Also brimaz is both a beater and good vs lightning bolt decks. He can't be tutored, isn't a human but still might be better if that's really what you want.
Thalia and Brimaz are both soldiers though for Cavern purposes, so it's not a complete lack of synergy I suppose.
Cockatrice: Bosque
Placed 9 of 34 in LGS Legacy Tournament. I haven't played in a while, really rusty and did not know the current meta well. Here's my list:
Creatures: 26
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Serra Avenger
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
4 Vryn Wingmare
Noncreature: 11
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Æther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Lands: 23
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mishra's Factory
9 Plains
Sideboard:
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Rest in Peace
1 Absolute Law
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Council's Judgment
2 Cataclysm
Round 1: Win 2-0 against Grixis Control
- Game 1: Opponent Cabal Therapy the Batterskull I fetched for with SFM. Continued to apply pressure with Thalia attacks leading to a backbreaking Snapcaster for bolt on Thalia and flashback Cabal Therapy on my fetched SoFI. Got lucky with opponent being land flooded.
- Game 2: Stuck an Absolute Law early game and rode it to win.
Scouted the players and identified the two elf players -- hope I don't matchup with them. There seemed to be a mix of delvers and young pyros were popular as well.
Round 2: Lost 0-2 against OmniTell
- Game 1: Opponent played a Volcanic Island and got to Show and Tell + Emrackul for the win. I had him on Sneak and Show after this game -- wish I knew the meta better.
- Game 2: Due to my misread, I didn't board in any Ethersworn Canonists and opponent proceeded to show --> omni --> cunning wish --> release the ants.
Round 3: Won 2-0 against Dark Depths combo
- Game 1: When I saw Dark Depths, I held onto my Karakas in hand. Used revoker on his Vampire Hexmage and forced him to create the token, played Karakas and bounced the token.
- Game 2: I had a strong board of 4 creatures (1 was Batterskull) with a revoker on Vampire Hexmage. Opponent played Tabernacle and I drew my card next turn, wiping my board -- lesson learned. It got really close as he snuck in an attack with the token after he ported my Karakas, luckily batterskull gained me life earlier. Karakas bounced his token and Flickerwisp on Batterskull for the win.
Round 4: Win 2-0 against BUG Delver
- Game 1: Rode a wall of 3 moms to victory. Opponent was definitely a more skilled player and made it close with double goyfs and flipped Delver.
- Game 2: Didn't board anything in (maybe Rest in Peace next time). Opponent stuck a TNN early but got outraced by my two wingmares. The triple tax with Thalia was too much for him as he had a hand of 3 abrupt decays and cantrips.
Round 5: Lost 0-2 against Lands
- Game 1: Opponent used the Thespian stage + Dark Depths combo. I don't really know the deck well and assumed he was similar to my previous opponent using Vampire Hexmage.
- Game 2: Boarded in two Rest in Peace and 1 Pithing Needle (for Thespian). This was such a grindy game, opponent hits me once with the Dark Depths token and I bounced it with Karakas (held it in hand). Opponent managed life really well, I had him down to 1 and he used Glacial Chasm + Thespian + Loam to lock me down. It took me a while to figure out what he was doing with Punishing Fire and I wish I had boarded in Absolute Law. It was a really slow death for me as my only outs were Flickerwisp (for Glacial Chasm) or Rest in Peace -- can't believe I didn't draw any of those 6 cards in such a long game. I was down to about 20-card library by the end. Revoker on Mox Diamond was good.
Next time: board in Rest in Peace, Pithing Needle, Absolute Law, Cataclysm.
Round 6: Won 2-0 against Mentor Miracles
- Game 1: Opponent resolved two mentors and started to build up tokens. Wasteland his tundra and double tax with Thalia+Wingmare slowed his token generation and let my Jitte do the rest.
- Game 2: Boarded in Ratchet Bomb, two Cataclysms. It was a really tight grindy match this time and opponent was going to overrun me with mentor tokens. Opponent conceded to give me the win -- I had Cataclysm in hand which would have prolonged the game even more.
My Thoughts
The Wingmares are legit, it made me smile every time I had it in hand, the evasion helps a lot -- double/triple tax ftw! Serra Avengers were my beaters and I think 3 is a good number here.
For the sideboard, I am going to take out the two Grafdigger's cage and Manriki-Gusari. I didn't see much Elves or Stoneblades and want to have a better chance against Omnitell -- only matchup I felt I had no chance. I'm going to put in two Trinispheres.
It felt really good to play again after such a long time away from the scene. This deck is very interactive and is especially enjoyable with the way it guides you on your plays. I always feel I have a chance to win (except for elves).
