[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[.dk]

I was thinking about using mentor in a transformation board into stoneblade.

Something like
4x stoneforge
1x skull
1x jitte
3x mentor
1-2x land
3-4 open slots for removal/spells

The only thing i dont like is how expensive mentor is, so something like tnn where the cost is paid only once seems better

Didn't see this post until a little later... One thing I don't like about mentor in this deck is that it needs a stream of cards to really shine. And unfortunately, this deck is like the king of card disadvantage. If you're playing Mentor, you want to try some Dig Through Times or something like that to maintain cards in hand to trigger.

[Richard Cheese]

Doomsday is good, but people are now very much aware of it, and killing yourself is an ever-present threat when forced to just go for it. You can drop the third LED for another bounce / spare SB slot, but it does limit some of the storm piles. I’ve found the Sheldock plan to be very weak against most of the field, being painfully slow.

Painter has been good for me in the past with Enlightened Tutor for both sides of it, and a mini-toobox of Defence Grid, etc. That said, I’m still seeing a lot of Emrakul which makes life difficult / impossible.

Has anyone had any success with a man-plan based around Mentor ?

Madman did back on page 111, although he was also splashing red for Young Peezy.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post884788

I'm wondering if you could side into some kind of aggro-control shell with Mentor and Ashiok, maybe with TNN? Ashiok is like a reusable Reanimate that's surprisingly hard to get rid of since it goes to 5 loyalty immediately. I'm just not sure the deck can handle siding into a ton of 3-drops though.

[Karhumies]

Has anybody been experimenting with a transformational list into Rest in Peace / Leyline of the Void + Helm of Awakening lately? I used that in a Reanimator SB years ago before RiP printing.

+ Grave hate is actually useful and not dead against some Legacy decks, compare with Painter-Stone
+ Not hit by Wasteland like Shelldock Isle
+ Combo can be divided over multiple turns, compare with Doomsday combo
+ Opponent should be unlikely to sb in enchantment + artifact hate after g1
+ Also works through N opposing life
+ The deck already has filtering and LDV/tutors for digging synergy
+ The deck already has fast mana sources for Helm play + activation synergy
+ The look on the opponent's face when they brought in gy hate and you play t2 RiP ;)

- Mana intensive, compare to Doomsday combo
- Lack of explosiveness, compare with YOLO and t1 potential. Especially bad vs fast unfair decks.
- Takes almost all 15 sb slots
- How to decide g3 strategy? same problem with all transitional sbs.
- Pithing Needle / Phyrexian Revoker / Meddling Mage still hits: Helm instead of Griselbrand.

[cjrand]

Hey Source!

I intend on playing Tin Fins in a month in Indianapolis using the following list:

4 Underground Sea
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island

3 Griselbrand
2 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Entomb
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lotus Petal
4 Shallow Grave
4 Brainstorm
1 Reanimate
2 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
1 Chrome Mox

SB

2 Pithing Needle
2 Deathmark
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
2 Massacre
2 Defense Grid
3 Chain of Vapor

Thanks!

TTX

http://s1.dmcdn.net/MQ7wt/1280x720-ffY.jpg

Hi,

I'd probably get rid of both copies of duress, the third Griselbrand, and the second Children of Korlis. As the deck thrives on library manipulation and cheap cantripping, I would without a doubt add fill out your ponders. If your dead set against cards like silence, I would try and add maybe 1/1 lim-dul's vault and intuition. In my experience though, silence is such an effective card that I have never been without 2 in my 75! If you don't take all this advice, at the very least swap out the duresses for ponders (immediately! like right now! I don't care if you're on the toilet!).

Anyways, gl and hf!

PS! I just now looked at your mana base. I would also swap out an underground sea for a tundra. I just realized that your only white mana sources were from lotus petals. You end up hardcasting children more often than you think!

[Kathal]

Hi,

I'd probably get rid of both copies of duress, the third Griselbrand, and the second Children of Korlis. As the deck thrives on library manipulation and cheap cantripping, I would without a doubt add fill out your ponders. If your dead set against cards like silence, I would try and add maybe 1/1 lim-dul's vault and intuition. In my experience though, silence is such an effective card that I have never been without 2 in my 75! If you don't take all this advice, at the very least swap out the duresses for ponders (immediately! like right now! I don't care if you're on the toilet!).

Anyways, gl and hf!

PS! I just now looked at your mana base. I would also swap out an underground sea for a tundra. I just realized that your only white mana sources were from lotus petals. You end up hardcasting children more often than you think!

Instead of the Tundra, he should play a Scrubland, since B is more important than U in this deck (strange to say this).

Intuition looks interesting, however, I think, that LDV is better than Intuition, since it is one cheaper and has the same result as Intuition (grabbing the last piece of the combo). However, you can make with LDV some DD like piles, which allows you to combo of using them (did it a bunch of times, however, you need to know exactly how to build piles and how to build piles with LDV).

