[Deck] U/G Infect

[RhoxWarMonk]

I almost feeling splashing white in the SB is becoming mandatory. Some people are starting to run cards like Peacekeeper, which is absolutely killer against me...

[Whitefaces]

I almost feeling splashing white in the SB is becoming mandatory. Some people are starting to run cards like Peacekeeper, which is absolutely killer against me...

I wouldn't stretch as far as mandatory, there are options in U/G like Dismember, Piracy Charm, Pongify and bounce spells.

I don't see many decks playing Peacekeeper though, maybe it's just your meta?

[RhoxWarMonk]

I wouldn't stretch as far as mandatory, there are options in U/G like Dismember, Piracy Charm, Pongify and bounce spells.

I don't see many decks playing Peacekeeper though, maybe it's just your meta?

I don't really disagree, however, splashing white for RIP and StP also gives the added benefit of being useful against decks like Lands, Reanimator, and so forth...

I've tried Dismember, Piracy Charm, even really narrow cards like Gut Shot, not a big fan of any of them. For starters, its' very hard to dedicate more than one SB slot to any of these cards IMO, so I find it tough to put in multiple copies. StP is so versatile, I can easily justify 2 slots, the actual slot I hate using in my SB is the one I need to dedicate to Savannah. No real choice though if you want to splash white, but I really don't like using a SB slot on a land that doesn't <do> anything (apart from allow me to cast a few spells).

As for peacekeeper specifically, no doubt it's a meta call against people who play Infect. If Infect isn't popular in your area, you likely won't see many miracles players devote 2 SB slots for specifically that matchup, so again, you're likely right :)

How are people finding Wasteland? I run a singleton (with a crop rotation) and it's been decent at times but there's also MANY times I wish it would give me colored mana (any color). I'm really on the fence if it's worth playing the 1 of, or if it's better served as something like a Pendlehaven instead. Thoughts?

[Lou Key]

I don't really disagree, however, splashing white for RIP and StP also gives the added benefit of being useful against decks like Lands, Reanimator, and so forth...

I've tried Dismember, Piracy Charm, even really narrow cards like Gut Shot, not a big fan of any of them. For starters, its' very hard to dedicate more than one SB slot to any of these cards IMO, so I find it tough to put in multiple copies. StP is so versatile, I can easily justify 2 slots, the actual slot I hate using in my SB is the one I need to dedicate to Savannah. No real choice though if you want to splash white, but I really don't like using a SB slot on a land that doesn't <do> anything (apart from allow me to cast a few spells).

As for peacekeeper specifically, no doubt it's a meta call against people who play Infect. If Infect isn't popular in your area, you likely won't see many miracles players devote 2 SB slots for specifically that matchup, so again, you're likely right :)

How are people finding Wasteland? I run a singleton (with a crop rotation) and it's been decent at times but there's also MANY times I wish it would give me colored mana (any color). I'm really on the fence if it's worth playing the 1 of, or if it's better served as something like a Pendlehaven instead. Thoughts?

I play 1 Wasteland in my maindeck and rarely I found it so useless to cut it at all.

Especially since the rise of Lands around and against Omnitell that has Boseiju in the sideboard ever (an uncounterable S&T is almost ever GG against us, unless we have an active Grip in hand)...

[Svyelunite]

If you're feeling ballsy you can cut the basic forest for the Savannah and not run it SB. That saves the slot. Makes you a no outer to Blood Moon, but that card doesn't see as much play lately. Don't worry about Wasteland, most people save them to fight your Inkmoths anyway, so they won't color screw you.

I personally love the white splash for StP and RiP. It is a huge weapon against the other creature decks (especially BUG delver variants) and makes Lands much more manageable. I've upped my SB to 3 StP now just because nothing is more efficient and I almost always want to draw 1-2.

[RhoxWarMonk]

If you're feeling ballsy you can cut the basic forest for the Savannah and not run it SB. That saves the slot. Makes you a no outer to Blood Moon, but that card doesn't see as much play lately. Don't worry about Wasteland, most people save them to fight your Inkmoths anyway, so they won't color screw you.