So I've been testing with goblin sharpshooter, and have been mostly happy with it. Had it in play vs d+t, which was strong (ate brimaz tokens, flickerwisp, created bad blocking situations) and vs elves (I already more or less had a lock with mom+ethersworn+containment priest, but it was fun to wipe his board.) Still not convinced it's good vs. miracles, but it's definitely useful to have a tutorable pinger in the board.
That said, Cunning Sparkmage is less fun but also probably better vs D+T cause it can actually kill a mom. Also marginally easier to cast (human) and the 0/3 body lets it occasionally block.
Hey guys!
Last Sunday I played a 80 players tournament in Valladolid (Spain), doing Top 8 after make a 5-1-1 in swiss rounds with mono-white D&T.
The deck is still a great option in the actual Legacy metagame. I love Vryn Wingmare's version. It is really powerful. Won lots of games with oponents frustrated at not being able to play anything.
Here is the list I played:
4 x Mother of Runes
4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
3 x Phyrexian Revoker
3 x Serra Avenger
4 x Flickerwisp
4 x Vryn Wingmare
2 x Mirran Crusader
4 x Aether Vial
4 x Swords to Plowshares
1 x Batterskull
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
1 x Umezawa's Jitte
4 x Wasteland
4 x Rishadan Port
7 x Plains
3 x Flagstones of Trokair
3 x Karakas
1 x Horizon Canopy
1 x Cavern of Souls
SIDEBOARD:
2 x Council's Judgment
2 x Cataclysm
1 x Pithing Needle
2 x Chalice of the Void
3 x Ethersworn Canonist
2 x Ratchet Bomb
3 x Rest in Peace
After not sleeping in Madrid, I started the travel to Valladolid early and very sleepy with some mates. After more than 2 hours, we arrived and had a coffee before the Legacy Event. So I was ready to start!
Round 1: Jund.
G1: I started the tounament with mull to 6. I could stop his start with Wasteland and double Swords to DRS and Dark Confidant. I played Stoneforge protected by a turn 1 Mother of Runes. After that, he vomited his powerful hand and draws: Lightning Bolts + Hymn + Liliana + double Tarmogoyf = GG.
G2: I mulliganed to 6 again and the start was like G1. Mother of Runes + Wasteland + Revoker (DRS) and only his basic Forest available. Next turns I played Port and started to attack him with a Flickerwisp to finish the game.
G3: I maked a missplay keeping a pretty bad hand on the draw: Port + Vial without more lands. So he discarded my Vial on turn 1 and I needed 2 turns to draw a white source. When I started to play he was attacking me with Goyfs and Ooze so I lost...
0-1
Round 2: Manaless Dredge.
G1: He pushed my slow start with lots of 2/2 Zombies and I concede.
G2: I played turn 1 Mother and turn 2 Canonist. He casted a Therapy and passed when my draws were Ratchet Bomb and Cataclysm. He played Dread Return and pass. I had the game with my sideboard cards. I resolved Cataclysm and Bomb and he concede.
G3: Pretty good start with turn 1 Mother + turn 2 Thalia + turn 3 RiP and he automatically concede.
1-1
Round 3: BUG Delver.
G1: He pushed me with Tarmogoyfs and Gurmag Angler really fast.
G2: I broke his manabase and started to push with Mirran Crusader and Vryn Wingmare.
G3: Broke again his manabase with a great hand with: double Port, double Wasteland, RiP and Vial without creatures. He only played a Dread of Night and Decayed one of my 2 RiP in play cause of mana denial and I searched Batterskull with a Stoneforge Mystic, equiped and won turns after.
2-1
Round 4: Infect.
He was one of my car mates. Sadly, he maked 5-2 and finished 9th.
G1: He started with Glistener Elf and Hierarch and maked me 6 poison counters. I managed to stabilize and played Thalia + Wingmare until I drew Mystic for end the game with Jitte into Wingmare.
G2: He Griped my Ratchet Bomb and next turn I played Jitte. With Ports, Wastelands and Vryn + Jitte I ended the game quickly.
3-1
Round 5: UR Delver.
I knew him from Madrid and that he was on UR Delver too. I had played against him repeatedly in Madrid Leagues.
G1: Vial up to 3 with 3 Vryn Wingmares and a Flickerwisp and their Swiftspears and TNN helplessly.
G2: He mulliganed to 5 (4 lands and a Daze). I started the mana denial's party and searched SoFaI with Mystic so GG.
4-1
Round 6: Grixis Delver + DRS.
G1: I played Revoker for his two DRS and won with Mirran Crusader because he did not find Young Pyro.
G2: I eat a Forked Bolt with Pyro in play and he drew the singleton of Dread of Night so GG.
G3: I was on 8 without creatures in play and he had 4 tokens, flipped Delver and Pyro attacking and the singleton of Dread of Night again in play. I played Council's Judgment into Pyromancer hoping to draw Ratchet Bomb next turn for destroy it at 0. It happened and I continued living with 1 life!! Next turns I drew X/1 creatures and a Chalice. I played it and waited to draw another Council or Bomb for Dread of Night. He could barely play. I drew the second Bomb and started to play for win with Wingmares + Batterskull. Amazing game and top 8!!
