[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Lemnear]

Funny enough, I had close to that hand the 3 times I missed it. Maybe it is just variance.

I Had Mire, therapy, Rite, Rite, LED, Wish, Probe x2 and I missed it for the tX BW, tx+1 2Black producing lands.

its not surprising tbh as we already cornered this case as one of the few which make Badlands look decent, but depending on Draw/Play/OpponentsDeck and the shown/drawn card(s) to your first Probe, there is no guarentee that you even need the Badlands as every Mox/Petal/Land drawn or looking into a FoW-less hand, basically removes any need for Badlands immediately.

edit:
in extreme cases, you may even want to 'fetchland, go" for a turn, just to hope that your next drawstep + 2 Probes wield your second IMS to cast the Therapy + Wish into 14+ Goblins.

how did you play that hand?

[Pilhas]

its not surprising tbh as we already cornered this case as one of the few which make Badlands look decent, but depending on Draw/Play/OpponentsDeck and the shown/drawn card(s) to your first Probe, there is no guarentee that you even need the Badlands as every Mox/Petal/Land drawn or looking into a FoW-less hand, basically removes any need for Badlands immediately.

edit:
in extreme cases, you may even want to 'fetchland, go" for a turn, just to hope that your next drawstep + 2 Probes wield your second IMS to cast the Therapy + Wish into 14+ Goblins.

how did you play that hand?

I probed and found a Dark ritual. t2 peeled a petal from the top. I think I tried to go for a Ritual->Therapy->Petal->2xRite->LED>BW->Petition->AdN with 2 mana floating(RB) to try and win without tokens(just because I need constraints). IIRC I flipped ~6 can trips + empty + 2 tutor + discard, stopped at 4 life without fleeping a mana source.
Should I went for another line?
Really not sure if I should Probe on t1, if I do, it might be profitable to therapy on t1 of a swamp/sea, depending on the hand that I see .

[Bryant Cook]

The only reason I could see to justify Badlands is a basic Island, otherwise it's not needed.

[Pilhas]

The only reason I could see to justify Badlands is a basic Island, otherwise it's not needed.

Do you mean shaving a volc for a island and up the land count with the badlands? I only see that change with the shave of a mox and I am a fan of the moxen.

[Bryant Cook]

Do you mean shaving a volc for a island and up the land count with the badlands? I only see that change with the shave of a mox and I am a fan of the moxen.

I mean that Badlands is only acceptable when playing a basic Island, I'm not proving advise on running a suboptimal configuration. I wouldn't change the mana base at all personally.

[Lemnear]

I probed and found a Dark ritual. t2 peeled a petal from the top. I think I tried to go for a Ritual->Therapy->Petal->2xRite->LED>BW->Petition->AdN with 2 mana floating(RB) to try and win without tokens(just because I need constraints). IIRC I flipped ~6 can trips + empty + 2 tutor + discard, stopped at 4 life without fleeping a mana source.
Should I went for another line?
Really not sure if I should Probe on t1, if I do, it might be profitable to therapy on t1 of a swamp/sea, depending on the hand that I see .

Probe (1), Dark Ritual (2) for [BBB], Petal for [BBBR] (3), RoF (4) [BBBRR], RoF (5) [BBBRRRR], LED (6), Wish (7) break LED for [BBBBBBRR] left, Petition for Wish (8), Wish for ToA [BBBR] (9), ToA (10) was a possible playline. Just to mention it.

Even BW->DP->mainboard EtW->flashback Therapy should have won, no? You took the risky Path with a LED, 2 Rites, a Ritual and a Petal already burned which matters for the odds.

Essentially you found the second IMS as discussed and ergo the Badlands was pointless.

TL:DR
The deck was able to kill turn 2 if your opponent has no defense and you can drop 14+ Goblins if he has (therapy). You can even beat FoW + sweeper! Ask for more?

[d0nkey]

I run a badlands. I like it sometimes; other times, I don't like it.

But I only run it because I haven't picked up a second volcanic island yet. It IS sub-optimal, but it really isn't that big of a deal. BUT, if I owned to volcanic islands, I would cut it.

[Pilhas]

Probe (1), Dark Ritual (2) for [BBB], Petal for [BBBR] (3), RoF (4) [BBBRR], RoF (5) [BBBRRRR], LED (6), Wish (7) break LED for [BBBBBBRR] left, Petition for Wish (8), Wish for ToA [BBBR] (9), ToA (10) was a possible playline. Just to mention it.

Even BW->DP->mainboard EtW->flashback Therapy should have won, no? You took the risky Path with a LED, 2 Rites, a Ritual and a Petal already burned which matters for the odds.

Essentially you found the second IMS as discussed and ergo the Badlands was pointless.

TL:DR
The deck was able to kill turn 2 if your opponent has no defense and you can drop 14+ Goblins if he has (therapy). You can even beat FoW + sweeper! Ask for more?

The first line was not possible since I burned Probe in t1. My error starts there I think. I have the bad habbit of burning my probes and discard very early.
I always seem to forget that I can go for EtW and then flashback. I look to therapy as an Ant player :X

[Lemnear]

The first line was not possible since I burned Probe in t1. My error starts there I think. I have the bad habbit of burning my probes and discard very early.
I always seem to forget that I can go for EtW and then flashback. I look to therapy as an Ant player :X

It did, as the basic requirement for this hand to do anything mentionable is finding a second IMS. As lands don't help T1 if you draw them via Probes (leaving Petals and Moxen as only outs for a turn 1 combo) and fetching a Swamp/U.sea (even more reducing the number of Lands you can draw into) for some Probe + Therapy shenanigans doesn't cover your opponent drawing/cantrip into counter, going for the conservative "Fetchland, go" would have fared better and in this case even won the game turn 2.

