You know what - the more I think about Karador, Ghost Chieftain, the more I like it. Consider the following combinations:
Eternal Witness + Diabolic Intent is pretty much a wet dream where every turn you get to cast (an expensive) Demonic Tutor.
Eternal Witness + Phyrexian Tower + any discard spell = your opponent goes into topdeck mode.
Eternal Witness + Phyrexian Tower + Path to Exile = enjoy your creatures while they last.
Eternal Witness + Pernicious Deed = well... you get the picture.
Your opponent Wastelands your Tower? Meh, just kill off the Witness, recast it and hello, Tower. Might need a Sylvan Safekeeper to, well, keep Karador safe.
You can only cast a creture from the graveyard once per turn.Originally Posted by Echelon
Reccuring nightmare is strictly better for looping any creature aand doubles as a sac outlet, protects itself, and can be used multiple times turn.
Dryad Arbor is... kinda the point of the deck. You use a fetchland to grab it so that you don't need otherwise dead cards like GSZ to search up an Explorer. Perhaps the deck could use more fetches to that end; I haven't quite nailed down the final manabase yet. Even if I can't fetch it up before going off, you're still pretty fine as long as you plan ahead for that small bit of disruption.
Not sure how exactly the removal suite should go yet; that's still a work in progress. Good call on Path over Swords here; that's not something I'd considered, though I'm not sure how much better it is than maxing out on Deeds and Decays. I hadn't considered Submerge either; I suppose Sigarda could have a wishboard slot as a hedge against those effects, but it might just be better to have a powerful ETB effect like Hornet Queen for locking down the board against those kind of effects. While I enjoy planeswalkers and have a bunch of them in my build, I do want a better way to leverage having 11-12 lands in play; hence Decree.
I'm not sold at all on Glittering Wish; there aren't enough multicolored game-enders in Abzan colors, and it doesn't solve the problem of the wish getting countered (that's what gets countered, not the Eldrazi or whatever).
I know. And doing that seems like value enough when using said sequences.
It can only be used at sorcery speed, so it can't really protect itself all that well. Forget to use it before going to your combat phase (or end step, if you cast it in your 2nd main phase), and it's a sitting duck. Besides, it needs a creature on the board to start doing stuff. Karador is fine with sitting there by his lonesome. Seeing a Recurring Nightmare on a creatureless board is just the saddest thing ever. Sure, Karador only lets you cast 1 creature card a turn from your GY, but in the late game that's the kind of stuff that'll let you take over the game. Also, Karador-on-the-board allows you to not give a shit about FoW & friends.
As far as sacrificing stuff goes - I might be a bit biased b/c I run an oddball build with 4 Diabolic Intent and 9 sacrificing outlets in total.
Run more discard! Also, be more patient. As I said, you're trying to play out your deck like a combo deck, so think like one. Plan your line, check your opponents' hand and only go for it if you are 100% sure it is safe to do so. The opportunity to go for it is one you get only once or twice a game, so make sure it's there and when it is, make it count.
So....
Ob Nixilis Reignited
3BB
Planeswalker - Ob Nixilis
[+1]: Draw a card. You lose 1 life.
[-3]: Drestroy target creature.
[-8]: Target opponent gets an emblem with "When you draw a card lose 2 life."
This....seems good.
Current Build: Punishing Rhinos http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post927726
Ultimate seems less shitty than before.
Drawing an extra card for one life? Why not just play Arena, or in fact, Sylvan?
Path over Swords in the white build is an obvious choice, and I've talked about this for a long time. This is what I was thinking of trying as of late:
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Path to Exile
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Sylvan Library
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
3 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas/Taiga
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Cranial Extraction/Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Tsunami
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
Tracker might be loose, but clearing out opposing Peezy's and such so you can rumble through seems fine. I think there was an argument of Tsunami over Choke, so I've left Tsunami in to try. If Tracker is definite no bueno, then I'll cut it for the 3rd PTE or Elspeth. Overall though, I just dislike how fetching up basics makes the two matchups that are really popular, Miracles and Omni, very bad. :/
I'd rather not go into 4 colours, but Slaughter Games >>> Cranial. Ugh. Also why I've included more DRS, and just go 3/3.
-Matt
The tracker is cute, if you can make it stick.