5-1
Round 7: ID.
Quarterfinals: 4C Delver.
I was too sleepy and tired. He won me quickly. I spent a lot of time to board properly. It is pretty hard with my list against 4C.
G1: I keep a "meh" hand and ended the game with 8 lands and he won with Delver + Goyf.
G2: I mulliganed to 5 and hand was Port, Vial, Wisp without more lands and creatures. He Wastelanded me and Decayed my Vial so GG.
I recomend people to play with playset of Vryn Wingmare. You will have lots of free wins, especially against Delver, and it is a lot of fun. I think I have to improve against Tarmogoyf decks. They won me some games and I felt that I can not do anything. Maybe another Crusader in the sideboard it is OK. I was not faced against Sulfur Elemental, Night of Souls' Betrayal and other hate cards. Only Dread of Nights.
Sorry for my poor english D&T mates!
^You played with a 62 card main deck? Congrats on the finish.
Cockatrice: p00nm4n
So, I've decided to end my sojourn away from D&T and return to my beloved Mono-White version for this week's FNM. I am interesting in trying out a 4 Wingmare build that I have thrown together.
Right now, I am up in the air on if I should keep my one Mangara main, or put in a Mirran Crusader (I do expect at least one BG/X deck, probably more).
My sideboard is a hot mess right now though, since it's been a while since I was at my local store, I am just guessing what the meta is looking like.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
4 wingmares are good. I didn't have any Crusaders and did fine against BUG delver. I feel Mangara is a little slow atm. Flying evasion with wingmares/avengers seems to be pretty effective lately.Originally Posted by H
In a meta where Young Peezy and Mentor aren't massive players, I would probably reconsider playing any sort of pinger because Jitte is usually enough against most of the other decks where you want it, whilst also being very versatile.
As for which pinger is better, I'm probably just biased because Goblins is my favourite deck, but I really do believe that the card in and of itself is a very good card, sort of like how the disenchant + vindicate slivers are good on their own merits whilst cards like Piledriver and Muscle Sliver do absolutely nothing by themselves.
Sharpshooter being a 1/1 Goblin vs Sparkmage being a 0/3 Human is a big deal though I agree. If both players have run out of resources and the boardstate is clogged Sparkmage can also just ping for 1 every turn where Sharpshooter can't. I still like Sharpshooter for being able to gun down Mentor/Elemental tokens like nobodies business though, which is what Sparkmage can't do.
These are just my opinions though, and I'm probably super wrong.
Cunning Sparkmage is a 0/1. You're thinking Izzet Staticaster which can only be vialed in (or requires blue Cavern mana) unless you include a blue splash into the manabase.
The perils of not doing my own research.
Yeah, I don't know why you would play Sparkmage over shooter now.
Haha yeah that one was actually my bad. I did play Sharpshooter again last night vs Esper Stoneblade, and it was awkwardly in my hand waiting for his Lingering Souls tokens that never showed up g2. So Sparkmage does have the upside of doing minor damage to the opponent even when it's not blowing them out.
I played a various small legacy events this week in NYC w/ Imperial. Overall:
Lost to BUG delver (G1 I had 2 creatures and a mirran crusader out, he had removal, removal, lili minus. G2 he had needle for my t1 vial, darkblast. Drew 0 STP both games.)
Beat Storm (Lost g1 on t1, Normal hatebear lockouts g2, g3)
Lost to Elves (T3 natural order both games)
Beat D+T (Sharpshooter was good here)
Beat BUG Delver (Magus plus Rest in Peace)
Beat Elves (Double sudden demise plus canonist opening hand g2, Tutored for ethersworn+containment+mom g3)
Beat Merfolk (Outraced him with sword on crusader)
Lost to Esper Stoneblade (He hit his 1-of supreme verdicts/engineered explosives to win g1 and 3, respectively)
Beat U/R Delver (Sofi G1, got outraced g2, sofi g3)
Beat Merfolk (He mulled to 5 g1, Relic Warder his t2 Jitte g2)
I also tested against my friend on RUG Delver extensively. Really not concerned about Imperial giving up any edge vs RUG delver anymore. You make up for a lot with the threat of Magus auto-win.
Has anyone felt cataclysm be way more awkward to fit into a gameplan lately (in builds using lots of wingmares)? I'm thinking winter orb might be a more reliable additional mana denial plan to sideboard in the appropriate matchups.
Also, the addition of wingmare has actually made me want to fit in 1-2 mangaras again too, since the mana denial compounds so well.
