Looks like it. I'm interested in the rationale for the Emperion, because it's not quite what I was thinking of for Dudes for this deck.Originally Posted by MGB
Here's my two cents worth... it's basically a speed bump / brick wall that a lot of deck's can't beat. Just be cautious about attacking with him.
Game 1 here's why:
- Delver can't beat it, unless they have a miser's vapor snag/liliana etc.
- Burn needs to launch 2-3 burn spells to kill it.
- Storm can't beat it.
- It laughs at Marit Leige and punishing fire
- Belcher has to belch it before they can belch you. LoL!
It's a slottable with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Just that it can be fetched and cast with Eye of Ugin. I initially scaled back to one copy, but quickly went back up to two emperions.
Speaking about my local meta (Northern Italy) I think this is not the most beautiful age for 12post
-omnitell is far from be out of meta: simply a lot of decks now know its presence in the meta and act consequently, so its victories are less. Maybe only with DTT's ban or something similiar we'll see it decrease.
-miracle: it was one of the reason that pushed me to play this deck. My meta was full of them, and as we all know, it's an easy matchup. But now 90% of them became miracle-mentor, and now it's more difficult.
-burn:for the new season here modern will be not play too much, and so those players are coming to legacy. Burn is the cheapest and simplest deck to begin with. Another bad matchup.....
I hope your situation is different.
An early tabernacle does a lot of work to slow the mentor velocity.
100% agreed. I played against Mentor Miracles in the finals of my Win-a-Trop two weeks ago, and was considering siding it out, like I usually do against traditional Miracles. And I'm very, very glad that I didn't. I was honestly amazed at just how much work Tabernacle actually did. My opponent still managed to take a good-sized chunk out of my life total. But Tabernacle bought me enough time to stabilize and wipe his board.
Basically, Tabernacle keeps the damage you take manageable. If they keep more tokens alive, they have that much less mana to trigger prowess, and vice versa. Tabernacle is obviously much less effective in the late game, but when your opponent is still on 5 or less mana, it really hinders their ability to just start chaining Tops and cantrips to kill you out of nowhere.
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Just split the top 4 of a SCG IQ with this list:
// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)
// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [DS] Trinisphere
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [ORI] Orbs of Warding
Matchups were Red Mud, Omni (loss), Reanimator, Post Mud, ID/w U/R delver, Quarter Finals Omni (win)
HA! I kept telling people Trickbind is The Shit.
I totally agree. I just said that miracle was a very easy matchup, now it's not true anymore. If tabernacle was in sideboard, now I'm thinking to put it mainbord (when I played the monogreen version I had it mainbord indeed....)
I agree. Never before have I kept the list exactly the same between events and Top 8'd/won/split the next event, nevermind the next 4 events.
The deck is currently on fire, and doesn't feel like it is getting unexpectedly strong hands. My current goal is to find a Monestary Mentor esque solution, but mentor decks currently don't have answers to chasm, so I may just treat them similarly to how I used to treat elves.
:EDIT: The biggest aspect of this incarnation of the deck is that it can beat Omni. In the Top 8 of this event I 2-0'd omni by putting in emrakul and trickbinding theirs, swinging in for the win.
Much much better trinisphere than wipe away..... ;)
Last edited by Morden; 09-27-2015 at 05:41 PM.
It's still an easy matchup, just not a bye anymore. Now it's only maybe 80/20 instead of 95/5. You actually have to play now.
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Hey BoozeCube, do you still play a monogreen list? If so, have you ever played with Beast Within? I'm looking for a catch-all that isn't super expensive and this seems to foot the bill. You can also make a 3/3 for yourself and surprise block against things like death and taxes, etc. I'm curious what your list is looking like these days. I'm semi-tempted to move over to U/G just because trickbind sounds like a blast to play with, but part of me just doesn't want to give up on mono-green as it just beats so many decks.
I have the same big doubt drude: blue or green?
Green build was my first love, it's difficult to stop thinking of it :D It's solid, cards like Natural order or eureka are only side plan (eureka, by the way, is HUGE with 2x ugin in the deck). But you have less control on the game, and you miss the great "combo" brainstorm+fetch, that can fix a bad hand easily. Ancient stirrings is good, specially in a build like Booze's one, but in a deck with a lot of green cards (titans, eureka, crop, explore.....) you use it only as a land-draw; I'd like something better......
I don't know :(
I had a brief stint when I was playing UG Eureka. Eureka is very powerful, my only issue with it is sometimes you randomly loose as a result.
And on a side note...Dig Through Time is outta here Friday. I guess its time to re-tool again. :-)
Indeed. Black vise back. I love that.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2015-09-28
And here I was just finally comfortable with hugely hating on the card.