Concerning the Ob Nixilis walker - it does make your opponents' late game Brainstorms suck the big one. But it's so slow. Even Vraska would be a quicker clock (and a more funny one, at that).
like your list !
but i would play one path more and one zenith less
do u have some play reports of this one?
cheers
IF you were playing with Vraska this new walker is better. The question is still whether a 5 mana value walker is good enough. This is better than arena for a few reasons. One is that a walker doesnt die to 3+ deeds. Not always relevant but still non-trivial. The fact that your CA engine can also tick down to kill creatures is also helpful. The biggest draw I think is that this builds pressure in a few ways (both giving you cards and the ultimate will kill them and quicker than they think at minimum 4 a full turn cycle. Whether these benefits out way a 5 mana price tag i dont know. I doubt it.
Also the art sucks so I am not very inclined to look into this.
sdematt- Is your list made for the general metagame or is this with your specific locale in mind?
Hey everybody, I know I'm usually the silent majority on this thread since everyone plays Junk Fit, but I still believe ScapeFit is the best variant right now. Took a break from legacy to grind out modern, but here is an updated list for anyone that is looking for a good list tuned against the current meta (good matchups against Delver variants and Omnitell both pre and post boarding:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
3 Green Suns Zenith
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
2 Scapeshift
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Senseis Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deeds
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badland
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Verdant Catacomb
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard:
1 Reanimate
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
1 Tsunami
3 Slaughter Games
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
Snap reactions to Kiora and Ob Nix:
-) Kiora is disgusting IF Dig Through Time sticks around. Like, seriously, if Dig sticks we could actually end up being the best Dig deck, which would be hilariously ironic to me. If Dig does get banned, then she's a fine 'walker but is likely worse than Kiora 1, unless you find something broken to do with Kiora 2's +1 -- like, you know, untapping Gaia's Cradle (which is unlikely in nic fit, but, you know...).
-) Ob Nix is a very, very strong sideboard option. I don't think he's maindeckable unless Punishing Jund comes back in a big way, but Nic Fit as an archetype has a long history of sideboarding various planeswalkers to give additional angles of attack in grindy matchups, and Ob is basically tailor-made for that plan for us. This is a man who can win a grindy mirror. We've usually opted for combat walkers, not utility walkers, mostly because of Jace -- but Ob can and will race Jace TMS, while drawing us an extra card a turn on top of it.
Other stuff, glancing through:
-) Enemy manland hype. Calling the BG one to have deathtouch, which would actually be worth considering...probably gets dismissed just because coming into play tapped is too sheisty, but I'd at least think about it.
-) Hedron Archive is fringe interesting, but probably more of a MUD / 12post thing.
-) Blight Herder has a ton of value attached to it, but the odds of getting to trigger it are a little unlikely outside of DRS/Ooze + Swords/Path, and even if you can trigger it reliably, I'm not sure it's better than any existing 5-drops...although getting double value from a DRS or an Ooze off the same three creatures is actually kind of adorbs.
-) Oran-Rief Hydra is actually worth keeping an eye on. It has trample, we play a lot of Forests, and it gets out of control -very- quickly. Probably still not better than Primeval.
-) Radiant Flames is a REALLY cool card, and is still not better than Pyroclasm for that role in sideboards and wishboards. Stick with the tried and true over the new and cool.
-) As much as I don't want him to be, Gideon is probably competition with Elspeth in the combat walker category. Elspeth's redbull might still be too worth to ignore, but making a 2/2 instead of a 1/1 is relevant, and +1ing to become an indestructible 5/5 isn't strictly the worst if you're not worried about StP in the matchup (looking at Shardless, Jund, etc here).
-) Tango lands are really cool for people who are getting into Nic Fit from newer formats. We're one of a very small handful of decks (Miracles comes to mind for another) that actually runs enough basics to realistically turn on the Tangos easily and reliably. Scapewish still opts for Stomping Grounds over the R/G Tango, I'm pretty sure. Note that this means that we should all be ready for newer players looking into the deck.
-) Brood Butcher is a cool card for limited, and not for us at all. This does call to mind the question, though -- does Devoid count in all zones? Meaning, Brood Butcher is a 3gb creature with Devoid. Can we Green Sun Zenith it? The wording doesn't really offer any clues -- maybe I'll toss it up on facebook later and tag some judges.
-) Fathom Feeder does not replace Baleful Strix in any world.
-) Bring to Light is capable of some really stupid things. I don't know what they are off the top of my head, but there's no way that card doesn't have the potential for some absurdity.
-) Undergrowth Champion is neat, but doesn't have any evasion or protection, so it loses my interest. Maybe if it had a clause where if it had X counters it gains trample or something, but it doesn't, so.
