Hei Guys
Sadly i can't go to the Ovinogeddon.
But i will probably play 12 Post in MKM Series Prague:)
here's my list at the moment:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Explore
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Oblivion Stone
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
I will probably cut 2 Cards in the Sb for 2 Krosan grips:)
I still continue to have consistency issues with the BANT build of 12 post. I don't think I've every got top locked as much as I did last night. With the removal of dig through time and more important Omnitell, I'm thinking heading back to straight UG, to improve consistency.
Here was this weeks Tuesday "metagame". As you can see, I use that term loosely.
Round 1: Beat BUG delver.
Round 2: Lost to turn 1 tendrils game 1. Board my anti combo cards, loose turn 1 of game 2 to goblin charbelcher. No one expects the Spanish inquisiton! Stare at the meddling mage in my hand and 1 land in play as I'm getting belched.
Round 3: Lost against Jund NicFit / Scapeshift. Normally this is one of the easiest matches ever. Both games I mulliganed and then got top locked and proceed to just draw lands and basically 0 threats.
Oh well lol.
I suggest you to try more games......round 2 you lost on turn 1, what UG build can do? Only trickbind, and not on turn 1. With belcher you can use chasm as answer, but in fact I would have sided chasm out, I don't know, it's sure that no one expects belcher as sideplan to storm.(chasm is good only to empty the warrens in a "normal" match up against storm).
Round 3 maybe it was only bad luck.....ask yourself this "what would have changed with UG build?". C'mon, let's keep the terminus-post alive! :D
@Drixx
oh nice just post your List.
On Friday i play the trial with the List.
If you see a good looking guy that is playing mono G twelve Post then it's me:P
i think the Deck have good chances.
ok i look forward for watching your playing , i'll try to get for trial too ;) my ug list
Emrakul 1
Kozilek 1
Primeval titan 4
Brainstorm 4
Crop rotation 3
Flusterstorm 3
Repeal 2
Trickbind 3
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 1
Show and Tell 3
Candelabra of Tawnos 2
Expedition Map 3
Engineered Explosives 1
Sensei's Divining Top 4
Forest 1
Island 1
Bojuka bog 1
Cavern of Souls 1
Eye of Ugin 1
Glacial Chasm 1
Cloudpost 4
Glimmerpost 4
Karakas 1
Misty Rainforest 4
Tropical Island 4
Vesuva 2
SB:
Dismember 2
Blue elem. Blast 2
Force of will 2
Krosan Grip 3
Pithing Needle 2
Ugin, te spirit Dragon 1
Relic of Progenitus 2
Trinisphere 1
usually i have score like 3:1 but the worst match i have is with infect like 2:6
i changed gut shots for dismember because is better in many matchups now Kotr in agro loam ,still killing infect guy with one pump on it and can kill random creatures like metal worker or mentor but it's not good idea to side it against mentormiracles i think .. fluster in main really perfect for me first thing was protect my crop rotation with fluster but anyway is very usefull ..
I would probably run this list:
Main Deck (61)
Creatures (4)
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (28)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands (29)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
8 Forest
Sideboard (14)
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
I've been running a 61/14 configuration for a long time, but I changed it to 61/15 for the past few months, just straight-up adding a Trinisphere to combat the OmniTell menace (tech I got from your Lille list, btw). With DTT banned, I think it's probably safe to go back to 14 in the board, cutting an anti-combo card. The question I'm still struggling with, however, is what to cut?
I've decided to cut one Trap from my board for a couple of reasons:
(a) The only matchups where all 4x Traps come in for are Omni, Storm, High Tide, Belcher, and Oops. Trinisphere is still very good in those matchups, and it is more proactive against Storm's discard. But Trinisphere is also very good in Pyromancer and Mentor matchups, as it slows down their ability to cantrip into tokens, where Trap is not.
(b) I can't justify cutting Sphere of Resistance. That card has just been too consistently good. In addition to spell-based combo, it does a lot to slow down Elves and Affinity. Most importantly, it comes down consistently on T2, unlike Trinisphere. 2x Trap still comes in vs Elves, but it is only really effective on a Glimpse combo turn, where Sphere interferes with Glimpse and also slows down their ability to develop their board normally.
As far as Sneak & Show goes, I've always found the matchup to be fairly even to slightly favorable. The most important thing is usually to get down a Pithing Needle naming Sneak Attack. Between Karakas and Maze of Ith, Griselbrand is reasonably easy to answer. What really beats us is an Emrakul with haste. Once they see that you're playing Cloudposts, most Sneak & Show players will be very cautious about playing a blind Show & Tell, so Sneak Attack becomes their primary line of attack. Unless you Needle their Sneak Attack (or they Probe you first), a smart opponent will wait until they have Sneak + at least one open red source before playing Show & Tell. I've seen them also bring in Through the Breach for this reason. If they only have one extra red source, Karakas will still stop Emrakul from annihilating your board. If they have multiple red sources, Candelabras + Karakas will still give you some breathing space.
