[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Stevestamopz]

I have REB in my Goblins sideboard for Omnitell and it's pretty neato, albeit a bit hard to cast in a deck with 4 port/waste/cavern.

[Barook]

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...decklists.html

A list with some rather unconventional choices going 7-1 in the Legacy Invitational part of SCG:

9 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas

2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vryn Wingmare
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Mangara of Corondor
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Pithing Needle
1 Containment Priest
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
3 Rest in Peace
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Holy Light
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
1 Cataclysm
1 Council's Judgment

Can't really say I'm a fan of only 3 Flickerwisp or double Canopy when you're already cutting a white source. 3x E-Tutor with 4x Wingmare and the random Nahiri are also very WTF.

[Zombie]

I don't see it as all that strange. If it's a cantrip cartel meta 8 Thalias sounds like a place where I want to be at. It's not like they have that much removal, and if the resistors just keep dropping at some point they have to settle for half of their deck costing twice as much mana as usual and the rest being more clunky. It's a pretty logical move, all in all. Lets you keep the flying beaters too, but is probably better than Mindcensor and plays more to the deck's plan than Avengers do.

[Barook]

I don't see it as all that strange. If it's a cantrip cartel meta 8 Thalias sounds like a place where I want to be at. It's not like they have that much removal, and if the resistors just keep dropping at some point they have to settle for half of their deck costing twice as much mana as usual and the rest being more clunky. It's a pretty logical move, all in all. Lets you keep the flying beaters too, but is probably better than Mindcensor and plays more to the deck's plan than Avengers do.

I'm not suprised by the 8x taxing effects, but more by the card that are run alongside it.

It's also notable that this build gets utterly destroyed by -1/-1-effects.

[Vandalize]

Sup guys, I've been absent from playing Legacy for like 2 months now. Suddenly Death and Taxes became R/W and one the most powerful/fun deck to play. Lucky me, I guess. I have a couple questions regarding deckbuilding...

My list:

Lands [23]
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
4 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau

Creatures [26]
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Flickerwisp
3 Imperial Recruiter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Mirran Crusader

Spells [11]
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard [15]
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
3 Sudden Demise
2 Council's Judgement
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Leonin-Relic Warder

Ok, so here we go:

1) How valuable is Sudden Demise in the R/W sideboard? I guess it's only for the Elves! matchup (or some random mono-color aggro strat).

2) How's Vryn Wingmare been doing? Flying seems very appealing, but maybe Ethersworn Canonist should be the 5th hatebear maindeck (and that would open a slot in the sideboard).

3) Council's Judgement is only hate for True-Name Nemesis?

4) How do we board against Mentor Miracles (now that boarding Swords to Plowshares out isn't an option)?

Thanks in advance.

[neddsaurus]

I like the SCG list and those mentioned on the previous page, except that they eat -1 -1 hard. Sulfur elemental, dread, ZP, staticaster etc

I lIke rw the best now since it dodges the -1 -1. Recruiter allows you to have a bunch of 1 of that you can choose from depending on the board. If dread is out, u can fetch LRW or another red creature.

Nothing will stop turn 1 dread on the play. Uber frustrating

[iatee]

1) How valuable is Sudden Demise in the R/W sideboard? I guess it's only for the Elves! matchup (or some random mono-color aggro strat).

2) How's Vryn Wingmare been doing? Flying seems very appealing, but maybe Ethersworn Canonist should be the 5th hatebear maindeck (and that would open a slot in the sideboard).

3) Council's Judgement is only hate for True-Name Nemesis?

4) How do we board against Mentor Miracles (now that boarding Swords to Plowshares out isn't an option)?

Thanks in advance.

1. Sudden demise is a super powerful card but elves isn't popular at all at the moment so I don't think 3 is necessary
2. I don't like it very much, but it is useful to have at least one flyer to tutor up. The 4 thalia / 4 wingmare stax strategy will straight up destroy some decks and do little to nothing against others. The flexibility of the red splash means you don't have to put all your eggs in that basket and lose to a bunch of creatures or a -1/-1 effect.
3. Not a ton of TNN's lately either, but it's a useful card in your hand against any slower deck post-sb, and any non-tempo game where your 4 STPs will feel taxed
4. Take out maguses, put in ratchet bomb, pithing needle and maybe a council's judgment over the fiend hunter. I have never played w/ fiend hunter but it seems like the upside of a tutorable-answer-to-mentor isn't worth the downside of a low-value 1/3 after they get rid of it.