Glad to see omni get completely D-listed as an archetype though.
Shame though. I really feared no deck in the current meta with my current build. See my Top finishes in huge tournaments for the last 5 consecutive events.
Yep. Trickbind seems intriguing, but I'm hopelessly addicted to the raw power of monogreen with Ancient Stirrings. I've never tried Beast Within in Legacy, although I used to play with it extensively in Modern and Standard. I'm not a huge fan of it in my Post builds for a couple of reasons:
- Tempo-wise, you're frequently going to have access to All Is Dust as a catch-all just as quickly as BW, as both require 3 land drops. Ugin is only a hair slower. I prefer these two because they have so much greater impact.
- It's green, so you can't find it with Ancient Stirrings. Not a dealbreaker by any means, but it's less easy to find when you need it.
- Seeing a 3/3 across the table isn't much more appealing than the majority of enemy creatures. The creatures you most need to hit are either (a) easily answered with Maze or Karakas (Griselbrand, Goyf), (b) can't be targeted anyway (TNN, Progenitus, Emrakul), or (c) have probably already gotten significant value (SFM, Pyromancer, Mentor, Craterhoof). The only real problem creatures that BW hits better than All Is Dust are Phyrexian Revoker, Painter, Magus of the Moon, and Tidespout Tyrant (on the draw).
- Having a surprise blocker can be good, but it's rarely more effective than neutralizing their creature with Maze of Ith. Except for surprising a Pyromancer, the token will just be a chump blocker against most significant creatures.
- Planeswalkers are already relatively easy to deal with between Dust, Ugin, and Pithing Needle.
- The only real problem lands in the format for us are Wasteland and Port. BW does nothing vs Wasteland. Candelabra and Needle already fight Port. Moreover, giving a 3/3 to the main decks that play Port seems unwise. Goblins and D&T have you on the defensive, so the token shortens your clock when that's already a factor. And one of the few advances vs Lands is that they don't have a real clock other than Depths. If you can neutralize Wasteland and Depths, you can grind them out. Punishing Fire isn't going to get there; giving them a 3/3 might.
- Postboard, K-Grip is infinitely superior for answering artifacts and enchantments.
Anyway, that's more or less why I don't play Beast Within. My current build is basically the same, but with new Ulamog replacing old Ulamog. I'm hoping that I'll be able to cut a Sphere/Trini/Trap if banning DTT diminishes Omni's presence in the meta. I miss being able to board down to 60 in g2/3.
Main Deck (61)
Creatures (4)
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (28)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands (29)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
8 Forest
Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
4 Mindbreak Trap
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I'd put eureka only in monogreen version, with blue I think s&t is faster and easier to cast (U vs GG, not a big problem but sometimes it can make the difference). Also chris's list, with UGW, is very attractive.....so many options with this deck, love it :D
Hey fellow 12posters. I've been looking for a better creature to natural order away, right now I'm playing dryad arbor and satyr wayfinder but I feel like there's got to be a better option out there. The only build I saw with natural order in it played 3 oracle of mul daya, but I'm not a huge fan of that since you want to be casting natural order on turn 4, not 5. So something with a CMC less than 4. I've thought of courser of kruphix but the double green is tough for t3 because you want to be playing your posts first usually. I've also thought of Veteran Explorer, but I don't think I play enough basics for that to be viable and there's not much space. Here's my current list, for reference:
Creatures [9]
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Primeval Titan
Instants [6]
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moments Peace
Sorceries [10]
4 Explore
2 Natural Order
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Ancient Stirrings
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts [7]
3 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands [27]
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cloudpost
2 Forest
3 Savannah
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sacred Ground
2 Rest in Peace
1 Glacial Chasm
Not a huge fan of Moment's peace because pretty much every creature deck plays deathrite shaman. I also usually board in rest in peace against most creatures decks because they're typically playing tarmogoyf, so one fog and done just isn't good enough. Maybe swords to plowshares is what I'm looking for. I've tried wrath of god in the past, but it clashes with my natural order plan so I'm not playing it anymore.
I was doing quite well with the deck, but lately I've had trouble beating BUG delver and infect. I feel like the infect matchup is hopeless. I could use some tips for ways to win the BUG delver matchup. They have just the right amount of disruption backed up by pressure to run me over. I also don't have a candle, but when I borrowed it from a friend it didn't impress me much. You have to have cloudposts in play or its not worthwhile, and when you do you're already likely winning and can cast eldrazi anyway. How much faster does it make the deck? I'm leaning towards either buying tropical islands and switching to the U/G version or just buying a couple of eurekas and trying those out in my current build. Is the U/G version objectively better than the G/W or mono green builds?
The creature you are looking for is Sylvan Caryatid.
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