As a BUG Delver player, Jace is the scariest card from Miracles. Please continue to SB them out.Originally Posted by Poron
Not to be rude but i have no other way to say this. I stopped listening. It is a mistake to cut Jace. Plain and simple. Im not going to bother going in to every reason why because including Jace is a no brainer. If you cut Jace you are playing Miracles wrong.
I believe this is an apropos time to say the following: "I can't even right now." RIP.
In regards to Legacy:
more than an Entreat for 3 Angels at the end of your turn?
Anyway: everyone was saying this also before GP Lille where Bonanni won without a Jace MD as well.
I still don't think we are out of the Blast/Pierce/Stifle nightmare.. and that's necessary for Jace to shine.
It's not that we are playing lands instead of Jace, in this moment I am playing Rebs, should I fell I want more win conditions I will add 2 Cliques/Monks and 1 land (Karakas in case of Cliques).
Anyway: we're talking about the veeery same 75. Look at Philipp. He plays blasts sb, I play them MD.
He plays Cliques SB, I do as well and in case I'll just switch them MD.
It's more a matter of reducing the variance through more consistency probably..
Stifle doesn't counter Jace.
He counters the fetchlands needed to reach 5,6 lands (4 + plus security mana) to cast it. It also counter its ultimate..
In a world of Spell Pierce mana denial is veeery relevant. Monk is there almost just for Pierces.
If you notice in every non blue matchup Entreat is always better.
That's just not true. Miracles is not a scary deck without JTMS. I know that you have the right to your opinion, but it is a very bad position which is pretty handily defeated. Many of your supporting points seem to either be contrived or exaggerated. The water just doesn't hold.
Please stop posting. It's misinformation like this that causes confusion.
Yes he won a GP without running Jace. But if you knew how to play Miracles you would realize the deck list he ran was a very different form. He ran daze and 4 mentor main deck trying to tempo out his opponent. This was also only done for a very short time before the Dig banning. As soon as Dig was banned this version died.
Jace is more important than your seem to realize. He isn't just a win con. He is a Brainstorm. Which allows you to reset your beloved Entreat the Angels sitting in your hand back on top of your deck. He is bounce which gives creature removal and sets up said creature to be countered by Counterbalance.
If you are so worried about REB effects why play blue at all? How does Miracles consistently hit top 8s if REB kills the deck. How is Jace played in all current forms of Miracles if it loses to REB?
REB effects are 1 mana. The easiest thing for Miracles to deal with if Counterbalance is in play.
Poron seriously, stop being a troll.
Mentor miracles didn't died after banhammer takes dig, just it's not as popular as classical miracles (as always..)
Mentor Miracle did top 8 at MKM Series Prague with Alessandro Portaro (ITA), with 4 mentor, 4 daze, 2 jace TMS, 2 entreat the angel and only one snapcaster mage.
uh..., are we ready to move on? Cause there's a GP looming, I don't know about you but I don't have time for irrelevant noise.
Like I said, my focus is on Schoenegger's latest article, specifically the SB choice.
The 6 cards 3 x flusterstorm and 3 x Red Blast effect that don't interact with Sneak Attack and fighting Liliana on the stack. If you were to run these 6 cards in the SB, how confident are you, with whatever version of Miracles you're running?
Another topic is the Infect MU.
Come on people, take it more seriously. No, I don't want to run the Peacekeepr route.
opinions.
If I will find my version to lack Brainstorm effects, I will play Jace.
For now, I'm fine with my 7 with double Entreat (1+1).
We'll see later if I was right or wrong.
Anyway guys you are all aggressive and arguing with me because I disagree on a mere 10% of the deck.
What do we have to do, agree on very very each card?
We start telling each other how clever we all are and how cool is to agree with each other?
There is youporn for that..
Only starting into testing this version, but some thoughts.
The decks plan for Liliana seems to be to let her resolve and fight her with creatures, as he goes from 5 + 1 entreat maindeck up to 8 + 1 entreat postboard, this seems like a reasonable approach and active liliana isn't even that backbreaking. Mentor also does a lot to completly blank her.
Not countering Sneak Attack seems slightly more problematic, but i guess that's what the Containment Priest sideboard is for. I do prefer the 2nd Containment Priest over the 1of Surgical Extraction i think.
Infect matchup is one where i'm really unsure how to sideboard correctly at the moment (Tons of great to okay cards in the board, not sure what to cut. Flusterstorm, Staticaster, Clique, Wear/Tear and REB all seem reasonable. Jaces, Councils and Mentors seem like natural cuts?! but beyond that you still have more potential board-ins than board-outs)
, but the Flusterstorms definitly perform really well there and the Staticasters were insane, even so much that i wanted a 2nd for Infect and Death & Taxes, which are both fairly popular locally for me. I think if the meta filled with these decks 2 Staticasters might be reasonable.