-) Smothering Abomination is probably the most exciting non-planeswalker at this point. Dying to Bolt makes him less attractive, but he has a very powerful effect and he's a 4-power flyer for 4, which is not common. It would be fairly easy to turn him into at least a Howling Mine through the use of bloodghast or something similar, and the potential exists to go deeper (Ghave exists and has seen play in the past here). I don't have any interest in brewing the deck for it, but I would not be in the least surprised if there's a variant starring that guy somewhere.
Thoughts on some of the cards-
- The new man land is worse than tar pit. If you do not play tar pit I am not sure if this is really any better. IF I wanted a third man land this would be over a 3rd tar pit and before anything else but 4 mana activation is a lot. It does take down jace when they do not have creatures but stp or bolt in hand where tar pit cannot but I think the 4th mana to activate is bigger than ppl will think. That said, I do like it but I am not sure nic fit would be the best shell. A bug landstill type deck might be better. The bg one will almost certainly have deathouch and unless the activation cost is very small probably not worth playing. We have a wide range of man lands right now, 3/3 trample for 2, 3/4 reach, 3/3grow on attack, 3/2 unblockable and none of these see much play aside from occasional tar pit use in bug and sometimes treetop in GB decks with prime. Landstill decks now have a plethora of options though...
- The hydra is just worse than prime time. The value from prime time is immediate, tutor effect is huge in the Fit decks that play him essentially making him a free 6/6 trample. When I played it in punishing fire version the 2 lands were a bigger deal than the body even though the body killed plenty of ppl.
- Tango lands (is that really what we came up with as a community? lol) are not playable. shocks are duals 5+ already and very few decks need that many. Scape is the only one that needs that many mountain types and they only play 1 I believe.
- Bring to light is very interesting. I am not sure what to do with this but I am going to brew with it in modern. I just do not think its good enough in legacy. I play esper mentor in modern as I just think 4c gifts is not good enough but bring to light seems sweet so maybe I will try smth with it.
- Kiora is certainly interesting. She is 4 mana which is great as few 5 mana walkers ever really see play even in our decks its basically garruk only. The tick down is amazing. Digging 4 cards is huge. I would imagine if we want her we would play either (or both) witness or snap in some amounts so that taking one of those give us access to the spells we mill over like deed, top, brainstorm, decay, etc. The tick up seems great with a mana dork actually. Like untaping DRS and land to have decay up seems like a decent protection in a build with her. Idk, I am hesitant to write her off as digging 4 cards down is so powerful but the land plus dude only aspect sucks. I would start with 4-5 snaps/witness and also a stronghold in the deck. She pitches to force which isnt irrelevant for me at least.
Thank you Bryan !
Don't you think that abrupt decay is overlapping with Deed ?
I would easily replace them with Sudden Shock, since Tarmo/CB are usually not a real problem for the deck.
Sudden shock would drastically improve a few other MU (poison for example) while still answering, for good, to a flipped delver.
Not to mention that Split second can also be rather nice against pyromancer/mentor or even an active Mom.
At last, the ability to, at least, go to the Dome could sometimes make a difference.
What do you think ? Do I miss anything relevant ?
Another question: I see you have elected to play only 23 lands and 4 tops. Can you give us some tips about the way you are usually keeping an opening hand?
I.E: was the 4th top a mean to hedge against such a choice ?
Happy to discuss !
Hey Ralf!
Here are some responses to your questions:
On Sudden Shock vs Abrupt Decay: Decay handles so many things other than just creatures that it is still very much needed in the deck (like counterbalance). Is there overlap with Deeds? Absolutely, however the difference is that abrupt decay on a 2CMC item (like a 3/4 goyf) is 2 mana, while a Deeds for 2 requires 5 mana. This deck wants to prolong a game, the longer the game goes, the better chances of it winning. Deeds is great because it lets you wipe a board, but abrupt decay help you out tremendously in the early game.
23 lands and 4 SDT: This deck doesn't run blue, so we don't have access to brainstorms, ponders, etc. Drawing an SDT is pretty important and I generally have a hard time winning if I don't land one within the first few turns. 23 lands, never had an issue with mana screw.
Opening Hands: In an ideal world, your opening hand is going to be: Cabal Therapy, Explorer, Thoughtseize, SDT, 2 lands, GSZ, Burning Wish. This hand should play: T1: Thoughtseize, T2: Cabal Therapy, Explorer, Flashback Therapy, SDT, filter next draw, T3: Start playing dense threats.