Consider a look at MTG Salvation for more discussion of non-red D&T decks. I personally play the green splash without Wingmares, but those that use it seldom use Mangara, which would threaten to overload the deck not only with 3drops but also fragile */1 creatures. It's true that Cataclysm doesn't get along well with Wingmare though. Worb is an interesting idea despite it not getting along with Port (you need to tap two to tap their one) but if you run enough Flickerwisps to blink out Worb it could be backbreaking while giving you room to breathe. Historical note: D&T used Hokori, Dust Drinker early in its history. Its Legendary status allows it to be easily bounced before your untap phase, allowing you to untap.
If I was going to run Wingmare, I'd take to the skies with many copies of Flickerwisp, Avenger, and Wingmare, and use Moat-related cards (Magus both dodges Wingmare cost and monetary cost) in the side to confound any number of decks. Might not work, but sounds fun. Another mono-white idea is to use Restoration Angel with Wingmare, more land including Flagstones, and some Dust Bowls. See MTG Salvation for lists and discussion.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Hokori might be interesting as a sb card the red splash build as it can be tutored for. I imagine that vial on 4 plus hokori / karakas would be a nightmare for miracles.
I repeated top 8 this weekend at the "big" Legacy Side Event of GP Madrid (45 players). I played the same list I posted last week. I made 5-1-0, winning the swiss with 16 points. Then we split prices at the top 8.
In swiss rounds I played against:
Round 1: BUG Tezzeret (1-0)
Round 2: Lands (2-0)
Round 3: Bant Wizards (2-1-0)
Round 4: Grixis Delver (3-1-0)
Round 5: Grixis Landstill (4-1-0)
Round 6: UWR Miracles (5-1-0)
Thanks for the reports, Koke_MTG! Tres preguntas (mas o menos):
Can you talk about your sideboard choices?
Have 3 Phyrexian Revoker been good?
Are you using 62 cards, and if yes, how is that working for you? If not, what cards are wrong in the list?
First of all, the sideboard. I think if the format do not change a lot, the configuration with 2 x Council's Judgment and 2 x Cataclysm is the most optimal.
I do not use Cataclysm a lot, usually to play against Miracles, MUD, Lands and Cloudpost but it is a high-impact card that let us change the state of the game against those control decks. Council's Judgment is the catch-all we need against Umezawa's Jitte, TNN, planeswalkers... It's essential because we do not have removal apart from main StP.
I would like to run more than a singleton of Pithing Needle, specially with only 3 Revokers main and with Lands as one of the best archetypes in the format, but I do not find room for a second Needle.
Chalice of the Void is essential against a lot of decks allowing us to reduce opponents' card advantage cutting cantrips. So the idea is that when opponents play DTT they do not have the same advantage because they have lost a lot of card advantage before. I have played CotV in 2 stages: TC era and DTT era. I think it is the best option to reduce the impact of those cards and equalize blue decks' card advantage.
In addition, CotV makes opponents have to meditate much the target of CJ, Grudge, Wear, Decay or whatever, and there are multiple times that they decide destroy CotV, allowing us to play with Vial or a dangerous equipment in play.
With this artifact we can play a bit more relaxed the Elves matchup even playing only 3 Revokers main like my case. Also Delver matchup with a lot of taxing effects + CotV is even more comfortable and the Miracles matchup is fantastic with it in play. I know that your concern is that we can cut 12 main cards but I think the card rent by itself now. It is one of the best cards of the format in my opinion.
I think I do not have to explain Canonist's slots. Bombs are for Pyromancer and Mentor tokens, Entreat tokens, EtW tokens, Elves, flipped Delvers... It is a pretty good and versatile removal. I play it in the mirror too instead of Cataclysm because I think Cataclysm is often pretty bad in the mirror. And finally with RiP I want to annul Tarmogoyf, DRS, Loam decks, Reanimator decks... and specially Punishing Fire. I often run a pair against Grixis Delver, Grixis Control or Mentorblade because I want to cut delve cards (DTT specially), Cabal Therapy, Snapcaster Mages...
I always have played the full set of Revokers (I have to recognize that without the full set I felt like going naked) but when I bet for Wingmares two months ago, I felt that Revokers were less necessary because there were less Storm, Elves and DRS decks in general. Sneak & Show has disappeared too, and Lands, Omnitell and Infect became popular. I thought that if I bet for Wingmares I should do it with the full set, playing 8 Thalias and assuming the risk against -X/-X sweepers. I started playing only 2 Wingmares but in some situations I thought that I would win actual game taxing more my opponent so I continued running 3 until I bet for the playset. It is incredible make opponents to pay 3 mana for the best card of the format. They lose the tempo of the game.
I am using 62 cards. Lately I have this mania as footballers when they enter the fieldBut right now I am extremely happy with this list and do not want to change it.
I could talk about my sideboard plans in a specific matchup if you want.
Sorry for language errors one more time!
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