The Krosan Grips are also very important in this matchup. While they won't save you from Sneak Attack with Emrakul, they are still fine to kill the enchantment if they put in Griselbrand. More often, however, you need them because they frequently bring in cards like Blood Moon, Null Rod, and/or Pithing Needles (naming Karakas, Maze, or Expedition Map). Obviously, Oblivion Stone comes in too.
Since I added Ugin after Sneak was mostly replaced by OmniTell, I haven't played the matchup enough to know if he's worth keeping in. On one hand, he kills Blood Moon and a bare Sneak Attack. His +2 ability might actually be very relevant, because they often use Griselbrand to draw down to a low life total, while your Maze or Karakas prevents them from connecting with lifelink. On the other hand, you can't put Ugin in off of their Show & Tell, and he can't come down and immediately kill either Griselbrand or Emrakul (note: killing Griselbrand is actually one of the reasons I have a split between All Is Dust and Ugin).
So for sideboarding, I'd probably end up going down to 60 with:
+3 Krosan Grip, +1 Oblivion Stone
-1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -2 Ugin
Good luck, by the way!
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Enjoy drinking and drafting? Try the booze cube
Follow me on Twitter: @theboozecube
@ BoozeCUbe
Gravedigger's Cage is important.
First Reanimator is not that easy;)
Sometimes Elves are to fast with NO so i play it..
All against Zenith decks that they can't search knight and crap some Lands
It wasn't storm, it was the deck called Spanish Inquistion. Their goal is to kill you on turn 1 anyway they can. Never beating that deck.
Round 3 was variance I agree lol.
It depends how the metagame shifts post dig through time will depend which direction I take my deck.
Likely back to more midrange with jund and shardless making a come back. Sneak and show will definitely be coming back as the favored fatty combo deck. Delver variants will also likely be back in style excusing grixis from the meta for being bad without dig through time. Miracles will likely be back on the upswing as well.
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I completely agree with this. Although Omni has historically been one of our worst matchups, it was nice that it pushed out a lot of the other combo decks that we somewhat struggled with, allowing us to hone our builds to fight public enemy number one. I was feeling really comfortable with four Grips and two Trinispheres in the board, among the normal counterspells that I always run.
Dig getting banned was the one drastic change that I thought could possibly happen before GP Seattle. So now I am looking to retool my build for what will most likely still be a surprise meta by then. How is everyone expecting the meta to change, and what are you planning to do about it? Based on many people's predictions of the coming meta, my thoughts on the consequences for our deck is as follows:
Less Omnitell - Completely obvious, I know, but for the most part this benefits us. I'm not sure if the deck will vanish entirely, but it will most likely decrease dramatically since so many Omni players had just jumped on the bandwagon and will probably jump ship now that the deck has lost some limbs. Our enchantment hate is not as necessary now.
More Sneak and Show - I've never had too much difficulty facing Sneak and Show, and I certainly like seeing it instead of Omni. Needle effects take care of the Sneak Attack side of their combo, and their Show and Tells are just too dangerous to cast against us. Through the Breach is the only thing they can win with that could blindside you if you don't expect it, so have counters or a Karakas ready for that.
More Death and Taxes - Consequent of more Sneak and Show, this change I am fine with as well. An early Show and Tell - Primeval Titan just wrecks them, and since they aren't blue, a Crop Rotation in response to a Wasteland/Port has no drawback.
More Elves/Storm - I know some combo lovers that had moved to Omnitell for its sheer ease will probably move back to these troublesome strategies for us. To my surprise, a lot of winning Elves lists haven't been including Shaman of the Pack, which I thought would become a mainstay and is a big problem for us (we can't hide across Glacial Chasm from it). These decks strengthening are a negative result of Omnitell weakening.
More BUG Delver/Less Grixis - This is what I am most worried about. Discard is good again, and Liliana can end us before too long. We also don't have a lot of trump cards for the matchup, just cards that can shore up some of our weaknesses against them (I'm thinking Relic for their Goyfs and Deathrites, Carpet of Flowers for their mana denial, Needle effects for Wasteland and Liliana). No blanket answers, although a resolved Ugin should be the most decisive win condition we can drop against them.
More Shardless/Jund - Jund can be difficult, but I see it as very similar to Death and Taxes. ShowTime wrecks them, Crop Rotation tricks them and always works. Like BUG Delver, we don't have a lot of great hate cards though.
This is my latest traditional list:
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul
1 Ulamog (uncertain which one yet)
1 Kozilek
3 Crop Rotation
2 Repeal
4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell
1 Candelabra
2 Engineered Explosives (love this card recently but didn't play it when BUG/Jund were last good. Is this good for those matchups?)
