[Deck] Dredge

[Oestrus]

Hey folks!

Long time lurker, first time poster. Been playing Dredge, and Legacy since June of this year.

Reveillark is in fact good against Miracles. I've also found that eschewing a main deck Dread Return target, in favor of 4 Ichorid improves the matchup, too. It's whatever you're into, really.

I have to say, I expected people to lighten up on GY hate once DTT was banned. But it seems like people are responding to the ban by wanting to play more. Perhaps this is because people expect RUG Delver to become popular again, and GY hate affects Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster, and Nimble Mongoose. I'm not sure.

Either way, I'm happy to be here, and look forward to getting involved in discussions with people I've looked up to for a while now.

[potatodavid]

We want to play in a DTT meta. Delve spells were good times for us Dredge Players. No one playing any hate!

[laststepdown]

Cards like RIP and Leyline are lights out for this deck unless you can dispatch them quickly to rebuild your board. You can try the mediocre beats plan, but that doesn't end well normally xD I personally include Abrupt Decay in my sb as well to get rid of anything you could care for, however, this doesn't beat Leyline. As for Leyline I'm hedging and trying to dodge it as one would not normally commit 4 sb lots to beat 1 matchup. (the only other one it applies to is Reanimator both of which are "niche" decks); most people would prefer versatility in their sb as space is limited.

This is why I run wear/tear. Versatility. It's rare that Decay would kill anything besides a problematic artifact or enchantment.

[gibbousm]

This is why I run wear/tear. Versatility. It's rare that Decay would kill anything besides a problematic artifact or enchantment.

Honestly I'm more worried about getting up to 2 mana than about my removal getting countered. Wear//Tear has been working out well for you then? I'm considering cutting my 2 Wispmares for 2 Wears.

I like the Evoke creatures, Wispmare and Ingot Chewer, because 1 mana, can't be spell pierced/flusterstormed/swan songed and hard to hit with counter balance. However while Chewer can still generate me zombie tokens through hate, Wispmare almost never will. While I liked being able to put it into play off of Show and Tell, Omnitell's departure means it won't be as good.

[slave]

I like Surgical's in LED-dredge.

IDK how I feel about the DIG ban. Probably better for us in that it gives the opponent less time to find the hate piece. But then again Sneak & Show will come back which I felt was a weaker matchup. Agains Omni Cabal Therapy almost exclusively names S&T. However, against sneak and show you now have more options to choose from weather it be S&T, Sneak Attack, or Griselbrand so there is slightly more guess work.

Yeah I'm a bit the same, it was easy to just name S&T everytime I knew they were on Omni....
I feel Miracles probably won't be hurt much by this, or the delver decks, but I don't expect people to stop running gravehate all of a sudden. Unfortunately.

I am a little excited by Black Vise being unbanned.
Blue bounce (targeting lands) might be a thing again maybe? Not super effective against us though.

[birdbrains]

I actually like Ancient Grudge because its one of those cards you don't need to have in your opener for it be good and if you do open with it then you gain a lot more value. Generally I use it to blow up troublesome equipment (Jitte namely), artifact hate (Tormond's Crypt, Nihi Spellbomb, Relic of Prog), and other random artifacts I might care about (Ensnaring bridge which I can't actually beat via Attack step, Chalice of the Void, Painter, Grindstone, etc.)

If Ancient Grudge is only half an answer to Cage, then Ray of Revelation is the same to Leyline, though I would agree that Cage is definitely seen a lot more. And there is at least the added benefit of being able to take out a RIP.

Unless I'm totally messing up the interaction, doesn't the Ray go to the graveyard after it hits the RIP/Leyline? As long as we have it in hand, it seems like a decent enough answer.

IDK how I feel about the DIG ban. Probably better for us in that it gives the opponent less time to find the hate piece. But then again Sneak & Show will come back which I felt was a weaker matchup. Agains Omni Cabal Therapy almost exclusively names S&T. However, against sneak and show you now have more options to choose from weather it be S&T, Sneak Attack, or Griselbrand so there is slightly more guess work.

What about moving back to Pithing Needles? It lets us have a little more game against decks like Lands and SneakShow, as well as some fringe match ups. I never particularly liked them previously, but I think this might be the meta to bring them in.