Greetings,
Kathal

[phazonmutant]

Instead of the Tundra, he should play a Scrubland, since B is more important than U in this deck (strange to say this).

Intuition looks interesting, however, I think, that LDV is better than Intuition, since it is one cheaper and has the same result as Intuition (grabbing the last piece of the combo). However, you can make with LDV some DD like piles, which allows you to combo of using them (did it a bunch of times, however, you need to know exactly how to build piles and how to build piles with LDV).

Greetings,
Kathal

Agreed with Kathal, in the traditional combo build, LDV is better. I used to play a lot of Intuition - as a two of, then a split with LDV.

Didn't see this post until a little later... One thing I don't like about mentor in this deck is that it needs a stream of cards to really shine. And unfortunately, this deck is like the king of card disadvantage. If you're playing Mentor, you want to try some Dig Through Times or something like that to maintain cards in hand to trigger.

I've played a couple of Digs main. The first is great, but the second one can be very bad - because it's a A+B combo, often a number of cards in your hand are dead, so can't be cast to fuel delve. However, a second postboard was very good in the grindy matchups.

I like this Mentor idea! Goryo's Vengeance sucks anyway, how about just cutting it for some Mentors and swapping in Daze?

[TTX]

Whoops, correction later

[TTX]

Hi,

I'd probably get rid of both copies of duress, the third Griselbrand, and the second Children of Korlis. As the deck thrives on library manipulation and cheap cantripping, I would without a doubt add fill out your ponders. If your dead set against cards like silence, I would try and add maybe 1/1 lim-dul's vault and intuition. In my experience though, silence is such an effective card that I have never been without 2 in my 75! If you don't take all this advice, at the very least swap out the duresses for ponders (immediately! like right now! I don't care if you're on the toilet!).

Anyways, gl and hf!

PS! I just now looked at your mana base. I would also swap out an underground sea for a tundra. I just realized that your only white mana sources were from lotus petals. You end up hardcasting children more often than you think!

3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island

2 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Entomb
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lotus Petal
4 Shallow Grave
4 Brainstorm
1 Reanimate
2 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Chrome Mox

SB

2 Pithing Needle
2 Disfigure
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
3 Massacre
2 Defense Grid
2 Chain of Vapor

Thanks for all of the critiques, I have been enjoying the reactive sideboard more so than the Doomsday build because I don't think I will play consistently at a large tournament setting with Doomsday (too much thinking sometimes, and I have little to no experience with it). Also, Death and Taxes I think is the most difficult match up, so I upped the Massacre count over Chain of Vapor.
I prefer to have the Tendrils in the deck, it comes up pretty frequently as the only reasonable kill condition.
I'm still debating Silence as a main deck or sideboard card, but am unsure.
As far as Ponder count is concerned, I just don't think it's that good in this deck, but I really can't think of something else to cut. Thoughtseize is fantastic.

[Kathal]

Some things you could do:

Kick a Goryo's (worst reanimation spell) and a LDV for the 2 Ponders, however, I like LDV more than Ponder in this deck (basically a hardtutor for what we need).

However, something you could try (and several people already did) is 2 Dazes instead of 2 Seize. Daze is better in the early game, Seize gets better the longer the game is.

Also, I would replace 1 Mire with a Strand, since you kinda want 5 ways to grab that basic Island (also, it can grab any other land).

Greetings,
Kathal

[Acclimation]

http://i.imgur.com/HLwHIIl.jpg

Ya boiiiiii let's get back on the Onion Burst.


Remember, with a reactive sideboard, when all else fails:
http://i.imgur.com/AKlsTxK.jpg


As a sidenote, I do love playing with the Doomsday sideboard, but as I've observed from my FNM meta, there's 2 burn decks, an ANT deck, and then I've seen 1 stoneblade, 1 junk and taxes, a dredge, and slivers, all of which aren't the easiest match up with Doomsday, but not too bad with a few changed slots in our board.

[Kathal]

Nice deck, however, if this a Summer or Revised DR (I can't see it on the picture). If this is a Revised one, get another one from Mirage (by far the best artwork). And I only dislike that Emmi (and I know, how expensive a non-promo foil is).

Your meta looks interesting, it looks really soft to Tin Fins, besides D&T and Stoneblade, in which DD is better. But as you said, just to have a DD SB for those 2 match-ups isn't right.

Greetings,
Kathal

[llamaza]

I play with a small crowd at FNM (around 12-15 players), the meta is very very fair with Death & Taxes x2, Maverick, Shardless BUG, Grixis Control being among the top decks.

Would you play Tin Fins in such a meta and what version would work best?

[Acclimation]

Nice deck, however, if this a Summer or Revised DR (I can't see it on the picture). If this is a Revised one, get another one from Mirage (by far the best artwork). And I only dislike that Emmi (and I know, how expensive a non-promo foil is).

