[Primer] R/G Lands

[barcode]

I love that your Porting his lands and he is not using them to activate his Vaults even though he plans to use them. Not the most on the ball player ever.

Game 2, well played. A pleasure to watch.

I was paired against a burn player one FNM and was porting his single mountain in his upkeep. Then he made a second land drop. I didn't have my combo online but I was digging hard. Continued to port both of his lands. I make Marit Lage and he dies and flops his hand on the table in disgust: Price of Progress, Price of Progress and sorceries.

I reminded him how instants work after the match.

[hyp3r1on]

I was paired against a burn player one FNM and was porting his single mountain in his upkeep. Then he made a second land drop. I didn't have my combo online but I was digging hard. Continued to port both of his lands. I make Marit Lage and he dies and flops his hand on the table in disgust: Price of Progress, Price of Progress and sorceries.

I reminded him how instants work after the match.

I once was using a German Glacial Chasm against a burn player. Had no way to infinitely loop it at the moment. He asked me what it did. I say "cumulative upkeep 2 life, I can't attack. Prevent all damage". He snap concedes and says "well I guess I have no way to win".

Also, I'm a strong advocate of never playing more than 3 copies of Dark Depths. It's such a terrible draw without a stage and has no added utility unlike thespian's stage. Then again I have way more experience playing with RUG Lands.

[gigapatrick]

I love that your Porting his lands and he is not using them to activate his Vaults even though he plans to use them. Not the most on the ball player ever.

Game 2, well played. A pleasure to watch.

Yeah, game two felt tough to me. I think I could have taken a safer line once or twice, but I opted for the high-risk high-reward play at end by Gambling for K-Grip. Maybe I should have tried to set up a more stable lock, but I didn't want to give him any more time to find a way out.

[barcode]

Also, I'm a strong advocate of never playing more than 3 copies of Dark Depths. It's such a terrible draw without a stage and has no added utility unlike thespian's stage

Completely agree. I've only played 3. Tried the fourth in the board once but never wanted to bring it in.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Picked up my Judge 2010 Wastelands this week. They are really really nice.

Cmon dice, don't leave us hanging. Show the goods

[Admiral Nobeard]

Also, I'm a strong advocate of never playing more than 3 copies of Dark Depths. It's such a terrible draw without a stage and has no added utility unlike thespian's stage. Then again I have way more experience playing with RUG Lands.

I've cut my list down to only running two, just in case, and slotting in Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Riftstone Portal for access to mana at all times. Usually I find that having only two works just as well because Crop Rot is there, so it's as though I have six copies anyway. Urborg may come out though. I've been using it to test Smallpox, but testing is inconsistent right now.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Has anyone experimented with a crucible+buried ruin package lately? If no one has tried it, I'm gonna give it a go this weekend and make a report. I'm aware that rug lists run academy+crucible. I have a lot of island hate and don't want the disynergy.

[t000]

Anyone tried any these cards? Thoughts?

Sacred Ground
Prismatic Omen
Burgeoning
Into the Wilds


As a side note, Riftstone Portal has been great to me, discarding it to mox or dredge'ing to Loam is just a great feeling. The face of an opponent when I tapp Dark Depths or The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale for mana, PRICELESS!

[Djehuti]

Has anyone experimented with a crucible+buried ruin package lately? If no one has tried it, I'm gonna give it a go this weekend and make a report. I'm aware that rug lists run academy+crucible. I have a lot of island hate and don't want the disynergy.

I tried running crucible main deck at the 40 duals tournament in pennsylvania last weekend to hedge against miracles. Deathrite and KotR + BBog kept me from recurring any relevant lands the whole day. I didn't play against miracles once so I can't attest to its effectiveness in that matchup. I also found that it warped my decisions to keep/mulligan and my playstyle for the worse. If I had it in my openning hand, instead of using wasteland agressively, crucible makes you hold back your wastelands/Gquarters until you can cast it which is super awkward (the better play may be to waste aggressively and draw into the three mana sources you need to cast the crucible but as I mentioned before, deathrite never allowed me to make that option). Lategame, it never seemed to be relevant and was a feel bad topdeck, especially if I had no exploration/graveyard. Feel free to try it for yourself but I found it to be disappointing.

