+1 on Jesture on this "With the rise of Wastelands, I'm planning to move back to a second Crop Rotation in the sideboard."
i was to try the white splash for rip against dtt's, then it got banned... so i might be going all ug again on the next tourney...
vs. ant:
without rip in our sbplan, we can utilize Bimmense more as our 3rd and 4th berserks, our plan shld be an early kill. counter early discards for us to combo off.
im not worried bout their removals, if they load with decays and chain vapors itll only make their set up slower. ive always been successful battling ant, but games are close.
my boarding plan:
minus 1 inkmoth/3vines/3nobles
plus 2 pierces/3 graveyard hate/1fow/1flusterstorm
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Hi poxy14, I'm curious to know your sideboard after the DTT ban (in the new metagame).Originally Posted by poxy14
You said + 2 Pierces, + 1 FoW and +1 Flusterstorm... Do you usually have 4 counters in your sideboard?
yup, 4 slots for permissions.. combos are everywhere here in my meta.
my current sb (though i havent inserted in yet my newly acquired savannah and stps)
4 permissions: 2 pierces/1fow/1flusterstorm
3 gyhate: 1 graf/1tormod's/1surgical
2 kgrips
1 naturalize (nclaim does nothing vs the usual chalice 1 : )
2 pithing needles
1 sylvan (of course!)
1 ichorclaw myr (love ramming this abomination vs fair decks)
1 flex slot......
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So we're about a week into the newest meta resulting from the Dig Through Time ban. Any thoughts?
Since the replacement of the main deck Forest with Savannah, I've been shamefully blown out by all of the non-basic hate floating around my LGS (ex. Ghost Quarter fail to find) and have almost lost several games to not playing around our old friend Abrupt Decay. RUG is as difficult as ever, and I (thankfully) haven't seen any Mentors, Anglers, or Omniscience in the last week or so.
Overall, I feel as though the new meta slightly favors us. That said, it'll still take some time to get things settled in, and a lot can change in that fluctuation period. Curious to hear everyone else's thoughts, experiences, predictions, warnings, etc.
I partecipated in Ovino (tenth edition) last weekend.
It's the biggest eternal event in Italy.
I saw a rise of Team America and Aggro Loam (WBRG colours) in addition to the awaited large amount of Mentor Miracles (the most loved deck by Italians), but the tournament was held 4 days after the DTT ban: I think it was too early to be representative of the new meta.
Too many discards, ADecay and Wasteland were around for my liking...
placed 2nd on a mini legacy this weekend (3-1) with my splash white infect..
wrecked every deck i faced and got punished by just a horrible matchup vs moggcatcher on the last round...
was on a turn3 kill (hand was fow,fow, inkmoth, fetch, invi, berserk, daze)... land a fetch then passed opponent opened with city and cotv1, i dazed upon bstorming eot... i found in a glistener setting me up for a turn 3 kill, cast it and wait.... but then cavern happened and he landed magus DANG!
beat reanimator/mud/mbc 2-0 in all games : )
i had 3stps in my sb list and none of them showed : )
but i really felt itll be a lot of help when i face the fair decks.
still on 19 lands, no basics 4 trops/1savannah
btw, 2 of our brothers showed up on the top8 today in SCG... zacahary koch(5th) and robbie coleman(8th) and another C.Sutliff (13th)
congratulations guys!
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I could not find any legacy yesterday.
Do you have a link?
Neffy cut a ponder! We should kill him
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournamen...atlanta#online
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
Thanks Hopo.
Anyone here have tried a version with blazing shoal and some high CMC red spells (progenitus?). Its probably really bad, but i like the idea ^^ Doesnt require red mana either.
NOTE: transformational sideboard into natural order!!
Just thinking (far) out the box here ^^
Neffy cut a ponder! We should kill him
Ehhh. It's a completely different deck.
http://www.channelfireball.com/video...legacy-infect/
LSV did a video series with the deck. As far as I can tell, its just a watered down version of straight UG infect that is more susceptible to creature hate.