Your meta looks interesting, it looks really soft to Tin Fins, besides D&T and Stoneblade, in which DD is better. But as you said, just to have a DD SB for those 2 match-ups isn't right.

Greetings,
Kathal

A closer look at my rituals.
http://i.imgur.com/G4Xwxa4.jpg

I actually have 3 more of that white bordered one in my binder, but I'm kind of attached to those 4, for sentimental/superstitious purposes. That being said, I would replace them with beta rituals in a heart beat. My favorite part about the Mirage ritual is that it's the same artist who did Shallow Grave, it's like they were meant to be cast together!

The Emrakul is actually a bit beat up, I picked it up years ago in a trade at an FNM.

Ended up going 3-1 at FNM tonight, 28 people showed up for Legacy, so it was a good time.
2-0 Burn
2-1 Merfolk
1-2 Omni tell
2-0 some sort of mono black dark depths reanimator thing

Highlights include watching the burn player bring in 11(!) sideboard cards against me, and still going off on t4- he went t1 cage, and my blind therapy (called for surgical) saw 2 Mindbreak trap, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, and a Price of Progress and hard casting Griselbrand against the fish player game 3 (2 petal, 6 lands).

That being said, I found the omnitell match-up to be much harder than it used to now that Dig Through Time is a thing. Still ended up having very close games, so I'm not too upset about it.


As far as playing Tinfins in a D&T, Maverick, shardless, and Grixis meta, I would do it, but mostly because I really only own this deck and embrace the #YOLO. Fear is the mind killer, make them fear you.

[.dk]

I play with a small crowd at FNM (around 12-15 players), the meta is very very fair with Death & Taxes x2, Maverick, Shardless BUG, Grixis Control being among the top decks.

Would you play Tin Fins in such a meta and what version would work best?

D&T is harder than you think. But I don't see why you wouldn't play the deck - just pack a somewhat standard reactive board and make sure to bring your massacres.

[cjrand]

D&T is harder than you think. But I don't see why you wouldn't play the deck - just pack a somewhat standard reactive board and make sure to bring your massacres.

If 2 out of 6-7 decks are death and taxes, I would jam 4 of Not of this Worlds into your sideboard! Then you get to say, "hey! look at the legendary plains!"

[Acclimation]

If I were in a disproportionately D&T meta, I would probably have some number of Dread of Night before Not of This World, since Pithing Needle is a much better alternative to dealing with Karakas (discard takes care of any left over Swords to Plowshares).

I've always done
+2 Needle +2 Chain +2 Massacre
-2 LDV -4 Probe -1 Reanimate

as my board plan against D&T.

In soft metas, it's almost better to do reactive sideboards, since you can deal with almost any hate between the 7 discard spells we run and 2 Chain of Vapor; the other pieces are essentially more specialized tools.

[alastair]

I was thinking about using mentor in a transformation board into stoneblade.

Something like
4x stoneforge
1x skull
1x jitte
3x mentor
1-2x land
3-4 open slots for removal/spells

Having picked up TinFins again, Doomsday was a load of fun last week with a positive if somewhat mediocre result. Now everyone know's im back on TinFins/DD.... time for an alternative SB. I've never considered the man-plan to be good enough, but I guess the only way is to test it.

4x SFM
1x Jitte
1x Batterskull
3-4x Bitterblossom
3-4x Mentor

This leaves me 2-3 slots for bounce, extraction, card draw (DTT or Bob), or more threats (Stalker, TNN, Delver, etc). I'm erring towards more threats to help put the game away.

[n0ct3m89]

Keep in mind, I hadnt actually tested that, was just theorycrafting

[Richard Cheese]

Having picked up TinFins again, Doomsday was a load of fun last week with a positive if somewhat mediocre result. Now everyone know's im back on TinFins/DD.... time for an alternative SB. I've never considered the man-plan to be good enough, but I guess the only way is to test it.

4x SFM
1x Jitte
1x Batterskull
3-4x Bitterblossom
3-4x Mentor

This leaves me 2-3 slots for bounce, extraction, card draw (DTT or Bob), or more threats (Stalker, TNN, Delver, etc). I'm erring towards more threats to help put the game away.

I kinda like the idea of Delver/Bob/Mentor as the SB beats package. We run BS/Ponder and a ton of instants/sorceries already, average CMC is like 1.2, and Bob keeps the Prowess triggers flowing while getting in for beats.

[alastair]

Bob / Mentor is a good call. I just have a craving to make tombstalker !! None of the BUG lists can justify the heavy B commitment in a world of DTT. I'm fearful delver will not be good enough, we lack its support through stifle, daze, force followed up with Goyf to push through.

I may take the bob / mentor suggestion, perhaps with SFM to give bob some teeth.