I really hate it to see people burning Probe early in Storm as they make natural storm kills so damn easy to execute. Unless you play against Hatebears/Counterbalance/combo: Sit on Probes and discard as long as reasonable

[Bryant Cook]

I aggressively use my Probes, I am of a different play style than Peter.

I'd rather make proper decisions based on what my opponent is playing than potentially sit back and get burned. Not to mention that Probe could occasionally draw into the missing piece.

[LDX]

I aggressively use my Probes, I am of a different play style than Peter.

I'd rather make proper decisions based on what my opponent is playing than potentially sit back and get burned. Not to mention that Probe could occasionally draw into the missing piece.

But in that specific case, would you have played the Cabal Therapy?

I see a lot of ''early discard to save mana on combo turn'' vs ''grinding a bit more but make it safer discard''.

If you have a vacuum answer, I'll take it, but if not let's just talk according to the current discussion.

[Lemnear]

But in that specific case, would you have played the Cabal Therapy?

I see a lot of ''early discard to save mana on combo turn'' vs ''grinding a bit more but make it safer discard''.

If you have a vacuum answer, I'll take it, but if not let's just talk according to the current discussion.

mind that he held two Probes in his hand so he the option to Probe once and still kill his opponent turn two with the playline I mentioned earlier. For me it boils down to saving the Probes and holding on the fetch (aka not casting Therapy), mainly because his business spell is Wish and he likely goes for EtW here (while also having one more possible land to draw into for his drawstep and Probes). Its a bit different if the business spell was Infernal as you would care a lot less for stormcount

[Bryant Cook]

But in that specific case, would you have played the Cabal Therapy?

I see a lot of ''early discard to save mana on combo turn'' vs ''grinding a bit more but make it safer discard''.

If you have a vacuum answer, I'll take it, but if not let's just talk according to the current discussion.

I'd say that I "just fire off" my Probes 75-80% of the time. However, there are circumstances where that's not appropriate. My comment was directed at Peter's telling people that they should hold them more often, which is something I'm not sure if I agree with.

[LDX]

mind that he held two Probes in his hand so he the option to Probe once and still kill his opponent turn two with the playline I mentioned earlier. For me it boils down to saving the Probes and holding on the fetch (aka not casting Therapy), mainly because his business spell is Wish and he likely goes for EtW here (while also having one more possible land to draw into for his drawstep and Probes). Its a bit different if the business spell was Infernal as you would care a lot less for stormcount

Yeah, I became closer to you in that kind of thought, which is why I asked Bryant, as we know he has a different playstyle than yours.

I guess I'll make my own opinion on the styles, but so far it's been really heart breaking. Every time I see Bryant play on camera, all his moves seem natural and I'm like, whoo, I could have done that on my own, and what I couldn't have done / his more complex plays just seem to be ''my next levels'', if I may, like to see the features you should unlock with enough experience, literally (and as a metaphor too, I would guess). Mind you, I'm nowhere close to that level yet.

But your words are always shining bright of intelligence, and more importantly, they're limpid and clear: every single small thing you care to explain totally make sense right away. How you explain what motivates your thought process is candy for the mind, and I haven't seen so much clarity since some college professors I had. I tend to be let my brain lead me on a daily basis, why is which I'm leaning toward you.

Not that what Bryant does isn't motivated by thoughts or isn't rational, but that that process is still unknown to me. It's so natural and I couldn't know how to explain it, which is why I ask the questions.

I'd say that I "just fire off" my Probes 75-80% of the time. However, there are circumstances where that's not appropriate. My comment was directed at Peter's telling people that they should hold them more often, which is something I'm not sure if I agree with.

Yes, that I got it, but what about the discard? Most of the times, Probes won't take mana away. I wonder where you situate yourself in the ''speed at all cost/fear of top deck'' spectrum.

[Bryant Cook]

Not that what Bryant does isn't motivated by thoughts or isn't rational, but that that process is still unknown to me. It's so natural and I couldn't know how to explain it, which is why I ask the questions.
Yes, that I got it, but what about the discard? Most of the times, Probes won't take mana away. I wonder where you situate yourself in the ''speed at all cost/fear of top deck'' spectrum.

Peter and I also have very different roles when it comes to posting publicly. I rarely will help out the new/novice user, I'm much more interested in the decks next steps and configurations on the proper numbers.

I play discard differently based on the match-up, sometimes it's best to jam it to hit their Top on turn one. Sometimes you hold it to make their Brainstorms awkward.

[Bryant Cook]

Hand Generator is live: http://www.theepicstorm.com/#handgenerator

[d0nkey]

Hand Generator is live: http://www.theepicstorm.com/#handgenerator

This might be the best thing created for storm since infernal tutor

[LDX]

Hand Generator is live: http://www.theepicstorm.com/#handgenerator

This. Is. Awesome.

What's the purpose of it? Will you review our choices? Is it as a database to check the ''regular TES player'' against your own choices?

[Bryant Cook]

This. Is. Awesome.

What's the purpose of it? Will you review our choices? Is it as a database to check the ''regular TES player'' against your own choices?

The purpose is to get an idea of what opening hands look like for newer players, for more experienced players it's to get a better idea on how you perceive hands.
You can also submit hands which I will receive & sometimes comment back on if you should keep/mull and how to play them.

[Asthereal]

Hand Generator is live: http://www.theepicstorm.com/#handgenerator

Suggestion for a small change to the tool:
Maybe you can have it auto-enter your name and e-mail address again when you get a new hand after submitting the first?
Now I have to enter my contact info again for each hand, if I want to submit it, and that's a tad annoying.

Other than that, excellent tool!