If you expect Grindstone.dec to be there then I would agree on your inclusion of Blightsteel Colossus. This matchup can be atrocious though since they have hate game 1 in the form of Ensnaring Bridge and games 2 and 3 they actually have some decent GraveHate; RIP if they're playing W/R Grindstone with Enlightened Tutor, and Tormond's Crypt and the like if its mono red not to mention they have goblin Welder which means they get their pieces back the next turn.

There will definitely be a non-zero number of them in the room, but if it's a pretty bad matchup, it might be worth just writing off and spending that slot somewhere else.

[gibbousm]

So now that we've experience the new changes to the mulligan rules and the ban list I have to ask, how have people been dealing with Mentor Miracles because what was formerly a long but favored game 1 has now become incredibly difficult for me to win.

I played against it at my last FNM it being my only lostt.

Game 1 they forced my Putrid Imp and landed a turn 3 Mentor. It took me a long time to get a dredger in the yard and I didn't hit good cards off of it.

I won game 2 by discarding with Firestorm and going off my next turn burning my first DR on their Flusterstorm and flashing back the second one.

Game 3 I mulled to 1. Not much to say there.

Other times I've faced the deck it has proved a huge problem as Monastery Mentor has given them a way to clutter up the board making attacking impossible and a method of closing the game out quickly. When you combine this with their StP and Terminus I feel as if what was once an even match up has become especially unfavored.


In the past when I played against Miracles pre-Mentor I would leave my Ichorids in the graveyard as frequently as I could, slow Dredge, and just build up a zombie army to force their Terminus and keep my horrors safe. That strategy just doesn't seem to work anymore.

This is my Current List
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Mana Confluence
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
1x Darkblast
1x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
4x Bridge From Below
4x LED

SB: 1x Ancient Grudge
SB: 1x Ashen Rider
SB: 1x Back to Nature (there's 1 Enchantress player at my LGS and 2 other people thinking about taking up the deck)
SB: 1x Dread Return
SB: 1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 3x Firestorm
SB: 2x Ingot Chewer
SB: 1x Nature's Claim
SB: 2x Surgical Extraction
SB: 2x Wispmare

I usually sideboard -4 LED, -3 Breakthrough + 2 Wispmare +3 Firestorm +1 Nature's Claim +1 Dread Return for this match up. I'm considering cutting the Back to Nature for a 4th Firestorm as a discard outlet and instead of making the "slow game" cuts I typically make, make the "fast game" cuts I typically do against Combo and Burn decks though that does leave me more vulnerable to a turn 2 RIP and they often bring in more 1 mana counters to kill my initial discard outlet.

TL;DR : How have you been beating Mentor Miracles?

[DarkJester]

TL;DR : How have you been beating Mentor Miracles?

I don't play LegacyDredge that often anymore but I run it in Vintage and face similar problems. While thinking about it, could Elesh-Porn be a possible way to go, maybe in addition to some F-Storms?

Oppinions?

[apple713]

While thinking about it, could Elesh-Porn be a possible way to go, maybe in addition to some F-Storms?

Oppinions?

Another victim of autocorrect

[Noctalor]

Another victim of autocorrect

[potatodavid]

Played to some awesome 1-3 Drops this weekend. Felt like the deck was doing everything in its power to ensure I would not win. Typical angry shit, you know Dredge 5 cards 3 lands a careful study and an LED. Just shit like that. Well until the final round where i got the combo kill turn 2 & 3.

Thursday got more legacy coming up. Hopefully my deck won't be so angry with me then.

[gibbousm]

I don't play LegacyDredge that often anymore but I run it in Vintage and face similar problems. While thinking about it, could Elesh-Porn be a possible way to go, maybe in addition to some F-Storms?

Opinions?

I currently run 3 Firestorms, I'm tempted to run the 4th. The thing about Elesh Norn is that if I'm getting off a Dread Return it means I'm probably winning the match already. The number of times I've lost a game after resolving Dread Return is 2. One was because I named the wrong color, the other was because I had dredged to many times and wasn't able to close out the game before I decked myself.

So before we get derailed again by more auto-corrects how have people been getting over the roadblock that is Monastery Mentor?

[Que]

Unless I'm totally messing up the interaction, doesn't the Ray go to the graveyard after it hits the RIP/Leyline? As long as we have it in hand, it seems like a decent enough answer.



What about moving back to Pithing Needles? It lets us have a little more game against decks like Lands and SneakShow, as well as some fringe match ups. I never particularly liked them previously, but I think this might be the meta to bring them in.