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Diving Top
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
Sideboard
4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Krosan Grip (fewer now without Omni, but still pretty useful against Blood Moons and other things)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (replacing Trinispheres from Omni era; are preemptive Storm hate and work against BUG)
1 Pithing Needle (always seen this as a broad, versatile answer. My main hate for Wasteland, and also great for Liliana and the Lands deck in general)
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Tabernacle
Let me know what your expectations for the new meta are, and how you plan to construct your build. This is how I see the format unfolding, and I think I have all my bases covered with this setup.
I agree with your new meta analysis, but for elves I think the situation is still difficult: with terminus(miracle) as strongest and most solid deck in the format, it's difficult for each deck that relies on creatures. Of course elves gain something from the disappear of DTT, but I think BUG/discarding deck gained more: duress/thoughtseize/tourach risked only to fuel DTT, now they return to their maximum efficiency.
Yesterday I made some games with the BANT version (terminus). I played with burn and elves; win 2-0, 2-1 with burn and 2-0, 2-1, 2-1 with elves.
With burn I won thanks to:
-terminus on swiftspear and goblin guide->slow his menace->wait S&T->emperion->win
-trickbind on rift bolt
-S&T->emperion on third turn
With burn I lost thanks to:
-S&T-> I put emrakul, he put ensnaring bridge. No krosan grip in hand, eidolon is on the battlefield. I tried to search for a krosan with brainstorm, got to much damage and died.
With elves I won thanks to:
-trickbind on behemoth
-trickbind on reclamation sage
-oblivion stone at third turn, wipe all at fourth
-terminus after behemoth
With elves I lost thanks to:
-mulligan to 5, I kept an hand with few lands, S&T, primeval. On his first turn, thoughtseize. gg.
-glacial chasm after behemoth: stay alive for some turns, but with 2 lands less (crop+glacial's effect) I didn't recover in time (while he was making damage with deathrite.....)
Maybe with elves I could side better, putting some flusterstorms against discards. I put oblivion, ugin and tabernacle; he always found the cradle, so tabernacle wasn't so usefull, he succeded to keep alive all the elves and still make game with other lands.
I will change something in sideboard: at the moment I have 2 needle in side, 3 trickbind and 2 needle in main. Too much, I think I will remove 1 needle from side.
It’s awfully quite lately on this forum… Is everybody trying to hide their trade secrets?
I’m still looking forward to rock’s update of the match-up section and his new build...
Well, I guess it’s up to me to break the ice. I got badly beaten last weekend (25 p tournament). I suppose I made a lot of misplays and the build didn’t feel balanced. In my defence I can only say that it was my first time playing against legacy decks (played only against burn before). I drew with miracles and didn’t even realize I was playing against miracles, until mentor tokens killed me – this should give some insight into my profound knowledge of legacy. Lost to what I believe was bug and rug (kept low mana hands and totally misplayed trickbind), got screwed over by infect, drew with some sort of death blade (if I’m not mistaken). Though I did win against DnT. Though I have to say all those match-ups seemed very close, probably very winnable, if you know what you're doing...
Anyways I’ve decided to run a heavy SnT package and drop the cute aspects of the build (namely trinket mage). I was also running 25 lands and now moved up to 26. Still not sure about the sideboard options. I’m also hesitating about the number of expedition maps (2 or 3?) and repeals (2 or 3)? Not certain about 2 islands or 3 vesuvas? Any suggestions?
Land (26)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
2x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva
Instant (14)
4x Brainstorm
3x Crop Rotation
3x Repeal
4x Trickbind
Artifact (8)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Expedition Map
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Creature (8)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3x Platinum Emperion
4x Primeval Titan
Sorcery (4)
4x Show and Tell
Sideboard (15)
1x All Is Dust
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Force of Will
3x Krosan Grip
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Swan Song
First, these posts are funny to look back at regarding how the format changed after TC:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post862359
After looking at the SCG top 8, it is easy to see that it is basically the meta from 15 months ago: Sneak, Delver, DnT, Storm, etc. I'm using my list from that time as a basis to move forward with:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post822502
Mentor/Pyro/Angler may stick around which will still potentially influence the repeal count, and I will play ulamog 2.0, but other than that, that is a good start. I had a lot of success against the SnT, DnT meta with that list. Needle and Crop rotation return to being VERY strong. Note this is also close to the 2010/2011 original rock lee list, which somehow still endures!
Yayy, Repeal is good again! I think I want to go 2/2 with Trickbinds and Needles moving forward, and maybe move back towards having FoW in the sb. I'm seeing a lot of Death and Taxes. How does everyone feel about Moment's Peace? When that card is bad, it's really bad, but when it is good, it is Timewalk with flashback, which is absolutely a house. The miracles deck in the recent SCG IQ had no Mentors. Is this an omen in the sky that all Miracles players will fall in pace with? Monastery Mentor does seem a lot worse without the power of DTT. I'm very excited for our deck moving into this new meta. Glad to be back fighting traditional combo rather than having to bend over backwards to interact in a generally futile way with absurd combo pieces.
Some Fear the Dead
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