I personally love the white splash for StP and RiP. It is a huge weapon against the other creature decks (especially BUG delver variants) and makes Lands much more manageable. I've upped my SB to 3 StP now just because nothing is more efficient and I almost always want to draw 1-2.

Hmm this isn't a bad suggestion, thank you. :) I am definitely worried about Blood moon, because there's literally no way to win once it resolves but I also find in my current setup, I have to go dig for the basic forest if I even suspect a blood moon could come down, which can end up leading to play errors, not having the right colored mana, etc. It's too late once the blood moon hits the table, unless I have a fetch already in play of course. Drawing the singleton forest once it already comes down is very unlikely....

I will give this a try and see how it turns out!

[battousai555]

Has anyone played much against Imperial Taxes or D&T w/ 3-4 Wingmares? I have been practicing against my friend's more traditional list and the match-up seems a bit favorable, but both of those versions seem like they'd be way more of a pain. I played my first tourney at my LGS and did well with the white splash, but didn't get to see any of the D&T decks that I know were there (one of my opponents was nice enough to tell me) and what was in them. I think upping the STP count to 3 like Zachary K. (Svyelunite) said he just did would be great in this store's meta because I saw a TON of fair decks, but I was wondering if anyone had any general strategy advice in case I encounter either of the aforementioned D&Ts. Thanks in advance!

Edit: grammar

[Neffy]

Has anyone played much against Imperial Taxes or D&T w/ 3-4 Wingmares? I have been practicing against my friend's more traditional list and the match-up seems a bit favorable, but both of those versions seem like they'd be way more of a pain. I played my first tourney at my LGS and did well with the white splash, but didn't get to see any of the D&T decks that I know were there (one of my opponents was nice enough to tell me) and what was in them. I think upping the STP count to 3 like Zachary K. (Svyelunite) said he just did would be great in this store's meta because I saw a TON of fair decks, but I was wondering if anyone had any general strategy advice in case I encounter either of the aforementioned D&Ts. Thanks in advance!

Edit: grammar

I frequently face regular DT, however have only met the mares once. The two STPs shine in this matchup, saving them for an early Thalia. Roughly said you only care about two cards in the deck; STP and Thalia. Even Canonists arent that bad. Wastelands can be annoying too, but especially after board, where you (if splashing white) side in savannah and karakas to cast your white goodies, you should have enough mana to not get mana screwed by them.. mostly.

Last thursday I faced that deck and I drew almost only fetchlands. My board was lands only, 1 crop rotation and become immense in board vs his Thalia, mother, SOFAI, Batterskull, some other dude and STP in hand. I EOT find crop rotation hoping to draw a vines to protech against STP, i however draw berserk. He wastelanded me EOT, but forgot his Thalia and now could not cast his STP with his one plains open. I swing for 14 trample infect.
Bad play from him and lucky for me, but we have some nice advantages against DT. Especially when you draw 3 cards a turn with your Sylvan Library B)

[Cartesian]

I frequently face regular DT, however have only met the mares once. The two STPs shine in this matchup, saving them for an early Thalia. Roughly said you only care about two cards in the deck; STP and Thalia. Even Canonists arent that bad. Wastelands can be annoying too, but especially after board, where you (if splashing white) side in savannah and karakas to cast your white goodies, you should have enough mana to not get mana screwed by them.. mostly.

Last thursday I faced that deck and I drew almost only fetchlands. My board was lands only, 1 crop rotation and become immense in board vs his Thalia, mother, SOFAI, Batterskull, some other dude and STP in hand. I EOT find crop rotation hoping to draw a vines to protech against STP, i however draw berserk. He wastelanded me EOT, but forgot his Thalia and now could not cast his STP with his one plains open. I swing for 14 trample infect.
Bad play from him and lucky for me, but we have some nice advantages against DT. Especially when you draw 3 cards a turn with your Sylvan Library B)

I would say we care about StP and Jitte. Thaila is not a huge concern IMO. In fact, Thalia can often work to our advantage, simply because it makes StP harder to cast, exactly as in your example.

[Hopo]

I would say we care about StP and Jitte. Thaila is not a huge concern IMO. In fact, Thalia can often work to our advantage, simply because it makes StP harder to cast, exactly as in your example.