There will definitely be a non-zero number of them in the room, but if it's a pretty bad matchup, it might be worth just writing off and spending that slot somewhere else.

You're right, but then you have to have it in your opener. If I had Ancient Grudge in my hand already then it would be the same thing?

Pithing Needle seems ok, but how many would you want? To me bringing in 1 will prob not be worth it. Against lands I feel the worse culprits are Tabernacle and Glacial Chasm - outside of Bojuka Bog obviously- instead of something like Maze of Ith or Thespian Stage so Pithing needle wouldn't be as much help there. But I agree they would be amazing against Sneak & Show as you would be able to stop both Sneak Attack and Griselbrand; course S&T'ing an Emmy into play will still be a thing.

As for other applications: Stops DRS, Sensei's Top, Ather Vial, Equipment, Tormond's Crypt (Relic, Nihi Spellbomb, etc.), Grisel/Sneak, Wirewood symbiote?, idk lol.


To the rest of the thread. I haven't actually had much practice against the mentor strategy. I should get into gear the GP is right around the corner.

[Final Fortune]

I currently run 3 Firestorms, I'm tempted to run the 4th. The thing about Elesh Norn is that if I'm getting off a Dread Return it means I'm probably winning the match already. The number of times I've lost a game after resolving Dread Return is 2. One was because I named the wrong color, the other was because I had dredged to many times and wasn't able to close out the game before I decked myself.

So before we get derailed again by more auto-corrects how have people been getting over the roadblock that is Monastery Mentor?

I was looking at Fetchlands, Dual Lands and Wonder the other day, seems legit.

[vieko]

TL;DR : How have you been beating Mentor Miracles?

Hey there – long time follower of this thread and loyal to the grave by choice :) My two cents on Miracles:

• OVERALL: be faster than them (shouldn't be a problem)
• if you see Mentor Game 1, bring in Elesh and get her on battlefield
• if they show you the hate Game 1, bring in Iona and land her on white
• I've had success with Sudden Shock vs. Miracles (both in Legacy and Vintage) Also hits: Deathrite Shaman, Containment Priest, Teeg, Fresh Scooze

I did recently lose to a Miracles deck packing 2 Rest in Peace + 1 Energy Field + Helm of Obedience mainboard along with Humility and Caltrops in the board... this was not fun at all... not sure how popular this is but fuck, it was a pain to play against. He had the lock on me by turn two. Anyways, something to look into!

[potatodavid]

Did my best dredging in a long time last night. Went 2-1 drop because I wanted to watch the Wild Beat the Coyotes. Magic and pro-hockey. Hard life to balance.

I used a pretty standard FKZ list. There's a lot of combo in my meta so having the FKZ maybe a bit win more but it also means win now in some circumstances.

Games:

Round 1. Storm
Game 1: I win the die Roll. I keep a 7 with 2 careful study & 2 dredgers, a Gemstone Mine and a Putrid Imp and a wraith. Play the study. Draw some more lands. Discard my dredgers. Cycle the street wraith to dredge a little earlier. Setup my next turn. pass. Opponent proceeds to drop 10 spells and tendrils me.
Game 2: I bring In Iona and an extra dread return. I doesn't matter as I cabal ritual his hand to pieces then combo off. He concedes when i drop LED & Breakthrough.
Game 3: He Mulls to 4. Probes my hand, plays a Petal to ponder. Passes the turn. Cabal Ritual naming LED. Hits 2. He scoops when i start to dredge.

Round 2. MUD
Game 1. My opponent plays a cavern of souls naming construct. I drop LED breakthrough, start to dredge 5 cards. then 11. He says game 2 before i can do anything else.
Game 2. Opponent plays a cavern naming construct. I play careful study drop 2 dregers and get 2 LED's Pass the turn. My Opponent drops a trinisphere. I dredge 6 to start my turn hit a faithless looting. I forget about the 3 ball and proceed to crack my first led for flooting dredge 12 more cards. I only have 1 bridge So I crack the second LED for a second flooting (see my mistake of forgetting I cannot flash back any spells to the 3 ball?) Correct play would have been to cabal one of my narcomeba's pop the LED and name metalworker, and Get 1 zombie for some beats. My opponent drops a metalworker then hardcasts a blightsteel. Oh for fucks sake.
Game 3. I keep a questionable hand, If I draw any dredger the hand is just insane. Spoiler alert: I don't draw the dredger.