Quick recap of SCG Atlanta 5k IQ. (I'm Zachary Koch btw)
R1 - Merfolk
Both games were very fast hands with lots of pump spells and inkmoths/blighted agents. This matchup is pretty rough for the poor fish men because they're slower and can't disrupt us very well.
R2 - Manaless Dredge (1-0)
My opponent revealed to me that this is his first Legacy tournament. I feel good :)
G1: I won the die roll and didn't know what he was on so I mistakenly chose to play. My hand had a decent goldfish of glistener, hierarch, 2 lands, invigorate, daze, spell pierce. It didn't matter though because I didn't see any more pump spells and my opponent hit a bridge, cabal therapy, and jellyfish with his first 2 dredges (cycle street wraith and nat draw) He had plenty of blockers to set up and eventually overrun me.
G2: I kept a questionable hand of Inkmoth, Pendlehaven, Daze, RiP, Glistener Elf, Berserk, Ponder. Naturally, I don't draw a land or hierarch for 4 turns and assume I'm totally out of the game. My opponent misplays however and decides not to dread return the Chancellor of the Annex in his graveyard giving me one last draw step. I hit Savannah (finally!) and combo kill him in one hit.
G3: Turn 2 kill, on the play because obviously my opponent chooses to draw. Kind of anticlimactic for my opponent but that's how infect is sometimes.
R3 - Imperial Painter (2-0)
G1: This game basically boiled down to me being stupid and not Dazing his turn 2 Ensnaring Bridge (off of Spirit Guide). I thought I could kill him before he got empty handed and I wanted to have a counter in case he tried to blood moon me. He drew another Spirit Guide the following turn and was amazingly able to completely dump his hand. I milled a few turns later to the combo.
G2: Keep 7 of 2x Fetch, Noble, Pithing Needle, 3x Git Probe. Fire off all 3 probes to see his hand of Arid Mesa, SDT, City of Traitors, Pyroblast, Blood moon, Magus of the Moon, Grindstone. I draw Fetch, Brainstorm, Wasteland. This was a bad situation because if I cast Noble I can assure I'll have colored mana, but all of my lands are useless, and I have a lot of them. If I cast BS I can potentially find counter magic to fight the Blood Moon, but he has magus also so it seems unlikely I can fight both. I decide to make the ultra-risky/super high reward play of pithing Needle naming Arid Mesa. He plays his City and Top/Spin. I waste his City and play the Noble (draw was Blighted Agent). He draws, plays a Mountain and passes. I can't cast Agent because I have no way to fight the Pyroblast so I play my land and pass. He spins his top, in response I get to resolve my BS and find a Force+Second Blighted Agent. He draws, plays a different fetch land, and passes. My turn yields an Invigorate and once again I am resigned to passing without a play. I don't think I can jam the Agent in this situation because I have to use my Force to make it resolve and he can get Blood Moon. He spins, draws, draws with Top, plays a mountain and a Lotus Petal, casts Bloom Moon. I force, he uses the Petal to Pyroblast my Force and I'm now on 2 mountains and a Noble Hierarch. I draw a Berserk. Cast Blighted Agent and Pass. His turn he casts Magus of the Moon and passes back. I attack for 6 with a hard cast invigorate and cross my fingers. His draw finds nothing and I'm able to attack, trigger the hierarch, and berserk for the kill.
G3: My opponent mulligans to 5 and keeps his scry. I don't remember my hand exactly, but I know it was good enough to keep 7. Basically, he drew too many 3 drops and no City of Traitors or Ancient Tomb and I killed him before he could get set up.
R4 - Punishing Jund (3-0)
G1: My opponent is on the play. I knew what he was on from seeing him play earlier so I mulled my opener hoping to find an Inkmoth and pump spells. 6 is keepable, although no Inkmoth. He leads with DRS. I play Hierarch and cross my fingers because I don't have another land. He of course jams a turn 2 lili and the game is over before it starts.
G2: T2 kill with Daze backup. Sometimes this deck is so incredibly unfair.