[Barook]

1. Sudden demise is a super powerful card but elves isn't popular at all at the moment so I don't think 3 is necessary
2. I don't like it very much, but it is useful to have at least one flyer to tutor up. The 4 thalia / 4 wingmare stax strategy will straight up destroy some decks and do little to nothing against others. The flexibility of the red splash means you don't have to put all your eggs in that basket and lose to a bunch of creatures or a -1/-1 effect.
3. Not a ton of TNN's lately either, but it's a useful card in your hand against any slower deck post-sb, and any non-tempo game where your 4 STPs will feel taxed
4. Take out maguses, put in ratchet bomb, pithing needle and maybe a council's judgment over the fiend hunter. I have never played w/ fiend hunter but it seems like the upside of a tutorable-answer-to-mentor isn't worth the downside of a low-value 1/3 after they get rid of it.

Some additional notes:

- Playing less than 4 Flickerwisp is always incorrect. I would rather cut down on a Revoker. With Recruiter, you would still have 5 ways to access it, if needed.
- Sudden Demise does also work against Young Pyromancer strategies. Maybe cut 1 Demise for 1 Goblin Sharpshooter as tutor target which helps in various match-ups (including shooting down Mentor tokens)?

People on Salvation are currently testing Sword of War and Peace as a SB card. I'd love to hear more about that.

[Vandalize]

1. Sudden demise is a super powerful card but elves isn't popular at all at the moment so I don't think 3 is necessary
2. I don't like it very much, but it is useful to have at least one flyer to tutor up. The 4 thalia / 4 wingmare stax strategy will straight up destroy some decks and do little to nothing against others. The flexibility of the red splash means you don't have to put all your eggs in that basket and lose to a bunch of creatures or a -1/-1 effect.
3. Not a ton of TNN's lately either, but it's a useful card in your hand against any slower deck post-sb, and any non-tempo game where your 4 STPs will feel taxed
4. Take out maguses, put in ratchet bomb, pithing needle and maybe a council's judgment over the fiend hunter. I have never played w/ fiend hunter but it seems like the upside of a tutorable-answer-to-mentor isn't worth the downside of a low-value 1/3 after they get rid of it.

Some additional notes:

- Playing less than 4 Flickerwisp is always incorrect. I would rather cut down on a Revoker. With Recruiter, you would still have 5 ways to access it, if needed.
- Sudden Demise does also work against Young Pyromancer strategies. Maybe cut 1 Demise for 1 Goblin Sharpshooter as tutor target which helps in various match-ups (including shooting down Mentor tokens)?

People on Salvation are currently testing Sword of War and Peace as a SB card. I'd love to hear more about that.

Oh, I didn't know Flickerwisp was a sacred cow, but I guess the utility is really powerful to warrant 4 slots. What about this list:

Lands [23]
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
4 Plains
2 PLateau

Creatures [26]
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
3 Imperial Recruiter
2 Magus of the moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Vryn Wingmare

Spells [11]
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard [15]
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgement
2 Sudden Demise
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Leonin-Relic Warder
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb

Goblin Sharpshooter seems a good high risk/high reward when it's easily tutorable. I like it.

[Villeneuve]

Hi all, new to the source but been playing magic for about 8 years, and dnt for a little while now. I moved to the red splash a little while ago but have never thought about using Sharpshooter until I read some of the posts here. Has anyone tried playing it main? It seems to me that Taxes is a deck that relies most on moving with the meta and tokens are a huge part of the current meta whether they be Young Pyromancer tokens or Monastery Mentor tokens.

cheers!

[Barook]

Edit: I'm currently looking for better ways to remove enchantments and artifacts: While Leonin-Relic Warder is good against stuff like Omnitell, it's a one-shot effect has the whole "bounce-back" problematic if they happen to have removal.

Given the high number of humans the deck runs, has anybody tried out Devout Chaplain as Recruiter target? Yes, it's slow, requires board presence and lacks immediate impact, but Recruiter already provides one of the other two humans required.

I'm not talking about replacing Warder, I would see Chaplain as supplement at best if it turns out to be usable.

Hi all, new to the source but been playing magic for about 8 years, and dnt for a little while now. I moved to the red splash a little while ago but have never thought about using Sharpshooter until I read some of the posts here. Has anyone tried playing it main? It seems to me that Taxes is a deck that relies most on moving with the meta and tokens are a huge part of the current meta whether they be Young Pyromancer tokens or Monastery Mentor tokens.

Stevestamopz played it in the MD. He was also the first one to suggest it. Maybe you should ask him.

Oh, I didn't know Flickerwisp was a sacred cow, but I guess the utility is really powerful to warrant 4 slots. What about this list:

Lands [23]
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
4 Plains
2 PLateau

Creatures [26]
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
3 Imperial Recruiter
2 Magus of the moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Vryn Wingmare

Spells [11]
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard [15]
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgement
2 Sudden Demise
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Leonin-Relic Warder
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb

Goblin Sharpshooter seems a good high risk/high reward when it's easily tutorable. I like it.

