Originally Posted by dte
Unable to read french...
I am playing 2 Hoofs and 1 Shaman of the Pack
Special Forces Combo Elves
I never tried this combination, but it seems pretty bad to me: your 3 potential targets can do only one thing: kill the opponent. And they only can do it if you have a proper board presence.
Ooze, WRP and Regal have a really different aim, they help you establishing board domination.
It does not mean that your configuration is bad, but it push you to always have the combo role, never the control one. I personally feel more comfortable with the opposite: control the game, and use your ability to combo if the gamestate allows you to do so safely or if you have more chances to lose by not doing so.
I know I'm pulling this out of context, but it made me lol. It's bad - it only lets you kill your opponent, lol.
Meh, the only time you cast NO is when you have a large enough board presence to make the mana needed. Sure, cornercases exist, but that's why I run Ruric Thar. That combination allows you to either outright kill your opponent or lock up the game to win it a few turns later. When I resolve NO, I want to make sure it counts.
The point wasn't about that. The point was that the dearth of application in the targets turns the tutors themselves into things that are largely usable only with an established board - Ooze, Ruric, WRP serve to establish you in the game, and WRP at least just wins after it has achieved control. That struggle is often what games are about, not so much the win condition.
Last edited by Zombie; 10-15-2015 at 10:51 AM.
+1
GSZ and NO are shortcuts into a solution.
Hoof is for instant winning but since Elves can face trouble, It's not bad to have more than one plan. Especially if the deck struggles with itself.
For instance, if I knew a Green creature able to get the rid of a permanent, I would play it MD as a NO target.
Sometimes you have to be the fastest as you can but in a big event you re more likely to face combo decks like storm of sneak and show, and if you have nothing but your Behemoth plan, I don't think things
Are going to end up well.
Anyone have experience running singletons like Terastodon, Woodfall Primus, Sylvan Primordial?
I'm guessing that Rec Sage does enough of an adequate job to combat enchantments and artifacts. Only creatures and lands are left as potentially problematic, and lands (I assume) is such a small case that it might not be worth it to cover. Although I do hear often enough on this forum about Glacial Chasm and such difficulties.
I'd be hard pressed to add more than 2 fatties in the main deck. Pretty sure I'll try out 1 Hoof and 1 Ruric. I really like having Ruric in there just because an early-as-possible NO can mean a win against a lot of decks.
As far as I know, DRS laughs at Glacial Chasm and I learnt it the hard way...
@dte, isn't 8 fetches a little light on DRS food?
There is more food for DRS with 8 fetches today than there was with 10 a month ago.
Dig is gone, our opponent's graveyard is our playground again (or we're playing against D&T and doing quite fine anyway).
So no, I didn't miss a 9th fetch. I'm actually thinking more and more about replacing the 8th I should admit.
We are playing almost the same mana base but IMHO you should not cut another fetch for a 2nd Pendelhaven (if it s what you re thinking about) because it would weaken you more than what a second Pendel could bring.
If I wanted to dominate the board, I would have chosen Death and Taxes. I want to kill my opponent at 2nd/3rd/4th turn - the faster, the better.
I have Ruric in my sideboard, I choose it when I play against combo, sometimes I play WRP instead of Shaman of the Pack when I know, that there is a lot of Delvers in the metagame.
Special Forces Combo Elves
Huh. Weird. I play this deck as a midrange-y board control deck with a GOTCHA combo finish if/when the opportunity arises. The T2 Glimpse wins are just gravy on the cake. I actually find playing this deck with a combo-focus can sometimes bite you in the ass.
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
Well you'll face great deceptions playing Elfball. You re not goldfishing, you have no countermagic to protect a combo...
Games can be very long with Elfball..
I don't think I'd describe this deck as elfball.
I know, I am playing this deck for 2-3 years and games can really be long, for sure.
And about goldfishing - I play 4 Nettles and 3 Birchlore rangers - that really helps!