G3: I keep a hand of StP, 2x Glistener, Hierarch, Berserk, Trop, Fetch. He leads with Badlands, Thoughtseize, taking one of my Glistener Elves. I draw Invigorate. It's worth noting that he took the Elf here because it leads me to believe he either doesn't have much removal, and/or his hand has too many high cost spells and he's hoping to scare me into playing the Hierarch and get himself an extra turn. I jam the Elf anyway and hope he doesn't have an abrupt decay. He plays a Verdant Catacombs and Lightning Bolts my Elf. I use Invigorate to save it. He fetches a Bayou and passes. I think fetching there was a mistake because by not having Red mana, I can rule out another bolt (he probably would have used it if he had it anyway, but this assures me he doesn't). Also, by not casting a spell, he is bluffing removal (and playing around Stifle), but I think he attempted to sell it too hard. I rip an Invigorate, like a pro ;), and combo kill him. His remaining hand was Sylvan Library, BBE, K. Command, and Lands. We discussed the bolt/fetch scenario and he agrees it was probably wrong to fetch around Stifle.
R5- Mentor Miracles (4-0)
G1: Opponent mulligans to 6 and bottoms the scry. I won the die roll and kept 7. As the games usually do, it became a long drawn out affair where I drew lots of Inkmoths and he slowly died to not finding enough Plows/Terminus.
G2: I kept a hand with only 1 infect creature. He STPs it on his turn, and I am left with only a Hierarch. Fortunately, his hand was pretty bad and I got a Pithing Needle on Top to keep it that way. I drew 2 more Hierarchs and bludgeoned him to death the hard way. He attempted to hard cast 2 Terminus but I had Spell Pierce and Force of Will for them. Hierarchs got there backed up by a Become Immense.
R6- Infect (5-0)
I was the lowest seed of the 5-0's so I got paired down was unable to double ID into top 8.
G1: I won the die roll and kept my 6. It had pump spells, creatures and a Brainstorm. I don't remember much of the specifics of the game, but I know at one point my opponent attacked with his Glistener Elf, I blocked with mine, he invigorated and went to damage. This is relevant because it told me that my opponent was unfamiliar with the mirror. A combination of Hierarch + Inkmoth beats eventually won the game for me.
G2: I boarded in the 4th Vines, 3x Plows, 2x K Grips, Flusterstorm and Teferi's Response, and took out both Berserks, an Invigorate, 3x FoW, 2x Daze. This matchup is a very attrition heavy game and I wanted to be the one with all the good Counterspells and Removal. Also, Teferi's Response is good if they try to Wasteland/Vines your Inkmoth (especially if they Crop Rotation for it). Anyway, I drew very well and was able to stick a Blighted Agent with a Hierarch and 5 turns later is was over. I talked with my opponent afterward and saw that he was not running the white version. I think in the mirror, the white cards can make a huge difference because having StP is so much better than the Crop Rotation package and Submerge.
R7- ID with Caleb Scherer (6-0-1)
Onto top 8!
Quarterfinals: Rematch vs. Miracles from R5.
G1: On the play I kept a decent hand with Hierarch, Elf and an Inkmoth. My opponent kept a hand that had was I assume was 2 StP and a Snapcaster Mage. I couldn't keep an Infect creature alive and my opponent got the Counterbalance/Top lock out to stall me until JTMS could lock it up.
G2: Opponent mulligans to 6. I also mulligan to 6. My scry reveals a Wasteland which I decide to keep. I lead on Inkmoth Nexus and pass the turn. My opponent correctly decides to lead on a basic Plains and passes back. I draw the Wasteland and cast a Blighted Agent. My opponent plays a Tundra and Plows my agent. The rest of the game played out with me drawing Inkmoths and playing defensively with Vines of Vastwood. At one point my opponent cast a Blood Moon, but I had a Krosan Grip and mana available so I floated and destroyed it after it resolved. Crop Rotation found Pendlehaven to prevent Izzet Staticaster from destroying me, and I won by inches.
