[Primer/Deck] Pox

[Chiptoon]

I went 2-2 in a tournament today before dropping. I was rocking Mono Black with a makeshift sideboard and I kinda paid for some sloppy play. I got matched up with Elves twice, Death & Taxes, and Imperial Taxes. I really had issues with 2 toughness creatures today as Engineered Plague and Night of Souls' Betrayal were good just not against Deathrite and Stoneforge. How do the Mono Black players board against D&T? I was taking out Sinkhole and I feel like that might have been a mistake.

[jredelstein]

We're talking about the same one

My deck can only use the 0 on his first side and I have no use what so ever (almost for his) -1 and ultimate on the flip side since I play at most 2 creatures in my deck.

Also he dies to killing clique and delver alot.

He also basically cost 5 mana vs DnT since they usually have Thalia or Wingmare in play.

The building an army part mainly refers to making 2/2 creatures

I absolutely love Garruk Relentless especially against Miracles. I would never bring him in against a Delver deck or Death and Taxes, but he is good against Stoneblade and Miracles. The only answer Miracles has to him is Council's Judgment which are overloaded because of Liliana of the Veil. I also tend to bring him in against Combo as a finisher but that is mostly because I have so much to take out, Abrupt Decay, Pernicious Deed, Maelstrom Pulse, Cabal Pit

I think Garruk Wildspeaker is probably not worth it, we are not going to have a bunch of cards to play on turn 4 or 5 that we want to mana ramp in order to play multiple things, recurring loam is the only thing I could think of, so your 3-4 Barren Moor deck maybe could take better advantage of it than my build. Otherwise you are using the -1 as many times as you can to make an army which I like Garruk Relentless better for, especially because it is easier to cast and can kill things if need be.

[zenitramleirdag]

I went 2-2 in a tournament today before dropping. I was rocking Mono Black with a makeshift sideboard and I kinda paid for some sloppy play. I got matched up with Elves twice, Death & Taxes, and Imperial Taxes. I really had issues with 2 toughness creatures today as Engineered Plague and Night of Souls' Betrayal were good just not against Deathrite and Stoneforge. How do the Mono Black players board against D&T? I was taking out Sinkhole and I feel like that might have been a mistake.

i remember reid once ran darkblast in his board the same time he was also running night of soul's betrayals and engineered plagues in his 75..

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...act-Cards.html


..darkblast becomes stronger with either of those in play, you can even kill 3 toughness creatures if you dredge it..

against death and taxes, i name humans with with my engineered plagues, it almost always makes 8 cards in their deck uncastable dead draws, almost all DnT lists run 4 mother of runes and 4 thalias..some lists run Mirran Crusader, Ethersworn Canonist and sometimes even Imperial Recruiter and Magus of the Moon which are all humans..
i may board out a copy of hymn and sinkhole to make room for more removal spells..
dread of night is good against them..and virtue's ruin too..

[kingtk3]

What do you think of ob nixilis reignited as a single copy in mono black lists? He is a CA engine, removal and win condition packed in a single card, much like Jace (but obviously weaker).

[zenitramleirdag]

What do you think of ob nixilis reignited as a single copy in mono black lists? He is a CA engine, removal and win condition packed in a single card, much like Jace (but obviously weaker).

his first 2 abilities are relevant to our deck, but that 5 cmc could be a deal breaker..
i'm not sure how reliably we can cast this at 5..
wouldn't we be better off with bottled cloisted or even phyrexian arena?
i'm not sure..but i'm willing to give this card a try..

[kingtk3]

I've never played Pox before but I would like to try a monoblack version, something like this:

4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

13 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

2 Cursed Scroll
4 The Rack
1 The Abyss
1 Crucible of World
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
3 Thoughtseize
4 Sinkhole

SIDE:
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Helm of Obedience
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Spinning Darkness
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Duress


What do you think? Are there any obvious mistakes in the list?

Thanks.

[rlesko]

I think you have too much hand disruption, it looks more like modern 8 rack lists. Ob Nixilis seems clunky at 5 mana and no dark rituals. I don't see why not just include 1 Nether Spirit in there somewhere.

[kingtk3]

Given that I would like to test Ob Nixilis, what changes would you apply to my list?

Thank you.

[PirateKing]

The Rack doesn't play nice with Sinkhole and Wasteland. You're going to ruin their mana and they'll be stuck with cards in hand and you'll have a wasted slot. Dark Ritual is a glaring omission from that list. One or two copies of Nether Spirit would also be good.

[kingtk3]

So you suggest to change the racks with dark rituals? There will be enough win conditions? Would'nt the rituals be dead anyway in top deck?

Thanks for all the advices!!!