Special Forces Combo Elves
A quick Google translate of dte tournament report
Hi, Postponement of early (it astonished me that I have the courage to make a full tonight). I played Elfball, and ended up winning the tournament of 145 players to take home 4 Jace and 4 tarmo after a long day. Despite the result, I have accumulated a quantity of missplay / impressive tactical errors. At the strategy level I'm quite pleased with myself, but at missplays not. Round 0, 1 missplay: I have not played for a few months (GP Lille), I just had the idea to test a shaman of the pack, had recovered a right out and had withdrawn a choke for. And I've never tested course the deck remained in a corner of my house. And sitting at home, it can not be easy to find (I have not yet reached the level of my parents, who have managed to lose a scaffold in their cellar - they asked me regularly if I had not lent a friend to find him before 3-4 years later). In short, Friday I finished the job really early, I put my hand on my deck easily mustache (TinFins Doomsday by side with the mustache deck I tested it) and I try my elf for a good quarter of an hour . I find it, I check that fetches are there (the misty are the only cards that I might want to play elsewhere). And Saturday so I find myself with a side that was like in Lille with one choke -1 Shaman of The Pack. I had forgotten that I had replaced Lille 4th decay by a second wise. No choke 4th or 4th decay so, I reduce the thorn of amethyst one and I remove the 2nd wise to add 3 cabal therapy (the reign of omnishow being finished, and having lots of therapy because I brought that both decks I wanted to play and qu'étonnament between tinfins Elfball and there is not much in common cards. And the map is justified anyway alone) and I keep the shaman, just to test for true (and because apart from the 4th cabal or a thorn, I have nothing else). The test result? it got me the air of a side of 14 cards
Spoiler
3 decay
3 choke
3 cabal
2 thoughtseize
1 rod
1 needle
1 thorn of amethyst
1 Shaman of the pack
Oh, and the MD, 61 cards, one all possible slots MD (craterhoof, regal, Ruric, packmaster, wise and ooze). Throughout the day, all of them will justify its place MD:
Spoiler
1x Birchlore Rangers
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Heritage Druid
3x Nettle Sentinel
4x Quirion Ranger
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Regal Force
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Wren's Run Packmaster
2x Bayou
Dryad Arbor 2x
2x Forest
4x Gaea's Cradle
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Pendelhaven
1x Taiga
1x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Glimpse of Nature
Green Sun's Zenith 4x
4x Natural Order
Round 1, BUG control, Mihailo
Toss him.
I realize that I'm facing BUG, I am delighted. I pick my Regal Force in full I am typing up to 7 mana, I still tell myself when it justifies its place in the first round over the second craterhoof that seems to make the unanimity among my colleagues glimpseurs.
She take his FoW (pitch Jace). I take quite expensive to blow Disfigure, SCM on difigure + block, etc ... and finally damnation.
And then I make a misplay unforgivable for an elf player. The biggest misplay of the day, this round 1 game 1. I do not even runs with my dryad quirion on table.
I obviously draws a NO to the next round while my opponent was naked. I will lose this game many lap later, leaving my opponent to 2.
First game and huge misplay, I think that contrary to what I thought, it's not elves exactly like the bike (in fact so, but I'm getting a little scared).
2 I will ask a packmaster, it will make the game alone.
The 3 + NO on Ruric ooze.
Round 2, Michael and D & T
A very nice guy, not ideal for him to take Elfball. He will end his 13th win and qualifying for the next day.
It starts with plain and MoR, I tell myself that even if I play like a dog, the god of pairing is squarely on my side (that, that will change soon).
T2 jitte he asks, I'll have both symbiote and quirion + + elf dryad, so it poses thalia just to be able to attack with an equipped Prog. I will ask a packmaster ==> win. To finish with a flourish, cradle craterhoof the final round (it was optional).
G2 mull it to 5. I would travel around glimpse of I finish with enough to win 15 times on table (craddle, 2 heritage, DRS symbiote / visio, a beast if my 6th ouvenirs are good). It raises the new flying Thalia, I'm not blunder (in fact I had never seen the card, I have not played since its release, but I knew there was a new rider suffused with flying more) . I have a hand with everything, it is full tap, I have lots of animals. I decide to do a GSZ 8 (by announcing to 8) and will look craterhoof the pose. My opponent stopped me, I paid only 9 mana. Second beautiful missplay. Fortunately I announced to 8. I wonder if reveins backwards, my opponent says I have cast the spell but I can do it in less. I say ok, I want to do it 3 to make wise break and play cannoniste NO. In fact we had misunderstood my opponent meant fetch a beast within mana, but still pay 9. Here I am less in agreement, called the judges, who will make a complete rewind.
So, NO-hoof live without frills, without GSZ box. And a warning.
And I say thin, I'm at 2/0 but making big missplay against two excellent MUs, it bodes ill for more ...
And then I would write tomorrow. In spoiler, large misplays less (though still remain two significant) but many significantly worse MUs.
it's ugly. I can see that Google translate has improved, but it is still really ugly. I can make a short version of the report in English, it will be better than that:
Round 1: BUG control
First game, Regal justify its place in the deck: I draw it with only 7 manas available, he have to force it. My elves die under removal one after another, disfigure, SCM on disfigure, etc..
I will lose this game 1 because I'm rusty and stupid and made the worst mistake an elf player can do, not returning my arbor with quirion in response to a damnation.
He play is, I said ok and looked at my board to put the creatures in the grave, and stared horrified.