Ideally, I want a hand with some early disruption, accerlation, and some type of threat. I would keep a hand of a discard, an early ramp (wood elves, explorer, or sakura tribe elder), abrupt decay, a couple of lands, SDT. That is usually pre-board not knowing what my opponent is on. Obviously post-board its going to vary.
Hey, I'm quite new to magic and am currently building my first deck (I guess you can call it Junkpod Fit). I would appreciate suggestions very much. If you got questions I will gladly answer them.
Lands (22/23):
Dryad Arbor
Phyrexian Tower
Karakas
Volrath's Stronghold
Wasteland
3xForest
2xPlains
Savannah
Scrubland
2Swamp
4xVerdant Catacombs
4xWindswept Heath
Creatures (20/19):
4xVeteran Explorer
Deathrite Shaman
Scavenging Ooze
2xStrangleroot Geist
Bone Shredder
2xEternal Witness
Reclamation Sage
Kitchen Finks
Restoration Angel
2xSiege Rhino
Acidic Slime
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Sun Titan
Other Stuff:
2xAbrupt Decay
3xBirthing Pod
4xCabal Therapy
2xDiabolic Intent
2xGreen Sun's Zenith
3xPernicious Deed
Recurring Nightmare
Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard sth. like this:
Pernicious Deed
Murderous Redcap
Maelstrom Pulse
2xThoughtseize
Gaddock Teeg
2xEthersworn Canonist
Orzhov Pontiff
Surgical Extraction
2xExtirpate
Abrupt Decay
2xSwords to Plowshares
I went 3-1 at my weekly. List is basically the same. I have Grave titan and Thrun in the main. I never played nor wanted titan so i think that will not be back. I did like having a thrun main though.
I beat grixis control round 1. Won in 2 games mostly due to early therapies backed by PWs. Deed was house.
Rd2 I beat black DnT (TS, Bobs and scullers were the splash).
Rd3 I was on camera at mead hall against aluren and totally fucked up game 3. Had him at 1 life, jace in play and just made a couple decisions that were pretty bad so I actually lost that somehow......uhhhhhhh the salt is real.
Rd4 I beat storm.
Welcome!
Nice list.
I would suggest a few changes:
- Sigarda is nice & all but in such a list I would rather not play her. She shines in list with equipments / or when she is your top of the curve. She has nothing to bring to the table in yours (except that she is one of the best creature ever). Thragtusk will fit the bill, just plain better.
- Bone shredder should be a MD Orzhov Pontiff, given the current metagame. Not sure I would put Bone in the side...
- Thrun should be in your list. Having an uncounterable (which Sigarda is not)/hexproof guy to feed your pod chain is a must.
- Double up on your 6-CMC creature, just because sometimes you have your 6 drop in your hand. Sun Titan + Grave Titan, for example.
- I like "persist" or "undying" at every thresh you reach. Murderous Redcap @CMC 4 is really really nice. You could live with just 1 Strangleroot Geist, I guess. Furthermore, those abilities are completely broken with Restoration Angel.
- If you like playing with recurring nightmare, deed, etc... A one-of "Academy Rector" could also be a very nice addition (including sideboard strategy as well with powerful enchantment)
Hope this will give you food for thoughts.
Sidisi is the more glaring exclusion -- Sidisi grabbing Nightmare in a Pod list is very, very strong.
I'll defend Sigarda as much as Ralf condemns it, although some of that is probably because I still have a lot of random BGx midrange Liliana decks around my area. I would at least recommend sideboarding her, and if Dig Through Time gets the axe, she immediately goes maindeck again.
The 2nd Intent is redundant. You could cut that to simply add the Sidisi, if you wish -- Sidisi does what Intent does, but is poddable and has a very respectable body.
I would also cut the Volrath's Stronghold, because you already have a lot of utility lands and colorless sources. Are you not running any Bayous?
I suppose here I should take a break and ask if you're running budget or not. I didn't think of it when I saw the 1-of Savannah and Scrublands, because those are the less important duals, but no Bayous is kind of a red flag since that's the most important land for any Nic Fit.
Regardless of budgetary concerns, though, I would still 100% recommend a Sidisi over a Diabolic Intent.
6 5 4 4 3 2 is my usual Pod curve, by the way. I tend to not run as many spells and try to run more creatures with spell effects, to increase the consistency of Pod while also strengthening the random dudes plan that all Pod decks invariably end up on at some point in their lives.
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