I don't have infinite experience with the matchup, but my observations are such:
Don't try to win the grind game. If you get there and you are okay shape, it might go well, but you'd rather not do that.
Your first-third turns often decide the match.
A strong 5 is better than an average 7 (you have a bunch of borderline dead stuff)
Prioritize shutting off the graveyard. That usually means zenithing for DRS ASAP or for scooze when you have the mana to play through pfire.
3/3 ooze + chalice is really strong against them.
Natural comboes happen, and sometimes you can't do anything about it. So far i think it is fine to just not fear them too much.
I don't think I'd keep a 7 or 6 without a chalice/zenith. It feels like you have this little window to land disruption and pressure them with it, beyond that you get into this territory where they can stop basically anything you do.
The knight is insane in this matchup. All the text on the card is super important.
Wastelands are unsurprisingly good against them. Sometimes you can shut them off colored mana, sometimes you can disrupt mari lage, other times you just waste a maze and get in for 10+.
I have 0 sideboard cards for them, and there isn't a great way to fix that, yet.
the handful of matches ive played against them involved a chalice on 1 then riding an ooze or knight for a while. eat their loam, decay their enchant if it landed before the chalice, and they cant outpace your lands, but it seems like a match up where whoever draws better wins.
Is Leyline not that great here? I feel like forcing them to delay their recursion engine is pretty strong. Sure they are likely bringing in Grips for the Chalices, but is it worth it to stretch their targets out on it? I'd likely still rather have that if there's filler we want to pull (though I can't really think of too much, I could see trimming a P-Fire and a Decay maybe, but I haven't played that matchup enough).Originally Posted by apocolyps6
Ran with this at a GPT on Saturday, 6 rounds. Ended 4-2, losing to Jund and Burn, while Beating Dredge, RUG Delver, Miracles, and DnT. Blue matchups felt great as always. I played the version with Dark Depths combo , I really liked it and I think I'll continue playing it as the ability to just win out of nowhere punishes so many decks. Being able to fetch up one of the pieces during a ground stalemate makes Knight feel even better. The trade off is that yes, there are less colored sources, which really hurts with regards to Liliana, as BB is actually pretty stretching on the mana base, plus the fact that DD is another land like Maze that doesn't tap for mana, requiring a cut of a non-land spell to fit it in correctly.
SB Felt great, this is what I'm pretty much going to be on for the GP. Only real question is if I want something better to deal with Shardless, as I feel that is the only blue deck where we're slightly unfavored.
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Thalia
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Slaughter Games
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Choke
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thoughtseize
1 Containment Priest
You are right. if I was playing Leylines they would be great here.
I have not gotten a chance to sit down and do some serious testing in this meta, so my decklist is a bit outdated, but it is in my sig.
I have ~9 cards that I would like to take out. It isn't the end of the world tho because the cards that are good against them are good enough that you can draw all the pfires and teegs you want and it isn't too bad
What do you bring Ajani Vengeant in against?
I think I'll try out Garruk, seems solid. :)
Hi guys,
I played 4c loam at Eternal Extravaganza three in Pennsylvania last weekend and finished 27th out of 310 or so people.
The deck felt super strong and I was very happy with the sideboard.
My list and sideboard was very close to Johannes' from the most recent MKM.
I'll try and post a list and tournament report later.
Looking forward to reading your report and congrats on the great finish! Curious to see what your SB was, is there anything specific you'd change?
Played the monthly this weekend, did well so here is a small report.
Main list was same as Johannes -1 Bayou +1 Scrubland(I really have to buy the 2nd Bayou ffs)
SB:
2 Leyline
2 Thalia
2 Golgari Charm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Containment Priest
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Canonist
1 Slaughter Games
R1 Goblins 2-0
R2 Deathblade 2-0
R3 BUG Delver(Anglers) 1-2 Lost 1st Game to Angler and 3rd Game to having 2 Scrublands instead of 2 Bayous
R4 Miracles (2 Mentors+2 Jace +1 Entreat) 2-1 Lost first game to CB+Top+Jace, won others with the beats(Garruk is a beast)
R5 ID
TOP8
Burn 2-1(Conceded to him so he can try a shot to won the whole thing due to qualifications, I am already qualified)
Really happy with the deck, probably changing 1/2 cards in the sideboard for next weekend but still not sure which.
