Interesting development, I'll try this the next time I see the deck.Originally Posted by skyout
I agree with decan's aproach against burn. Might even board 2nd disenchant effect because they have 6 targets (4 Eidolons and 2 Sulfuric Vortex).
Rest in Peaces without Energy Field sound super janky, Grims will still deal 1 damage and Exquisite Firecrat still deals 4. They could instead have Vexing Shushers and then your RiPs will look extra silly.
Lol @boarding rip against burn. That's like boarding out your best weapon which is snapcaster. And Rip doesn't have any immediate impact like it would against reanimate. Also you have to board in at least 2 better 3 to have a good chance of finding it IN TIME!
This whole thought process is just wrong and now I understand why some of you have problems against burn with such a plan in mind. This is almost null-rod-boarding-level.
Let's say your opponent hates losing against miracles and has like 3 firecraft. It's 3cmc and a sorcery, which means its slow and you can clique it away. Also people playing that card may improve their miracles matchup but lose too much ground against other decks. Consequently you are rather going to meet those players in round one or two and not in a match for top 8.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=92685
Well, I went 4-3 at SCG Atlanta. Played against infect 3 times which seems like it was just really bad luck. I don't think its worth making a change for that matchup alone (went 1-2 vs it), but if anybody has ideas that don't waste slots, let me know
R1 - Goblins (W)
R2 - Infect (W)
R3 - RUG Delver (W)
R4 - Bant Infect (L)
R5 - BUG Delver (W)
R6 - Infect (L)
R7 - Jund (L)
Last edited by alphastryk; 10-13-2015 at 12:03 PM. Reason: typos
Peacekeeper. He also shuts down merfolks, dredge, reanimator, sneak show, and goblins (even better if they side incinerators out g2 and 3). Ensnaring bridge is potent, but peacekeper is hardcore lock against infect.
controls
I played against a burn player with firecraft and the threat was real. I had top/balance in play with a wear/Tear floating and he hit me with it twice. I went on to win with venser and karakas as my protection against further spells. Definitely a consideration in the matchup.
Welp! I guess decan's wrong because this one guy made top 16 at a PIQ!
But seriously though. Rest in Peace? Vs. Burn? I feel kind of silly responding to this, but if you are /that/ afraid of these cards, then by all means, please test it. I will never say no to more data. I fail to see how the intuition behind RIP falls in line with the strategy behind playing vs. Burn. Making an uncounterable spell counterable? Sacrificing tempo in the early game to hedge against a potential creature that can STILL be answered in a variety of ways by other cards in our postboard 60?
For constructive discussion:
decan, I personally am not a fan of Vendilion Clique in the matchup. The disruption it provides is good but not good enough, and if I want to finish the game I'd rather just have Mentor since it stops their creatures from attacking very very well while also absorbing a card in the case they kill it (which is more likely since there is more imperative to answer Mentor than there is to answer Clique). I could be very wrong about Vendilion Clique though, as it is still instant speed removal at times.
Looking at Angelo's list, the cards I'm not ecstatic about are:
2 lands, Mentor, JTMS, Terminus
Cards in the board I'm especially interested in:
3 fluster
1 ee
1 wt
So I'd probably end up cutting the 3 Jaces and 2 lands for those 5 cards. If 2x Clique is better than the 2nd and 3rd Terminii then I could see that swap as well. Actually, I don't like the 3rd Terminus at all, so I'd probably axe that for at least 1 Clique. It's probable that I'm undervaluing Clique's filtration in this MU and it might just be better than the 2nd Mentor.
Fwiw, Jon started off 0-2 and then rattled off 5 straight wins.
Mentor is excellent, as it closes the game out quick - That's what you want your win conditions to do in the matchup.
Also, people arguing RiP is fine to board in... What? You wan't removal for their Vortex, Eidelon as well as counter for their PoP/Fireblast (which is why you also leave in some number of Terminus, as they are both CMC 6).
Boarding RiP is about as sane as boarding Null Rod versus x.
I can't believe 445 pages into this thread the topic is how to beat burn.
I won 1 game against miracles with Firecraft + Ring. The other game included bolt+ bolt + bolt.....
I wanted to play 3 rings just to have % against miracles and it paid off.
Rip seems excessive.
I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.
Soldier Stompy
In some versions of the deck I've boarded in Rest in Peace against Burn...
...to have another 2 to float with Top, not to actually put into play.
but....but this is supposed to be a joke, right?
RIGHT?
Ring + Firecraft + Lavamancer is something.. But Snapcaster is too good ^_^
I didn't know the card Firecraft yet.. Damn, annoying..
Obviously keep fow in. Like how on earth are you not doing this.Please elaborate?
There are a lot of bad cards to take out in the mirror (Swords to Plowshares, some number of Terminus, FoW is debateable). There aren't enough red blasts in the board to replace these cards, so I bring in W/T.
Now that DTT is banned, I feel like W/T makes even more sense in the mirror. The fuse mode can normally always be used, as at least one player is likely to have a top on the board.
Would you suggest keeping in all the FoW's to fight CB on the stack more aggressively?
Wear sucks because if cb resolves in the first place you are fucked. You absolutely don't want that card to hit the opposite side fo the table, period. Stack your deck with counters and flash creatures. Force the op to empty his hand of counters and then slam your own counterbalance.
That used to be a viable stategy, I think too, but with Wear//Tear, Counterspell, Snapcaster as well as Counterbalance (all on 2) I don't think that's as strong anymore.
So, the fun story about that.
At SCG St. Louis right after BNG released, I played the Legacy Open, and got paired against Burn round 2. Won game 1 pretty easily. Game 2, I had an extra slot after boarding out dead cards, and so brought in an RiP and had it floating. Countered a Price of Progress with it. Stabilized at 2 life.
Then the opponent drew a Barbarian Ring. And he had threshold. So he cracked the Ring, I activated Top in response and he said something like "if Counter/Top gets you out of this one I'll be really impressed".
As it turns out, my (not previously seen) third card down was a Snapcaster Mage, which I drew with Top and cast to flash back Swords to Plowshares on the Snapcaster, going up to 4. I then said "OK, Barbarian Ring activation resolves". Took the match 2-0.
(and then the wheels fell off about round 5, because I'd been on the judge staff Saturday for the epic eleven-round 763-player monstrosity of a Standard Open that ran that weekend)
Last edited by ubernostrum; 10-14-2015 at 10:43 PM.
which are the advantages of peacekeeper over Humility? The only one i can think of is it doesnt die to krosan grip (infect), since im guessing spell pierce is not a real thing from any of those decks.
Humility, on the other hand, is much better vs reanimator.
Costing one less mana is a big advantage against Infect. You might not have the time to resolve a 4 CMC spell, especially through Daze. And some infect decklists do run 1-2 Spell Pierces. That said, Peacekeeper is not 100% game over. It can be killed by Berserk, and some lists do play Piracy Charm.
Personally, I've never felt that the Reanimator matchup needs something as drastic as Humility. I can't even recall the last time that I lost to Reanimator.
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