Personally, I would run 7 fetches/3 basic Plains instead of a 6/4 split. Other than that, the list looks pretty good.

[Stevestamopz]

Edit: I'm currently looking for better ways to remove enchantments and artifacts: While Leonin-Relic Warder is good against stuff like Omnitell, it's a one-shot effect has the whole "bounce-back" problematic if they happen to have removal.

Given the high number of humans the deck runs, has anybody tried out Devout Chaplain as Recruiter target? Yes, it's slow, requires board presence and lacks immediate impact, but Recruiter already provides one of the other two humans required.

I'm not talking about replacing Warder, I would see Chaplain as supplement at best if it turns out to be usable.

What about Duergar Hedge-Mage? It's a bit conditional for my liking, but it could do the trick? May be worth testing. Mangara can also blow up whatever albeit slowly.

Stevestamopz played it in the MD. He was also the first one to suggest it. Maybe you should ask him.

It's ok. It has times when it's not great but when it's good it is pure gasoline in my experience. Like mother of runes it's one of those "no attacks, no blocks" type creatures but it can do some really cool shit that your opponent might not play around e.g: attack with thalia into an x/3, and then ping it once first strike damage has resolved. Also elves is super hard to lose to now, with Sharpshooter, Maguses and Sudden Demises postboard. And obviously it just mows down tokens like no tomorrow, but that's pretty obvious. Try it out and let us know.

Thanks for the shoutout Barook!

[c2232]

Oh, I didn't know Flickerwisp was a sacred cow

It's not, I think there are good reasons to cut a Flick.

[iatee]

Edit: I'm currently looking for better ways to remove enchantments and artifacts: While Leonin-Relic Warder is good against stuff like Omnitell, it's a one-shot effect has the whole "bounce-back" problematic if they happen to have removal.

I have found a combination of revokers and 2 relic warders to be fine. Playing more revokers (which have tons of use in other matchups) seems like a better idea than playing slow creatures just for that effect. Same w/ mangara - he's tutorable, has use outside of dealing w/ artifacts/enchantments. Relic warder and revoker also come out very quickly, so can deal w/ a jitte, vial or LED on turn 2 - chaplain is just going to be way too slow to handle those things. And against omnitell do you really want to be leaving 3 creatures back every turn?

[iatee]

All the other options are generally ETB triggers (manic vandal, war priest of thune etc.) or sac effects (keening apparition, pridgemage etc.), both of which have their own downsides (vandal/war priest are less flexible than relic, sac effects are just a 1 for 1.) But playing a 1 of manic vandal and/or a 1 of war priest in the sb doesn't seem like the worst idea if you can find room. I know some of Bahra's lists had manic vandal in the sideboard.

[Jedi]

Hi all. So I'm a total Noob in Legacy but I'm thinking of putting together D&T for GP Seattle. What's a decent/current W/R build look like and what makes it any better than just going straight W?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[iatee]

Vandalize's list upthread is good. There aren't that many open spots in the deck once you have the core D+T package plus a 3/2 recruiter/magus split. Every 3 drop on that list outside of the red cards and flickerwisps are what you could consider flex spots for the main.

The real benefits of the R/W build are:

- A decent % of legacy decks straight up fold to blood moon, and blood moon out of aether vial is particularly nasty. Even if you don't have magus, the constant threat of instant speed blood moon provides its own taxing effect.
- Recruiter adds a ton of consistency to the deck - having to play off the top when your opponent gets card selection has always been one of D+T's biggest issues. He also ensures you'll see your sideboard cards if you build your sideboard w/ him in mind, similar to e-tutor packages.
- Recruiter also gives you some card advantage. The 1/1 body seems minor but squadron hawking w/ an piece of equipment out is very powerful in grindy games. He's also a good chump blocker and the best flickerwisp target around.
- Red sideboard cards give you more room to beat some otherwise terrible matchups like elves

The downsides:

- The vanilla beaters are generally the cuts from the mono-w deck. Fewer flyers / brimaz makes it harder to win pure races, slows down your clock against ticking time bomb combo decks like omni.
- Manabase has more wasteland/stifle targets.
- Magus is occasionally a grey ogre (or worse if he shuts off your utility lands) g1 against decks w/ reliable mana.

[neddsaurus]

You also don't flat out lose to dread of night

[iatee]

Right,
Pro - dread of night goes from auto-lose to annoying nuisance
Con - massacre and pyroclasm are slightly better

(Minor pro - w/ so many non-basics and esp if you have a vial hand, you can sometimes play around massacre by not playing or fetching a plains)

[neddsaurus]

Also red rewards you for playing more humans, which is great with cavern. Cavern in mono white or green is not very good because of all the creature types. Uncounterable thalia turn 2, feels good