[PirateKing]

They can be, yes, but they're less dead then The Rack over all circumstances. If you want to run a Rack deck, look at some of the 8rack decks, they look similar, but their different priorities make them play out differently. Pox isn't a sprint, its the toughest of marathons. Most times my life sheet has my opponent going from 20 to 0 in increments of 2. Doesn't make for flashy games, but you're at the wrong place for pizzazz.

[jredelstein]

So you have 3 mana, a targeted discard spell, and a Hymn to Tourach, what order do you play them in?


Could depend on turn and opponent deck and handsize. But I tend to lead with the targeted discard, but I am wondering your thoughts.

[PirateKing]

Depends if I think they have Daze or Spell Peirce. Hymn first and targeted second gets better value in a vacuum, but that's hardly ever the environment that you're playing. So if you fear they'll have a response, targeted first is safer. If it's nothing but sorcery speed nonsense, then Hymn first.

[tescrin]

Targeted always.

Targeted can't hit lands but Hymn can. If you Hymn first you risk missing with your Targeted purely because you hit the same cards with hymn. If you Target First you can also see if it's worth hymning yet; or wait until a little bit later. The odd opponent who plays Baloth, Dredge, Reanimator, or Loam or something also won't get a free win off of you feeding him.

Not only that, but if you want lucky-land-screws you want to minimize the number of non-lands in their hand; again Target First gives you the better chance here.


EDIT: See later pages. Targeted First against Fair decks. In general, Hymn has better probabilities against Combo if you use it first.

[Hardcore]

How would Encroach do as the 1cc discard in decks running Sinkhole?
I have not had the cards to test that myself.

[rlesko]

Given that I would like to test Ob Nixilis, what changes would you apply to my list?

Thank you.

I would go down to 8 hand disruption spells (4 1cc of your preference, 4 Hymn), remove Rack (4), add Dark ritual (4), add a Nether Spirit, and then add whatever you want in the remaining slots, in accordance with your play style.

[rlesko]

Depends if I think they have Daze or Spell Peirce. Hymn first and targeted second gets better value in a vacuum, but that's hardly ever the environment that you're playing. So if you fear they'll have a response, targeted first is safer. If it's nothing but sorcery speed nonsense, then Hymn first.

I don't see how hymn first is better value in a vacuum? See below for my thoughts exactly.

Targeted always.

Targeted can't hit lands but Hymn can. If you Hymn first you risk missing with your Targeted purely because you hit the same cards with hymn. If you Target First you can also see if it's worth hymning yet; or wait until a little bit later. The odd opponent who plays Baloth, Dredge, Reanimator, or Loam or something also won't get a free win off of you feeding him.

Not only that, but if you want lucky-land-screws you want to minimize the number of non-lands in their hand; again Target First gives you the better chance here.

[tescrin]

How would Encroach do as the 1cc discard in decks running Sinkhole?
I have not had the cards to test that myself.

Encroach has the issue of missing more so than other discard. A mere one third of their deck or less is the target, and it's the section of their deck they will play immediately every turn that they have the option. It has little use against combo and can miss even with lands in their hand (Omni, Sneak, D&T, etc..)

[zenitramleirdag]

I've never played Pox before but I would like to try a monoblack version, something like this:

4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

13 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

2 Cursed Scroll
4 The Rack
1 The Abyss
1 Crucible of World
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
3 Thoughtseize
4 Sinkhole

SIDE:
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Helm of Obedience
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Spinning Darkness
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Duress


What do you think? Are there any obvious mistakes in the list?

Thanks.

it would be easier for us to evaluate your list if you explained the kind of meta that you're playing in..what kinds of decks are you expecting to go up against? what matchups do you find difficult? etc..

just posting a list and asking if its good or not is very difficult to answer, and the answers you'd most likely get would be based on the player's personal observation or experience in his or or her own meta which could be a lot different from yours..

there are many things to consider before anyone can conclude whether its a good list or not..

but to answer your question at least, i think you might be running more discard than you need, i personally wouldn't go beyond 8 discard spells(in any combination of IOK, thoughtseize and hymn) in the main..but then again, the meta you're playing in might be saturated with combo so i wouldn't know how useful might advise to you would be..

[zenitramleirdag]

infect and decks with lingering souls, monastery mentor and young pyromancer are common in my meta now..i'm relegating my toxic deluge to the board and might revert back to the old reid duke configuration with night of soul's betrayal and engineered plague in the main..

other than jace, tms..the 2 cards in legacy right now that can really hurt me are chalice of the void(set at ) and pithing needle(naming scroll or factory)..so i'm including 1-2 copies of ratchet bomb again at the side to have a possible out to these..

i'm a little light on gravehate right now with just 2 extirpates and a lone surgical extraction..coz i made room for the ratchets..i would like to have 4-of leylines in my board but i'm expecting more control and combo than graveyard based strategies next tourney so i geared my 75 for those specific matchups instead..