[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I tend to disagree with manipulato as I've been playing Stifle without bolt with substantial results since UG Madness was a thing. When I play BUG Delver, I play stifles main with 3 Thoughtseize in the board. I like the build and play it fairly often.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[ironclad8690]

There is certainly a time and place for both versions. For example, right now there is so much shardless bug and miracles online I am actually kind of wishing I still had access to the stifle version. I didnt think about it before but stifle has a ton of applications in the shardless bug matchup:

1. Fetchlands
2. Ancestral vision cast trigger when last counter is removed (and that card is the primary reason we seem to lose to them)
3. Cascade trigger
4. Planeswalkers abilities

I was doing pretty well vs them when I was playing the stifle version. Now with the hymn version I am 0-3 in matches.

[Bkraist]

Thank you both for your experience and opinions.
While, in a perfect world, I would play rug, I feel the current larger meta is not a place for it as well as abrupt helps a ton in matchups like miracles etc. I do like divert and want to fit it in my 75 somewhere.

I do get why specific discard post board will be very beneficial, but too much or random discard may not be helpful when focused on the tempo plan.

[KobeBryan]

Thank you both for your experience and opinions.
While, in a perfect world, I would play rug, I feel the current larger meta is not a place for it as well as abrupt helps a ton in matchups like miracles etc. I do like divert and want to fit it in my 75 somewhere.

I do get why specific discard post board will be very beneficial, but too much or random discard may not be helpful when focused on the tempo plan.

if you want to play divert, you need to go the stifle route since you need to keep the lands low.

[btm10]

if you want to play divert, you need to go the stifle route since you need to keep the lands low.

You absolutely do not. Both players will be land-light in the mirror, and constricting Shardless' mana is totally doable with Wasteland and Hymn.

[ironclad8690]

Played in an 8 Man today:

Elves: 2-1 (Julian23)

Game 1: I get stuck on lands and barely get to remove anything an he goes turbo and kills me easily.
In: 3 Disfigure, 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Dismember, 1 Maelstrom Pulse
Out: 4 Daze, 4 Hymn to Tourach, 1 Tarmogoyf
Game 2: I get a gnarly tempo start with t1 DRS t2 Disfigure wasteland, t3 disfigure + Bob, draw into removal for the rest of the game and close it up with delvers.
Game 3: I think he keeps a slow hand, and I am able to disfigure/abrupt decay everything while my delvers get in for eventual lethal. This matchup gets so rediculously better post board.

Miracles: 0-2

Game 1: I just eventually lose. He legitimately ginds me out, not much else to say.
In: 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Null Rod, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Dread of Night, 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Vendilion Clique, 1 Maelstrom Pulse, 2 Spell Pierce
Out: 4 Hymn to Tourach, 4 Daze, 2 Deathrite Shaman
Game 2: I can't stop Jace from hitting the table with only goyf on my side of the board, and I eventually lose again. You know how it goes vs Miracles.

I don't know if I am just approaching Miracles incorrectly or what, but I am losing way more than I feel like I should be vs them. I might switch over to shardless if it keeps up, I think they have better game vs the menace. If that fails, there's always 12 post. I guess.

Video for Miracles match

[KobeBryan]

You absolutely do not. Both players will be land-light in the mirror, and constricting Shardless' mana is totally doable with Wasteland and Hymn.

So you will be playing a divert build with hymn. Not going to work when one strategy is proactive and the other is reactive.

[Bkraist]

So you will be playing a divert build with hymn. Not going to work when one strategy is proactive and the other is reactive.

Personally, i will not be playing both together as I agree with you. I will be playing 4 stifle and zero discard maindeck with divert Sb

[iostream]

So you will be playing a divert build with hymn. Not going to work when one strategy is proactive and the other is reactive.

? There have even been successful lists that have played both Stifle and Hymn together, which is even more of a "nonbo" in theory than Divert and Hymn. The impact of any potential anti-synergy is highly overstated given how powerful and flexible both effects are. It just depends what kind of answers you want to have.

[KobeBryan]

? There have even been successful lists that have played both Stifle and Hymn together, which is even more of a "nonbo" in theory than Divert and Hymn. The impact of any potential anti-synergy is highly overstated given how powerful and flexible both effects are. It just depends what kind of answers you want to have.

Show me a list with both.

[ironclad8690]

Show me a list with both.

Naohiro Takahashi playing Team America
Position: 8 out of 101, Date: 04/10/2015
Deck Name: BUG

2 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

1 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder

1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Spell Pierce
2 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Envelop
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Engineered Plague
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Garruk Relentless

Here is the whole list of team america decks with both

[Svyelunite]

Naohiro Takahashi playing Team America
Position: 8 out of 101, Date: 04/10/2015
Deck Name: BUG

2 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

1 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder

1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Spell Pierce
2 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Envelop
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Engineered Plague
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Garruk Relentless

Here is the whole list of team america decks with both

Did he seriously play a 62 card MD?

[ironclad8690]

So here's what I am on now:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Dark Confidant

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand

Sideboard:
3 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Envelop
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

I have been winning against Miracles finally (I was playing Bob Huang's list before, which has great game vs other delver decks and fair non blue decks, but I wanted to hedge against Miracles) with the following board plan:

In: 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Envelop (Terminus), 1 Null Rod, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Vendilion Clique, 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Out: 4 Daze, 1 Hymn to Tourach, 1 Deathrite Shaman

I think bob is too good not to play, at least on MODO where miracles are everywhere.