G3: I kept a fast hand with 2x Invigorate, Vines, Glistener Elf, Fetch, Ponder, Brainstorm. I debated opening on Ponder but went with Glistener Elf as this could easily be a turn 2 kill on the draw if my opponent doesn't have StP. He of course does and I am forced to Ponder turn 2 to find a land. The rest of the game I tried desperately with a Brainstorm and Crop Rotation to find more creatures, but drew terribly and basically ended up with 5 pump spells in hand and no creatures or anti-hate cards (Needle or K. Grip) to get out from under the Top Lock. Possible I should have mulliganed this hand, but a land off the top on either the first or 2nd turn would have made it a much different game. Overall I drew pretty poorly, but maybe I could have mulliganed or played differently to play my best around it.
Final record (6-1-1) 5th place. Infect is awesome.
Congrats Zachary.
I'm playing with Infect for less than 3 months, it is like only 3 tournaments ( i'm married and have one children at home :P ).
My results is being OK with the deck. All the three tournaments i'm doing like X-1 and taking around 2nd to 5th places with this result.
I don't have played against mirror yet. What's the correct way to play mirror ? could you provide some tips ?
My experience is that it becomes a resource war. The resource that matters most is creatures. If you win the long fight over creatures with Infect, you'll win. Board out your Forces and Dazes. Bring in K. Grips and Plows if you have them. Trade your guys for theirs any chance you get (except Blighted Agent), and don't waste pump spells unless it kills them, or makes a Hierarch trade with their Infect creature. I haven't played the mirror a lot, but Blighted Agent seems like the most important thing, and the one you save your remaining counterspells and vines to protect. If you SB Spellskite (I don't, but some do) it's great in the mirror. Sylvan Library is also.
Some savage reads you've got there, Mr. Koch.
Edit: Reads on your opponents. The riskier plays do make for fantastic tournament report material though.
Last edited by Jesture; 10-14-2015 at 08:41 PM.
I have a doubt... How many cards do you side usually?
Let me explain: in some matchup I side in/out 9 or 10 cards (up to 13 vs. RG Lands), but I'm afraid to distort the deck's nature.
Some sideboarding plan for example...
vs. Miracles (with Mentors)
-3 Daze, -1 Ponder, -1 Blighted Agent, -1 Become Immense, -1 Berserk, -2 Noble Hierarch, -1 Wasteland
+3 StP, +1 Sylvan Library, +2 Pithing Needle, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Force of Will, +1 Flusterstorm
vs. D&T
-1 Ponder, -3 Force of Will, -1 Flusterstorm, -2 Noble Hierarch, -1 Become Immense, -1 Berserk, -1 Blighted Agent
+1 Sylvan Library, +3 StP, +1 Teferi’s Response, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Nature’s Claim, +2 Pithing Needle
vs. RG Lands
-1 Ponder, -3 Daze, -1 fetch, -2 Become Immense, -1 Blighted Agent, -2 Berserk, -2 Noble Hierarch, -1 Flusterstorm
+2 Pithing Needle, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Absolute Law, +3 StP, +1 Sylvan Library, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Nature’s Claim, +1 Teferi’s Response
vs. Canadian Threshold
-1 Ponder, -3 Daze (OtD), -3 Force of Will (OtP), -1 Crop Rotation, -2 Become Immense, -1 Blighted Agent, -1 Noble Hierarch
+1 Sylvan Library, +1 Absolute Law, +3 StP, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Teferi’s Response
Am I doing it wrong?
Agent is your best card against D&T so keep it in. Fow against miracles is very questionable.
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Your plan against D&T seems wrong to me, I would never side out Noble Hierarch, Berserk, or Blighted Agent.
I wouldn't side in StP either, are you going to plow his Mother of Runes on turn 1?
You mostly just ignore his creatures, protect your creatures against StP and Jitte, and that is how you win against D&T.
Good advice.
I never faced D&T yet (rarely I saw the deck in my meta) and I planned it on paper.
