All B/R update speculation.

[Zombie]

Arguments against Brainstorm haven't gone anywhere -it's still as absurd as it was last month/year/decade- I think everyone's just recovering after the extreme orgasm that was DTT actually being banned.

They may also be busy playing Magic and actually having fun doing it for the first time in a while.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'm a little (only a little) bit sad that I sold RUG Delver, because it looks like that WotC took a good direction for the first time in five-six years; I think that I'd love to play in this environment. Amazing news for everyone who loves the beautiful format that is Legacy.
I just hope that they won't print some draw3 spell anytime soon...

[Sloshthedark]

I'm a little (only a little) bit sad that I sold RUG Delver, because it looks like that WotC took a good direction for the first time in five-six years; I think that I'd love to play in this environment. Amazing news for everyone who loves the beautiful format that is Legacy.
I just hope that they won't print some draw3 spell anytime soon...

just ask and you'll get the cards... btw. there is the MKM event in one week ; )

[Bed Decks Palyer]

just ask and you'll get the cards...

Bah. Not again, that joke wouldn't be funny anymore...

btw. there is the MKM event in one week ; )

Next weekend? Nice, I still got 4 Volcs left.

[easysantiago]

Arguments against Brainstorm haven't gone anywhere

That is neither here nor there. I say make popcorn and fire up the debate.

[nedleeds]

That is neither here nor there. I say make popcorn and fire up the debate.

OK

another day another 7/8 in the top 8 ... a gentleman's appearance for elfs.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...decklists.html

I played 4 x Brainstorm and 0-2 dropped ... too skill intensive for me clearly

[Stevestamopz]

That is neither here nor there. I say make popcorn and fire up the debate.

The debate of "ban brainstorm" is much more enjoyable on Reddit than here so most of my shitposting happens there now. Most everyone's position here is solidly cemented because they've seen this thread a million times.
I also feel bad/guilty about shitposting on the source - something I have no qualms about doing on reddit.

Back to the topic at hand, what is there to be said that hasn't been said a million times. Brainstorm being 28/32 is about as surprising as the rising of the sun each morning.

[easysantiago]

The debate of "ban brainstorm" is much more enjoyable on Reddit than here so most of my shitposting happens there now. Most everyone's position here is solidly cemented because they've seen this thread a million times.
I also feel bad/guilty about shitposting on the source - something I have no qualms about doing on reddit.

I agree. Things have really calmed down in this thread. I still get a kick out of going through the 670 pages of Brainstorm related shit-flinging, but there isn't really much new to say about the topic.

Is r/mtglegacy any good? I haven't seen too much shitposting there (or regular posting, for that matter).

[sdematt]

TL:DR - Brainstorm is good, and good enough that it meets all the criteria to get banned, but it won't be. So, the obvious solution is to keep bringing cards off the banned list and/or printing more good non-blue options for either card selection, or just value that aren't super easily splashable (aka. Goyf).

Sounds about right?

-Matt

[sjmcc13]

OK

another day another 7/8 in the top 8 ... a gentleman's appearance for elfs.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...decklists.html

I played 4 x Brainstorm and 0-2 dropped ... too skill intensive for me clearly

How many of the known decks do not run brainstorm or port, or a play set of some $150+ card only really used in that deck (and maybe one other)?
and are not a glass cannon combo?

To much of the SCG player base is too invested in BS based deck to switch to anything else quickly, if ever. and way to many of them are just copying the winning decks (maybe with slight tinkering), and not creating/testing anything new. Personally the only non-BS decks I have the cards for are MUD, Spanish Inquisition, Belcher, Dredge and Maverick. Not the best selection, but my fav deck types are all ones that want BS...

This is a problem with evaluating these results you can not just look at the top 8, you need to look at the entire field that came from, and also need to consider the card pools of those players. if 80% of the field is invested in to BS decks, and nothing else, then expect 80% of the top to be BS.

If you want to complain get the metagame demographics, and the highest placing for each deck type and that an be used for some analysis.

