/4 might even be right, but you're really loading up in one direction when you do that, and you're gonna lose every game where Thalia/Wingmare aren't actually relevant. Also you insta-lose to Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemenetal etc, whereas I easily beat the Dread of Night I saw the next day. Izzet Staticaster is also getting to be a more popular answer.

- I think this deck is super well-placed vs the meta but still has rough match-ups. All forms of jund, early TNNs and Blighted Agent are still hard to deal with w/ this build. I don't think any amount of SB hate is gonna make Omni much better than a 50-50 matchup. Miracles is probably 55-45 in our direction but would be 75-25 w/ this naya list if only mentor didn't exist.

- This deck is also worse than the mono-w version vs burn or almost-burn u/r delver due to fewer beaters and maindeck Grey Ogre of the Moon. Also Price of Progress is a beating w/ this manabase. As far as the mirror goes, Magus of the Moon is once again a Grey Ogre or worse g1 and they are more aggressive but 3 Recruiters means you're playing 7 Stoneforge plus more copies of your anti-equipment hate, so I actually think the matchup is considerably in the R/W's favor in 3 games (so especially post sb) - but a blind hard control keep (Thalia, Moon etc.) against an aggressive mono-w build will probably lose g1.

[Finn]

Iatee, I think everyone would agree that three color DnT is fantastically powerful. It is a question of consistency versus that raw power. You had your two Karakas when you needed , apparently did not drop a lot of games to mana issues, and you did not end up with a Plow and no white due to overstocking Caverns. You simply can't expect those three things to happen on the same day very often.

[iatee]

So I have 12 white sources, which according to this math:
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...t-your-spells/

is a 90% chance by t3. I've played 100+ games with this mana build and can't recall a single game I've lost because I didn't have a white source for swords. T1 swords is rarely a do-or-die and often even wrong.

There have been one or two games over this period where I've had an uncastable sudden demise. It's true that this build opens itself up to mana-screw and is super greedy, but the white version opens itself up to losing to turn one top turn two counterbalance or your Thalia being dazed. Nothing is free, it's just a question of where you want to park your risk.

[iatee]

And I did admit that I got very lucky with Karakas over the day, but Karakas also causes its own mana-issues and with no Mangara or Brimaz the upside of a 3rd doesn't seem worth the downside of double Karakas-lotus-petal hands. Playing 3 has its own risks and I've lost games to it too as I'm sure everyone here has.

[Barook]

@iatee: Thanks for the report.

What changes would you make to your list? You didn't sound too happy about Teegs or more than one copy of Wingmare. What would you put into said slots?

As for Karakas tutors, technically, there's Expedition Map, but that seems not really like it's worth it.

[Finn]

@Karakas tutoring:

Crop Rotation on Flagstones of Trokair is about as good as it gets, fellas.

...is a 90% chance by t3. I've played 100+ games with this mana build and can't recall a single game I've lost because I didn't have a white source for swords. T1 swords is rarely a do-or-die and often even wrong.

There have been one or two games over this period where I've had an uncastable sudden demise. It's true that this build opens itself up to mana-screw and is super greedy, but the white version opens itself up to losing to turn one top turn two counterbalance or your Thalia being dazed. Nothing is free, it's just a question of where you want to park your risk.

Yes. That is what I said. Just don't forget that the calculations do not take into account Rishadan Port and Wasteland. You faced DnT and Lands, so I am honestly astonished that this was not an issue for you. Keep up the fun.

[iamajellydonut]

@Karakas tutoring:

Crop Rotation on Flagstones of Trokair is about as good as it gets, fellas.

Holy fucking shit.

Every fiber of my being wants to build this right now.

[iatee]

@Karakas tutoring:

Crop Rotation on Flagstones of Trokair is about as good as it gets, fellas.

Yes. That is what I said. Just don't forget that the calculations do not take into account Rishadan Port and Wasteland. You faced DnT and Lands, so I am honestly astonished that this was not an issue for you. Keep up the fun.

I mean Port isn't relevant if we're talking about white sources for STP as I can STP in response. In a 1000 game set I'm sure mono-w D+T and Lands will port me to death once in a while when I kept a greedy hand with no vial, but they're still so far behind from not playing main deck Demonic Tutor and Blood Moon that it's worth giving up some % in that direction and to improve your match-ups against the counterspell decks, of which there are vastly more. Mana consistency is only one element of consistency in this game, this deck gives up some of that and but gains massively in other directions. Being a vial deck also helps here.

[iatee]

@iatee: Thanks for the report.

What changes would you make to your list? You didn't sound too happy about Teegs or more than one copy of Wingmare. What would you put into said slots?

As for Karakas tutors, technically, there's Expedition Map, but that seems not really like it's worth it.

KotR also works, and is Recruiter-tutorable and a beater...and a human for my pet card Cavern, but I'm guessing it's probably terrible.

I would probably just put in Crusader/Revoker for Wingmares, cut the Savannah for a plains, put two Cataclysm and a Pithing Needle and put some other tutorable creature in the last sb spot. Maybe another Mirran Crusader.