I absolutely agree with above. Jitte, Stp and Wasteland are their best bets. After sideboarding also Ethersworn Canonist. Thalia doesn't shut you down and you usually need just one pump spell to kill and just like Cartasian said, it many times helps us more than them. An anecdote from yesterday: I could cast double Invigorate for the kill through Thalia while opponent was sitting on one open mana and a StP in hand. Thalia is mostly annoying when you'd want to cast Krosan Grip.

I played a local 44 player tournament yesterday getting to top 8 just to be humiliated by RG lands in quarterfinals - a nightmare matchup, by the way.

Round 1: Burn 1-2
Round 2: Death and Taxes 2-0
Round 3: Death and Taxes 2-0
Round 4: UR Painter 2-0
Round 5: Grixis control 2-0
Round 6: Elves ID after some discussions while 1-1
Quarterfinals: RG lands 0-2

I usually have no issues with Burn but yesterday all went to Hell. Death and Taxes looks more difficult on paper than it usually is in practice. The painter deck did largely nothing but chump blocked with Welders in two games. Grixis died in g1 to a fast combo and g2 I had everything I needed, including a perfectly setup Piracy Charm for Baleful Strix into lethal Nexus attack.

The lands deck is really, really difficult. It has so many relevant cards and you have to respect the token kill all the time. This might get better with the RiP-splash but not willing to walk that path just for this matchup. Maybe later. My SB was a bit soft for this yesterday.

And here's the list. Most of the time I sided out counters for better counters or more relevant cards. I used all the cards from my sideboard which made my SB relevant and myself proud.

4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wasteland
1 Pendelhaven
1 Forest
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Brainstorm
4 Invigorate
3 Daze
3 Force of Will
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Crop Rotation
2 Berserk
2 Spell Pierce
2 Become Immense
1 Flusterstorm

Sideboard
2 Krosan Grip
2 Hydroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
1 Piracy Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Echoing Truth
1 Bojuka Bog

[Stuuch]

Grixis died in g1 to a fast combo and g2 I had everything I needed, including a perfectly setup Piracy Charm for Baleful Strix into lethal Nexus attack.

This was actually in g3 but anyways you got me with that chram. :)

[Hopo]

Grixis died in g1 to a fast combo and g2 I had everything I needed, including a perfectly setup Piracy Charm for Baleful Strix into lethal Nexus attack.

This was actually in g3 but anyways you got me with that chram. :)

Thanks for the fix! :)
Didn't have my notes so I had to write based on my memory. I have zero recollection of the game I lost.

[rlesko]

Been lurking on these forums for a while, and I played a 4 preordain list on Friday and it felt really nice (first time ever playing infect). The filtering felt really nice to be able to dig for specific types of cards (mainly looking for permission, pump spells, or threats). I am curious about the white splash though, the primary card being swords to plowshares, what type of MU are we looking for a card like that? Seems like the only time we would want that is in the fair MU, which seems favorable already.

[Neffy]

Been lurking on these forums for a while, and I played a 4 preordain list on Friday and it felt really nice (first time ever playing infect). The filtering felt really nice to be able to dig for specific types of cards (mainly looking for permission, pump spells, or threats). I am curious about the white splash though, the primary card being swords to plowshares, what type of MU are we looking for a card like that? Seems like the only time we would want that is in the fair MU, which seems favorable already.

It goes in against almost every deck relying on creatures to win. Well RUG, Grixis and 4c delver can be nasty because of bolts, forked bolts, quick delvers and timely counters and therefore might not be so favorable after all. especially grixis has been a nuissance lately for me. Cabals and YP tokens to block is dangerous.

Im curious as to how many of you run pithing needle in the board (1-2)? I dont, but if i could find the room I would. I've experienced a lot of mana screw lately due to wastelands (not necessarily wasting my inkmoths) and Im sick of it. Im playing 20 lands btw. Also its a sweet answer to Jitte also.