PS. He lost to belcher next round
Dear Man in 27th,
Grats on your finish.
Sincerely,
Man in 28th
Only because we convinced you at the last second to take that pointless slaughter games out of there.....
Payback for all your clique comments.... : )
Is anyone running the burning wish version anymore to any amount of success?
Congrats on your finish - out of curiosity what parts of the SB did you find the best and likewise, the worst?
You mentioned Garruk did very well for you? Was that only in the miracles matchup? Did you board it in against other decks?
Brought it against Goblins(just to see how it behaves) and act as a removal for the kill, probably not worth it in the MU.
Against Deathblade didn't draw it but would bring it everytime.
Against miracles was awesome with the never ending stream of wolves.
Thinking on cutting slaughter games but still not sure for what. Almost never cast it/bring it.
Still thinking if toxic deluge+pulse is worth it, maybe swap the pulse for the 4th decay.
I just started playing with Pulse, so I can't really comment on it much but I really quite like the Toxic Deluge. Great against Young Pyromancer, Elves, DnT, I bring it in against a variety of different decks, so I'm a fan.
I've also cut my slaughter games completely, no need with OmniTell out of the format IMO. Upped the Thalia count to 2 and kept in one Canonist for Storm/Elves/Infect, though not sure if it's needed anymore. Elves is a tough matchup for me though and I'm still new with the deck, so I have a few extra slots dedicated to that matchup but those cards are also usable against a few other decks as well (thankfully).
What do you guys do against Burn? I've been play testing that matchup lately as I was told it was tough and I just get beaten into the ground. I can interact and keep their creatures off the board but getting bolted in the face once or twice a turn realllllyyyyy sucks. There doesn't seem to be much I can do about it either, unless they just brick on every draw with lands. Thoughts or suggestions?
Burn is a hard one, If you can stick Chalice early enough then you slow them way down but they can still just blow you out of nowhere, you need chalice + a clock. Ooze is a pretty good one if a few guys have hit the bin.What do you guys do against Burn? I've been play testing that matchup lately as I was told it was tough and I just get beaten into the ground. I can interact and keep their creatures off the board but getting bolted in the face once or twice a turn realllllyyyyy sucks. There doesn't seem to be much I can do about it either, unless they just brick on every draw with lands. Thoughts or suggestions?
Because I'm not getting to play enough paper legacy, I picked up everything but the wastelands and lilis on magic online last night. played a couple practice games running Ghost Q as a wasteland sub and that was pretty disappointing.
Getting to meet jellydonut was awesome. Just sayin'.
I wound up running Maverick due to familiarity. The room was definitely ripe for Aggro Loam. Guess I'll have to playtest and figure this deck out.
I talked with @iamajellydonut about how this deck feels like it lacks threats. I talked to him about making it seem more Jund-y. I don't need the discard. But I need something to push it over the top in the threat department. I like the concept of running 3-4 BBE, but god knows what you cut to make room. The idea of Confidants, Knights, Lili, BBE, Sylvan, Decay, Pfires engine is insane. The downside of her is potentially cascading into garbage like chalice or mox D.
Sounds like you should Just Play JundTM.
I don't think Bloodbraid Elf works in an Aggro Loam shell because as you pointed out, you will be Cascading into a lot of nonsense. I'd sooner try Huntmaster of the Fells since a Wolf and 2 life is probably better than your average Cascade.
What you're thinking of sounds to me like a Jund deck splashing White for Knights and some sideboard cards. I have sketched this out before and the mana looks prohibitively bad to me, even with Deathrites. It looks like it needs Moxes and Loams just for the mana to function, and then you have a hard time just playing 60-61 cards too.
On this note, the best joke of the entire night was finding myself sitting across from Burn in round five after assuring you that Burn's presence would be a non-issue after the first few pairings.
p.s. Don't rain on my Bloodbraid parade, Seraphix. You know you wanna cascade...
BBE into chalice/mox seems disappointing to say the least
Or GSZ. BBE has no place in this deck IMO...
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