Thanks
I agree about not siding out any creatures or pump spells, but I actually like STP. I love how people can sideboard differently and still be successful. In one of Tom Ross's articles this year he says "Swords to Plowshares was great for me all weekend since I played a bunch of non-green creature decks throughout both tournaments. Death and Taxes showed up in high numbers, and it felt great to remove anything from Mother or Runes to Phyrexian Revoker to Mirran Crusader. I had enough sideboard cards to take out all of my counterspells, go up on removal and lands, and play well against their attempts to constrain my resources." I also like taking most/all counters out and bringing in quite a few cards, but I can see why some people don't like going about it that way.
In short, yes this looks very wrong. Sideboards are approximate, as I don't have your 75 for reference.
Going by match-up:
vs. Miracles (with Mentors): This plan looks best out of the ones you have listed here. My only concern is how strong the StP's are, as they play poorly into the CB lock and are realistically only hitting Monastery Mentor, which can still make a few 1/1 monks before you exile it. That said, I'm not really sure what else you'd keep in. Maybe a Daze or two on the play or Ponder as a generic blue cantrip.
-2 Daze, -1 Ponder, -1 Blighted Agent, -1 Berserk, -2 Noble Hierarch, -1 Wasteland
+1 StP, +1 Sylvan Library, +2 Pithing Needle, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Force of Will, +1 Flusterstorm
vs. D&T: I won't go into too much detail, as others have already commented on where/how this falls short. I would play something like
-2 Daze, -1 Flusterstorm, -1 Spell Pierce, -2 FoW, -1 Glistener Elf (They will never let the Elf through if they have the option)
+3 StP, +1 Teferi's Response, +1 Nature's Claim, +2 Pithing Needle
StP's are generally very good against DnT, as much of their hate against you is creature based. Teferi's Response will be an all-star against any Port/Wasteland deck, especially one without counter magic. I'd be wary of running the Grip, as it's very difficult to cast into Thalia, and Claim does the same thing for most intents and purposes. Needles have a couple of uses, but you'll mostly be using them to turn off Vials and shut down resolved Jittes.
vs. RG Lands: So this is an interesting and historically very difficult match-up. You have the option to either go for a fast combo, or try and slow the game down to a place where you can win the fair way. With your boarding plan, it seems as though you're evaluating cards in a vacuum as opposed to how they interact with your game plan and the rest of your deck. I'd recommend playing it faster, as R/G lands is fantastic at playing a later game.
-3 Daze, -1 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Stifle
+2 Rest in Peace, +1 Sylvan Library, +1 Nature's Claim, +1 Teferi's Response
Swords to Plowshares can come in, though it's a pretty niche card as it's only there to deal with rush Depths combo. In most situations, you'll have no lands and no permanents in play by the time they make a Marit Lage, so having 3 StP's floating around in the 60 is mostly going to gum up your draws.
-You can interrupt the Dark Depths combo by using Wasteland on the copied depths in response to the sacrifice trigger
-Main phase Vines of Vastwood gets around multiple Maze of Iths
vs. Canadian Threshold: Your habit of cutting Hierarchs and Blighted Agent is perplexing, to say the least. General rule is that you can board out Hierarchs in the face of board wipes (Golgari Charm, Terminus, etc.) and Blighted when the speed is essential, though I'd usually board out Inkmoth first.
-3 FoW, -2 Become Immense, -1 Stifle, then maybe cut a Daze OtD or something
+2 Rest in Peace, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Teferi's Response, +3 StP
Keep their board clear. Tempo decks are very good at keeping you off balance, but none of that means anything if they can't stick a threat and start a clock on you. It's very fortunate that Rest in Peace deals with Goose and Goyf very well, so don't hesitate to trade Elfs and StP's for Delvers 1 for 1. Make it a habit to board out FoW's against other tempo decks. The exception is if they have some spells that must be countered, though even then I'd only keep in a singleton, as the 1 for 2 card disadvantage really hurts in these match-ups.
Your worries of diluting the deck are very reasonable, I feel all of the plans you've listed here are too reactive and play to your opponent's weaknesses rather than your strengths. As some general advice, I'd pay more attention to a sideboard plan as opposed to just inserting your strongest cards and cutting your weakest ones. Make a habit of developing an overarching game plan, one that encompasses how you play the game, how you prepare for your post-board games, and how your game play differs with access to your sideboard.
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