You want proof that BS is to good, arrange a tournament where non BS decks are in high numbers (more then half of the field) and the skill level and deck familiarity is balanced between the BS and non-BS decks. then we can see how many spots it takes in the top 8/16/32.

[Barook]

How many of the known decks do not run brainstorm or port, or a play set of some $150+ card only really used in that deck (and maybe one other)?
and are not a glass cannon combo?

To much of the SCG player base is too invested in BS based deck to switch to anything else quickly, if ever. and way to many of them are just copying the winning decks (maybe with slight tinkering), and not creating/testing anything new. Personally the only non-BS decks I have the cards for are MUD, Spanish Inquisition, Belcher, Dredge and Maverick. Not the best selection, but my fav deck types are all ones that want BS...

This is a problem with evaluating these results you can not just look at the top 8, you need to look at the entire field that came from, and also need to consider the card pools of those players. if 80% of the field is invested in to BS decks, and nothing else, then expect 80% of the top to be BS.

If you want to complain get the metagame demographics, and the highest placing for each deck type and that an be used for some analysis.

You want proof that BS is to good, arrange a tournament where non BS decks are in high numbers (more then half of the field) and the skill level and deck familiarity is balanced between the BS and non-BS decks. then we can see how many spots it takes in the top 8/16/32.

Card price is hardly an argument for Brainstorm when MTGO is highly competitive, plus way cheaper (including switching decks due to higher liquidity) and Brainstorm numbers often being even higher than Paper.

[ahg113]

OK

another day another 7/8 in the top 8 ... a gentleman's appearance for elfs.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...decklists.html

I played 4 x Brainstorm and 0-2 dropped ... too skill intensive for me clearly

Well clearly you were playing an illegal deck. How did you expect not to lose those matches? I mean, you would've lost every game if you just showed up with 4 Brainstorm, that's not even a full opening hand.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Card price is hardly an argument for Brainstorm when MTGO is highly competitive, plus way cheaper (including switching decks due to higher liquidity) and Brainstorm numbers often being even higher than Paper.

Maybe people play what they like from RL? Idk, it might be a host of reasons, most natural being the one that BS.dec is truly that good.

But I wouldn't underestimate the price barrier, I was the one who took little care of that even few years back, but now when the prices are thru the roof, it's pretty unlikely that 1) young players will migrate to Legacy and 2) the old foggies will keep their collections in case of any financial need. From the perspective of a dude who's living in a country whose economics is not driven by 3rd World's exploitation, fiat money and shameful wars, it's kinda hard to justify sitting on a pile of cardboard crack when your family needs another set of wintergummi you won't be diy in your backyard vulcanizer.

Just for the fun of it, I wanted to visit the MKM:Ptahue on the next weekend, but realizing that not even a local dealer/semipro/shark is able to lend me the cards I need - coz he's stuck on 12 Goyfs only -, makes me wonder if all the hurrayz about MtG's popularity are completely correct: the game was much more fun back in times when a solid deck did cost about 200 USD which is just about the sume I'd pay for what the Your Local Thursday Magic Evening might offer.

tl,dr: prices suck, the only winners are SCG and alikes.

[Kwas]

Maybe people play what they like from RL? Idk, it might be a host of reasons, most natural being the one that BS.dec is truly that good.

But I wouldn't underestimate the price barrier, I was the one who took little care of that even few years back, but now when the prices are thru the roof, it's pretty unlikely that 1) young players will migrate to Legacy and 2) the old foggies will keep their collections in case of any financial need. From the perspective of a dude who's living in a country whose economics is not driven by 3rd World's exploitation, fiat money and shameful wars, it's kinda hard to justify sitting on a pile of cardboard crack when your family needs another set of wintergummi you won't be diy in your backyard vulcanizer.