The good point is that it will help me focuses later on.
G2, WRP takes it home.
G3, Ruric & Ooze.
Round 2: D&T
It's D&T, that's almost sums it up. First game win throught an early WRP, second via glimpse.
Round 3: UG infect.
G1: I mull at 5, die fast.
G2, early NO on Ruric
G3, needle on nexus T1 (her first turn was nexus), Thorn of amethyst on turn 2, random creatures T3 to win via choke on T4.
Round 4: RGb lands.
Terrible match.
G1, he started, put grove + mox, entomb P Fire, recover it. Soon after there will be tabernacle. I struggle during maybe 12 turns thanks to ooze before scooping, to see which version he's playing. And it's a terrible one: to the classic awful package of RG lands, he decide to sacrifice some speed to have more control elements, and add cards like smallpox and devastating dreams.
G2, a quick NO into Ruric, while he had the tabernacle + p fire online
G3, he opens with tabernacle, 2nd turn he play urbog and sphere of resistance. I will win this one through ooze in the additional turns. After a really hard fight.
Ronde 5 shardless.
An easy one.
G1 I win, he fow a glimpse to take NO-hoof (first game of the tournament a NO for hoof allow me to win. Despite 4 NOs MD I think I won only maybe two games with that out of 8+3 matches).
G2, I win thanks to a combination of choke, DRS & Ooze. My opponent is whinning because I killed him while being at only one life and he had a strix (his mistake to not have side it out). I had choke, DRS, 2 untappers, a full grave, 2 NO + GSZ +WRP in hand. It never was as close as he thought.
Ronde 6 miracle UWR.
G1 I thought I would have him, as he have no hand, no SDT, and I have Ruric. Unfortunately, he topdecks terminus. Then monastery mentor & SFM.
G2 I thought I would have him again, with a needle on top (CB on his side), no hand again, WS+DRS on my side + a good hand. I play a DRS to check the top (I really want to play the visionary), he blind reveals Wear//Tear. What???? I guess it's the only card in his deck which could have blown me up. It did. Next turn I lose my needle, and will never reover from CB top.
Round 7 miracle UWR.
G1 I take a fast terminus followed by a very fast EtA.
G2 he cb/top, I play Sage, he fow. I'm widely grinning with my 2 decay and choke.
G3, Pendle takes it home.
Round 8, UWR miracle.
ID
1/4, Bant.
G1, I chose to start and T2 Glimpse.
G2, I glimpse T3. He answers with humility. I answer with choke, which will prevent him to play his ee + activation before dying.
1/2 UWR miracle (the one which bested me earlier)
G1 I win. Do not remember exactly.
G2 I lose because I'm dumb. With Rod versus jitte on the table, I draw a needle. I decide to play safe against wear/tear, play needle and name SDT. Then wear/Tear and death.
G3, choke helped.
Finale UWR miracle
Lost G1 because I stupidly played a NO Ruric into SCM/StP
Won G2 mainly thanks to choke and ooze, after a very long time facing few angels (that he kept as blockers), CB ,...
At one point I play NO into Symbiote, as WRP, hoof, ooze, sage,... are all exiled.
G3 kill T2 with quirion ranger. (death match :) )
That's it. 4 tarmo and 4 Jace (mindscultor) to take home, and a good long day of playing magic. My brain is melted, but it was worth it, and I met plenty of very nice people.
If you have any comments (even and especially on the language, as the goal of this post is to do a better job than google translate, and I really need to improve my English writing skills), feel free!
Globally, I won very few games by comboing out. Maybe one fifth of the games. The other I grinded them out. I often finished games with a couple of NO in hand. I didn't often cast the card, I always preferred to keep it in hand.
Sorry bout that, we still call it this way in France (at least in Paris), most of the time. ;)
Same. Elves occupies the same metagame slot as Jund, Shardless and Nic Fit - a fair deck that eats other fair decks (and in Nic Fit's case, eats fair decks made to eat other fair decks - Elves and NicFit are the apex predators of the midrange spectrum). It can step foot into the combo space but is kind of subpar as a pure combo deck - the glass cannon decks are faster, TES and Reanimator are faster and incorporate disruption, and ANT + Show and Derp decks are just as fast and incorporate disruption.
Elves is the only Combo-control-aggro-prison deck of the format (or was. During the DTT era I enjoyed to play a bit prison with 3 thorn + 4 choke. now it's gone).
It isn't a very good deck in neither of these roles. (aggro with bunch of 1/1, control without counters, prison with few pieces, slow combo without disruption).
If you always want to play the combo role, play storm, it's much more fun for the combo part.
Elfball is a good deck if what you like is to switch gears.
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