Round 3. Elves
Game 1. Turn 2, flip deck into graveyard kill opponent with Zombies + FKZ.
Game 2. Turn 3 , Play Elesh Norn after cabal ritualing their hand of threats.

Round 4. Would have been BUG Rhino Nic Fit, my opponent kept talking about all this tech he had for me...okay buddy. and I had hockey to watch so i took my packs and headed home.

Lesson learned about MUD and 3ball though. Deck feels good again.

[gibbousm]

Round 2. MUD
Game 1. My opponent plays a cavern of souls naming construct. I drop LED breakthrough, start to dredge 5 cards. then 11. He says game 2 before i can do anything else.
Game 2. Opponent plays a cavern naming construct. I play careful study drop 2 dregers and get 2 LED's Pass the turn. My Opponent drops a trinisphere. I dredge 6 to start my turn hit a faithless looting. I forget about the 3 ball and proceed to crack my first led for flooting dredge 12 more cards. I only have 1 bridge So I crack the second LED for a second flooting (see my mistake of forgetting I cannot flash back any spells to the 3 ball?) Correct play would have been to cabal one of my narcomeba's pop the LED and name metalworker, and Get 1 zombie for some beats. My opponent drops a metalworker then hardcasts a blightsteel. Oh for fucks sake.


Lesson learned about MUD and 3ball though. Deck feels good again.

I'm a bit confused here. Trinisphere forces you to pay at least 3 mana. LED makes 3 mana. You can use that 3 mana to pay for the T-Sphere. Flashing back Faithless Looting with LED goes through sphere. If you've dreadged enough at that point you crack the LED to pay for the Dread Return flashback.

[Legionnaire12s]

Hello my fellow graveyard abusers!
I've been posting on here over the years but for whatever reason my old account isn't accessible.
That being said I plan on piloting Dredge at GP Seattle. I'm pretty confident with my main deck (Quad Laser) but I don't have a set side board for such a diverse field. Here is what I plan on running!

Creatures: 23

4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari-Grave Troll
4 Golgari Thug (Number 4 is a flex slot, could be a Dark blast)
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Putrid Imp

Spells:: 24

4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Bridge from Below

Lands: 13

4 Mana Confluence
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Cephalid Coliseum
2 City of Brass

Here is my plan for the SB.
3-4 Abrupt Decay
3-4 Firestorm
1 Dread Return
1 Ashen Rider

I know I want two slots to be either Chain of Vapor or Natures Claim. I really want to run Leyline of he Void as a four of.
What do ya'll think? I'm welcome to thoughts, comments, suggestions or criticism. That being said, are any of you playing Dredge in GP Seattle and what will your lists look like?

Thanks for being such a cool group of people over the years! May your hands be empty, your yard full and your tokens...doing token things! Cheers!

[potatodavid]

I'm a bit confused here. Trinisphere forces you to pay at least 3 mana. LED makes 3 mana. You can use that 3 mana to pay for the T-Sphere. Flashing back Faithless Looting with LED goes through sphere. If you've dreadged enough at that point you crack the LED to pay for the Dread Return flashback.

Right. I flashed back flooting twice when I should have once then dread returned for something big.

[meffeo]

Here is my plan for the SB.
3-4 Abrupt Decay
3-4 Firestorm
1 Dread Return
1 Ashen Rider

Nature's Claim is a must because it hits LotV (as every other Cage, Relic and so on), since Decay won't destroy it.

No big guys to reanimate in your 75s? Iona is obviously GG against Burn, D&T, Omni and Miracles to a lesser extent (beware of Jace / Karakas / Venser). Elesh Norn is also a great tool to swipe the board and pump your creatures. If you want to run more reanimations targets, the 2nd Dread Return has to find its place.

Why don't you run the 4th Coliseum? It's an uncounterable weapon to put in the bin a lot of cards. I understand that casting Decay with four Coliseum could be sometimes an issue, that's why people are running more CoB / Petals in their sideboard. I also tried with just three Coliseums but it's really a broken tool and we have to abuse its power.

My sideboard looks at the moment like this:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Nature's Claim
2 Lotus Petal
3 Firestorm
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider
1 Dread Return
1 City of Brass

Hope that helps.