[Manipulato]

So here's what I am on now:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Dark Confidant

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand

Sideboard:
3 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Envelop
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

I have been winning against Miracles finally (I was playing Bob Huang's list before, which has great game vs other delver decks and fair non blue decks, but I wanted to hedge against Miracles) with the following board plan:

In: 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Envelop (Terminus), 1 Null Rod, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Vendilion Clique, 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Out: 4 Daze, 1 Hymn to Tourach, 1 Deathrite Shaman

I think bob is too good not to play, at least on MODO where miracles are everywhere.

Your finally playing my list

[ironclad8690]

@ Manip haha that's funny, did you post it on here?

Here is a good video of a miracles match where I admittedly got pretty lucky, but am able to walk away with game 3 by the skin of my teeth.

[Manipulato]

@ Manip haha that's funny, did you post it on here?

Here is a good video of a miracles match where I admittedly got pretty lucky, but am able to walk away with game 3 by the skin of my teeth.

I have a small sideboarding advice for you, I usually board out 1 Bayou & sometimes 1 Wasteland too because the game will go long & they have no mana denial, helps not flooding out. I do this against most non-wasteland decks, especially the 1 Bayou.

Edit: I think it's wrong from the Miracles player side to bring in the Pyroblast & REB, it's a common mistake from lower experienced Miracle pilots. We just Delver, Brainstorm & Ponder which are not that super important targets or something they're deck cannot handle anyways. Andrea Mengucci & Bob Huang see it the same way...

[Whitefaces]

I have a small sideboarding advice for you, I usually board out 1 Bayou & sometimes 1 Wasteland too because the game will go long & they have no mana denial, helps not flooding out. I do this against most non-wasteland decks, especially the 1 Bayou.

Edit: I think it's wrong from the Miracles player side to bring in the Pyroblast & REB, it's a common mistake from lower experienced Miracle pilots. We just Delver, Brainstorm & Ponder which are not that super important targets or something they're deck cannot handle anyways. Andrea Mengucci & Bob Huang see it the same way...

Agree with you on the blasts. Even vs stifle versions of delver when I'm playing Miracles I don't bring them in, too narrow.

I think I'd bring out a second Hymn over the first DRS. He combats Snapcaster and is another threat that puts the game away. It also allows for a T2 Lili which can be backbreaking.

[Manipulato]

Short report from my monthly locals today. I finished super bad but wanted to share this.

Burn: 0:2
Played bad in G1 & G2 was super close (1st time losing to burn, normally a easy MU in my experience)

Elves: 2:0
G1 he screwed after a Wasteland & G2 I had lots of SB goodies

White Weenie : 2:0
Double Delver finished G1 & Dread of Night + Golgari Charm destroyed him G2. Had lots of pressure in both games.

UWR Blade: 1:2
G1 he had better topdecks than me after a material war, G2 I controled everything with Needle, Null Rod, Lili & Library. G3 I got Blood Mooned T4 while taped out because I had to Charm the T3 TNN. Sadly sidenote: I had Pierce for his Blood Moon in hand but my only open land was Wasteland

Elves: 0:2
Played not optimal in both games & drew no SB goodies in G2. Double Delver were one turn to slow.

Overall the bad result came from not optimal playing, difficult MU's like Elves & UWR Blade.
Bobi underperformed today because he got sworded immediatly or I had better things to cast. The SB was solid exept that a 2nd Cage or a 1off Deluge would have been good.

Played the traditional Hymn /Lili build with 2 Bobis.
Sideboard was:
2 Golgari Charm
2 Disfigure
2 Spell Pierce
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dread of Night
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Murderous Cut
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library

Greetings

[KobeBryan]

Short report from my monthly locals today. I finished super bad but wanted to share this.

Burn: 0:2
Played bad in G1 & G2 was super close (1st time losing to burn, normally a easy MU in my experience)

Elves: 2:0
G1 he screwed after a Wasteland & G2 I had lots of SB goodies

White Weenie : 2:0
Double Delver finished G1 & Dread of Night + Golgari Charm destroyed him G2. Had lots of pressure in both games.

UWR Blade: 1:2
G1 he had better topdecks than me after a material war, G2 I controled everything with Needle, Null Rod, Lili & Library. G3 I got Blood Mooned T4 while taped out because I had to Charm the T3 TNN. Sadly sidenote: I had Pierce for his Blood Moon in hand but my only open land was Wasteland

Elves: 0:2
Played not optimal in both games & drew no SB goodies in G2. Double Delver were one turn to slow.

Overall the bad result came from not optimal playing, difficult MU's like Elves & UWR Blade.
Bobi underperformed today because he got sworded immediatly or I had better things to cast. The SB was solid exept that a 2nd Cage or a 1off Deluge would have been good.

Played the traditional Hymn /Lili build with 2 Bobis.
Sideboard was:
2 Golgari Charm
2 Disfigure
2 Spell Pierce
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dread of Night
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Murderous Cut
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library

Greetings

You can't say Bob underperformed. He ate some crucial removals. The opponent was scared of it

[Manipulato]

You can't say Bob underperformed. He ate some crucial removals. The opponent was scared of it

Did you played that turney or I? I can say that because he got plowed 1 time and the other times I had better things to cast...