[Hopo]

Im curious as to how many of you run pithing needle in the board (1-2)? I dont, but if i could find the room I would. I've experienced a lot of mana screw lately due to wastelands (not necessarily wasting my inkmoths) and Im sick of it. Im playing 20 lands btw. Also its a sweet answer to Jitte also.

Needle and Krosan grip are my most sided cards, no question. It's A-class by being cheap, colorless and answering plenty of problem cards.

[Svyelunite]

Took down an IQ Sunday with the following:
4x Glistener, Agent, Hierarch
3x FoW
3x Daze
Flusterstorm
Spell Pierce
Stifle
4x BS
2x Ponder
2x Gitaxian Probe
Dig through Time
4x Invigorate
3x Vines of Vastwood
2x Berserk
Become Immense
Crop Rotation
4x Trop
Savannah
Pendelhaven
Wasteland
4x Inkmoth
8x Green Fetchlands

SB:
2x K Grip
2x RiP
3x StP
Absolute Law
2x Pithing Needle
Flusterstorm
FoW
Teferi's Response
Vines of Vastwood
Grafdigger's Cage

Like I said earlier, there is so little Blood Moon being played, I dropped the MD forest to free up a slot in the SB and just ran the Savannah main. The meta was light on combo but had plenty of Grixis Delver/Control (where the RiP and extra Vines really shines). Before anyone asks, no I didn't get to blow anyone out with Teferi's Response this time :( But that's not for lack of trying!

Observations: The white splash seems like it would weaken you to Lands because of having another dual and stricter color requirements, but RiP is so good against them that it's worth it. Also, I don't think I'm ever going below 2 Pithing Needle in my board, that card has 101 uses and I never regret having them. Absolute Law is an absolute beating against the Grixis decks which rely on L Bolt and Forked Bolt as removal. Pyromancer not being able to block (or attack near as well) is a big benefit also. Maneuver the early game to draw out the counters and slam the Absolute Law to give yourself a much easier time closing the game out.

For the people asking about the matchup vs. DnT, in my experience this is a pretty easy win most of the time. They don't have many answers to Blighted Agent and basically can't stop your pump spells. Obviously a nutty draw for them on the play will get you, but that gets most decks in Legacy so don't sweat it. After board, Pithing Needle (if you run them), K grip, and the Plows make it even easier. Oh also, Teferi's Response, talk about a card that was specifically designed to beat DnT, wowza.

[RhoxWarMonk]

Im curious as to how many of you run pithing needle in the board (1-2)? I dont, but if i could find the room I would. I've experienced a lot of mana screw lately due to wastelands (not necessarily wasting my inkmoths) and Im sick of it. Im playing 20 lands btw. Also its a sweet answer to Jitte also.

I'm currently running 1 because of how good it is but it's certainly hard to find room in the SB for additional slots. I can't justify dropping below 1, it does too much against too many decks. Jace, Liliana, Wasteland, Jitte are just some of the cards that I've named with the needle that's helped me win games, games I definitely would not have won without it in play.

I would LOVE to bump it up to 2x but I find the SB so difficult to find space. Is anyone still playing with Hydroblast? I used to run 2, now I run 1 and I'm wondering if I should cut them completely.... they're great against pyroblasts (and blood moons) but otherwise, I don't find them to be overly useful. Thoughts?

[rlesko]

Just my playstyle- but I hate losing to cards like Blood Moon. Probably not the most versatile sb card but one that I wouldn't feel good leaving home without.

[Jesture]

Hydroblast feels less strong now that we're out of the TC meta. There was a time where players would main deck Pyroblasts, and Hydroblast would really shine there as a 1mana hard counterspell.

These days it's mostly a meta call, though I've personally felt the slots to be better off dedicated to stronger/more flexible cards.

[poxy14]

Im curious as to how many of you run pithing needle in the board (1-2)? I dont, but if i could find the room I would. I've experienced a lot of mana screw lately due to wastelands (not necessarily wasting my inkmoths) and Im sick of it. Im playing 20 lands btw. Also its a sweet answer to Jitte also.

im running 2, i always carry them even on RUGDelver as it was so helpful in a lot of ways. i also observe enemy fetches on game 1 and with the help of probes too, u can screw their fetches with needles. i won several games just by it : )