[Djehuti]

Anyone tried any these cards? Thoughts?

Sacred Ground
Prismatic Omen
Burgeoning
Into the Wilds


As a side note, Riftstone Portal has been great to me, discarding it to mox or dredge'ing to Loam is just a great feeling. The face of an opponent when I tapp Dark Depths or The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale for mana, PRICELESS!

To answer your question, tried burgeoning. Not good. Worse than exploration because you don't have immediate access to your accelerated land. Worse than manabond because its not as explosive and can have impact if you draw it late game when somebody is brainstorming all of their lands away to find the gas to beat your face in. The upside of not discarding like manabond comes up less than you'd think.

I haven't tried the other cards you mentioned but I am curious, what cards would you be trying to cut for sacred ground, prismatic omen, and into the wilds?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Also, I'm a strong advocate of never playing more than 3 copies of Dark Depths. It's such a terrible draw without a stage and has no added utility unlike thespian's stage. Then again I have way more experience playing with RUG Lands.

Completely agree. I've only played 3. Tried the fourth in the board once but never wanted to bring it in.

I strongly disagree with this. The deck becomes so much more explosive and powerful with the 4th Dark Depths. R/G lands is first and foremost a combo deck, not a glacially slow prison deck like the older lands builds. I mean sure it doesn't really do anything - EXCEPT WIN YOU THE GAME. Don't forget that.

[Rivfader]

I strongly disagree with this. The deck becomes so much more explosive and powerful with the 4th Dark Depths. R/G lands is first and foremost a combo deck, not a glacially slow prison deck like the older lands builds. I mean sure it doesn't really do anything - EXCEPT WIN YOU THE GAME. Don't forget that.

I started playing 2, ticked up to 3 and am always playing 4 maindecked Depths these days. Main reason for me is that a quick combokill through 4 Depths/Stage seems to give more free game1-wins versus unfavorable matchups, than being a handicap in useless Depths-copies versus fair opponents. I also play Urborg main now, to have the combo enabled in three lands.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I started playing 2, ticked up to 3 and am always playing 4 maindecked Depths these days. Main reason for me is that a quick combokill through 4 Depths/Stage seems to give more free game1-wins versus unfavorable matchups, than being a handicap in useless Depths-copies versus fair opponents. I also play Urborg main now, to have the combo enabled in three lands.

Yeah I have beaten Storm and Omnitell before - having the speed to take advantage of them stumbling is a major reason why. Against fair decks without STP having that 4th Depths just makes it more likely that you kill them as soon as you hit the requisite mana (sometimes even heavy Deathrite draws out of Shardless don't matter because you just make a quick Marit Lage and get there).

[Dice_Box]

Cmon dice, don't leave us hanging. Show the goods

This is what I have right now with another Maze, two more Loam, two Stage and a Karakas coming. I kind of want to keep the old Karakas in the deck though. Feels nicer to have it and Tabernacle side by side on the table both from the same set.

Also this is mostly the cheaper end of the deck to foil. The worst is yet to come, but I am finishing this. I love this fucking deck and it's the first one I have decided to devote this level of attention too. When I finally travel overseas and play at a larger than 6 round event (biggest I have been in) I want people to know this is a deck I love and I am skilled at piloting.

Also getting set foil Groves, because Vault foil is shit even if the card boarder looks nicer.



On the topic of Depths, I run 3 and feel like I would be better off with a Bog, Ghost Quarter or some other utility land in the place of the 4th Depths. I see us as a control deck with a combo finish. Yes you can combo fast and if that's an option I will take it, but if your having a slow game there really is no benefit to another Depths.

[hyp3r1on]

: ) Sweet Wastelands. This is my current project/version of RUG Lands. The fun of the journey and the love of the deck is what keeps you going.







Also, I've tested a lot with Buried Ruin in an RG Lands shell and it's just not very good and not what RG wants to be doing. It's just way too slow. You have to be pumping your mana into Buried Ruin, losing it as your land drop and having to Loam it back for another usage.