Just for the fun of it, I wanted to visit the MKMtahue on the next weekend, but realizing that not even a local dealer/semipro/shark is able to lend me the cards I need - coz he's stuck on 12 Goyfs only -, makes me wonder if all the hurrayz about MtG's popularity are completely correct: the game was much more fun back in times when a solid deck did cost about 200 USD which is just about the sume I'd pay for what the Your Local Thursday Magic Evening might offer.

tl,dr: prices suck, the only winners are SCG and alikes.

... And the people that have made the prices go up, due to demand? There is a market, the players. Without those, decks would still be 200 each.

Sendt fra min LG-D802 med Tapatalk

[Crimhead]

another day another 7/8 in the top 8 ... a gentleman's appearance for elfs.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...decklists.html

...But only 10/16 in the top 16!
What's most interesting about this is G/W Enchantress in ninth place! I can't seem to find the number of players, but being a premier IQ I assume this was a big one? Pretty sweet if Enchantress is capable of placing in a big event (and we can only imagine hardly anybody was playing it).

In other coverage, Ovino 10 - Legacy Main Event (335 players) had 5/8 decks running Brainstorm.

How many of the known decks do not run brainstorm or port, or a play set of some $150+ card only really used in that deck (and maybe one other)?
and are not a glass cannon combo?

Aggro Loam and Merfolk are the only decks which come to mind.

TL:DR - Brainstorm is good, and good enough that it meets all the criteria to get banned, but it won't be.

Ha! If we had a comprehensive criteria for ban-worthy vs not ban-worthy, this thread would be a single post.

Curious, what do you believe this criteria to be?

[Megadeus]

...But only 10/16 in the top 16!
What's most interesting about this is G/W Enchantress in ninth place! I can't seem to find the number of players, but being a premier IQ I assume this was a big one? Pretty sweet if Enchantress is capable of placing in a big event (and we can only imagine hardly anybody was playing it).

There was 97 I believe. And I think I was the only enchantress player. One reason I did so well was the fact that enchantress generally kicks the shit out of fair blue decks. My match ups were:
2 Elves
1 Infect
2 Miracles
1 RUG Delver
1 Shardless BUG

The top tables were almost entirely infect, elves, and miracles with me and a deathblade player pretty much being the exceptions. Take from that what you will.

[Sloshthedark]

Just for the fun of it, I wanted to visit the MKM:Ptahue on the next weekend
tl,dr: prices suck, the only winners are SCG and alikes.

you asked the wrong Thomas ;)

true

[Bed Decks Palyer]

... And the people that have made the prices go up, due to demand? There is a market, the players. Without those, decks would still be 200 each.

There's a "Bitching" thread elsewhere, but as long as sjmcc13 and Barook already brought this point:
I'm not sure if the community is winning, except maybe for the guy who's turning his Legends boosters into Ferrari. But for the average dude it's becoming increasingly bothersome to get the necessary cards and thus he's stuck on the whatever deck/collection he has til the end of time. Is it right, wrong? Idk, I'm just trying to say that cards availability finally may be an issue.

Look, even cards as silly as Nasrat: the Transcendent are pretty expensive and considering the duals and similar stuff, there's no way how and why the people without already big collections should jump from deck to deck namely to try a second-to-the-best choice of non-blue piles additionaly in a context of some bigger tourney.

you asked the wrong Thomas ;)

[sjmcc13]

Card price is hardly an argument for Brainstorm when MTGO is highly competitive, plus way cheaper (including switching decks due to higher liquidity) and Brainstorm numbers often being even higher than Paper.

How much is a set of Port's in MTGO again? well over $600 last time I checked.

MTGO is cheaper but it is still not cheap enough to eliminate price as a factor, as a $400 deck is still allot for much of the player base. We do not hall have large sums of disposable income, and it is hard to change decks without taking some level of a loss financially.

[frafen]

TL:DR - Brainstorm is good, and good enough that it meets all the criteria to get banned, but it won't be. So, the obvious solution is to keep bringing cards off the banned list and/or printing more good non-blue options for either card selection, or just value that aren't super easily splashable (aka. Goyf).

Sounds about right?

-Matt

Yep, I definitely agree with that.