Also what are your sideboard plans for RUG Delver and UWR Delver/Stoneblade with this version?
Liliana
Letting her resolve is fine if your 75 has Venser and/or Council. Active Liliana isn't backbreaking if you have an active SDT. If you're under null rod/needle, an active Liliana would force you to play whatever spell you have, which could be a problem. Mentor as a top-deck after Liliana had destroyed your hand isn't that great. Again Mentor would also work if you have an active SDT. Sure, everyone knows you want to get value when you slam Mentor onto the table, but Liliana minimize that. I'm not too thrilled about using Entreat as a way to fight Liliana. More often than not, Entreat doesn't survive the early discard, Or, the null rod/needle forces you to Entreat on your own turn, then the Liliana player would just Toxic Deluge them away.
Sneak Attack
Nah, you can't change surgical with something slower. That RiP and Surgical in the SB are meant for speed and powerful graveyard hate. Going from Surgical to Priest would make the graveyard hate slower. I'm sure that surgical is a tested choice of weapon, along with the 1 Priest and 1 RiP. I've done something similar in the past.
Infect
Even if your SB's correct, I don't think people understand this MU. Infect can be very, very fast, as in explosive opening. Even if you survive the early game, you cannot keep up with Infect player's demand, asking you to find removal/answer almost every turn. Hence, Staticaster can sometimes just be too slow in your opening hand, even if you do get to play it and survive Daze, it is still unclear as to how close you're toward stabilizing.
I agree on the first part, your initial challenge is to survive their "delver draw" of cheap threat + counter backup. But once you accomplish that, the games usually become much more grindy where they keep presenting you with infect threats, especially Inkmoth Nexus, and you have to constantly dig for more StPs etc. to keep answering them. In this stage of the game Staticaster just seems like the best thing you could possibly play. Just like CBTop forever gives you stack-based inevitability, Staticaster gives you board-based inevitability, which is exactly what you need to close out these games in the grindy stage.
This is just me and my personal play style. But ive never been a fan of silver bullets in the side board. Having only 1 of a key card used to stop something as powerful as Sneak Attack seems risky to me. Aka 1 Containment Priest (just an example mind you)
Can someone explain to me why this acceptable?
The sideboard im currently thinking of running is
3 REB effects
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Blood moon
2 Wear/Tear
2 Rest in Peace
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
Thoughts on this board set up?
I must be misinformed. I was quoting mtg top 8. The last time a Mentor Miracles hit top 8 was 9/23 and included Dig.
http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=242&meta=39&f=LE
Can you list the source you use/follow so i can as well?
He means this list. The list above it also includes 2 Mentors.
I could gather some cards that could be a start on the Miracles race for myself, this is what I got so far:
Yes, I know I need a Volcanic in place of the Vents and at least another Tundra in place of the Fountain, and even a third one in place of the Plateau (which is there in place of a basic Mountain), but this is as good as it gets for me atm. Any advice on my sideboard or the 75 in general? It's not a GP sideboard (I know that), as my local metagame is not so wide (and there's not so much legacy going on in terms of sanctioned events). There are mostly Storm ANT/TES/Tin-Fins, Elves, Miracles, Lands, D&T and Dark depths combo in the form of Loam-Pox/Junk/TurboDepths. There are occasionaly a Painter servant and a Shardless BUG/BUG Delver.1CMC: 17
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
3x Swords to Plowshares
1x Pyroblast
1x Spell Snare
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2CMC: 8
4x Counterbalance
2x Counterspell
2x Snapcaster Mage
3CMC: 4
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Entreat the Angels
1x Council's Judgment
4CMC: 3
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
5CMC: 4
4x Force of Will
6CMC: 3
3x Terminus
Lands:
4x Flooded Strand
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
2x Arid Mesa
1x Plateau
1x Tundra
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Steam Vents
1x Karakas
4x Island
2x Plains
Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
2x Flusterstorm
2x Pyroblast
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Pyroclasm
2x Wear // Tear
1x Sulfur Elemental
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Submerge
1x Terminus
I stand corrected. I must've missed that one. My apologies.
With regards to the idea of having singletons in the sideboard I think Philipp Schönegger put it best in his last article, "Having one of the highest digging powers in the format, the highest if you take the average time played each game, enables you to also reliably find certain silver bullets."
I think your sideboard is fine, but if you read the comments of that article, I asked about why Blood Moon wasn't in the sideboard. The response I got was that Blood Moon, while some of the time will just win you the game on the spot, other times it will just be a sub-optimal to almost useless card. The spots Blood Moon takes in the board can better be utilized with cards that perform better in the majority of matches. I personally don't have a problem with double up on some of the spell like containment priest and wear/tear if you expecting to use them frequently in your meta, however I think in an open meta the singleton approach can give you a greater match up against a wider range of decks.
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