[UnsungHero]

Love the posts guys! I'm actually sending out a bunch of cards to be signed for my deck (non foil japanese) so I will have to show them when I get them! Deciding if I want to get my Guru Forest signed is tough... I've really enjoyed this deck and within the last month have had some excellent tourney results (Top8 an IQ and 42nd at an Open) so I'm def happy to be playing this deck. This thread is very helpful and I probably wouldn't have had those good placings if I didn't study up on it!

I've been play testing some different stuff like Portal, Numbers of Manabond. Removal of Ghost Quarter in place of some other random things. Ill probably configure the main/sideboard more once GP Seattle passes and get some more testing.

[hyp3r1on]

I strongly disagree with this. The deck becomes so much more explosive and powerful with the 4th Dark Depths. R/G lands is first and foremost a combo deck, not a glacially slow prison deck like the older lands builds. I mean sure it doesn't really do anything - EXCEPT WIN YOU THE GAME. Don't forget that.

With access to a lot of tutor effects and dredging 3 with Loam, the added utility/explosiveness you get out of 4 Depths is extremely minimal. If you're playing Lands as a Combo deck you're playing Lands as a bad combo deck and probably not playing the deck optimally. Regardless of the version, Lands is first and foremost a control deck. Your lines of play should always be dictated by "How do I lock up/control this matchup?" If you know you're at a board state where you know you can't gain control/playing against a deck that you can't gain control of like Storm/playing against a deck like iPainter where you can't afford to sit on your hand - the focus then should shift to the combo 100%. Obviously, sometimes you have to keep a lot super fast combo hands and hope its good, but the combo should never be Priority 1 unless you know you're playing against a deck that you can't afford to wait.

I see way too many inexperienced Lands pilots full throttle gun towards the Combo in matchups where it's ill-advised, get blown out - lose their land drops and put themselves in really ugly spots like under a Thalia/Revoker with only 2 lands in play.

[barcode]

With access to a lot of tutor effects and dredging 3 with Loam, the added utility/explosiveness you get out of 4 Depths is extremely minimal. If you're playing Lands as a Combo deck you're playing Lands as a bad combo deck and probably not playing the deck optimally. Regardless of the version, Lands is first and foremost a control deck. Your lines of play should always be dictated by "How do I lock up/control this matchup?" If you know you're at a board state where you know you can't gain control/playing against a deck that you can't gain control of like Storm/playing against a deck like iPainter where you can't afford to sit on your hand - the focus then should shift to the combo 100%. Obviously, sometimes you have to keep a lot super fast combo hands and hope its good, but the combo should never be Priority 1 unless you know you're playing against a deck that you can't afford to wait.

I see way too many inexperienced Lands pilots full throttle gun towards the Combo in matchups where it's ill-advised, get blown out - lose their land drops and put themselves in really ugly spots like under a Thalia/Revoker with only 2 lands in play.

Completely agree. Dark Depths is a legendary land that produces no mana. How many copies do I play, in reality? Well:

3 Dark Depths
4 Gamble
3 Crop Rotation
= 10 copies

For me and the way I play the deck I don't want the fourth copy since it just gets in the way; I've had to mulligan hands with two Dark Depths because I couldn't make more than one mana. I can't imagine how much worse it would be with four Depths.

But if OP gets better results for him- or herself going "balls to the wall" with the combo aspect then more power to them. That just isn't how I play the deck (or think the deck should be played in most circumstances).

[Chatto]

@ hyp3r1on: I can relate to what you say, but do think RGCL compares to classic Lands in a different way: because of the insanely good combo. The control part is put a bit to the background, because (imho) by playing your combo you become pro-active. Yes, it is still vital to control the board, but instead of being reactive you can now put the pressure on your opponent. So, I can relate with Rivfader and Admiral_Arzar when they play a fourth DD: drawing into your combo naturally (I think that should be your only reason running four DD) gives more room in controlling the board. I have just started fidfljng with a fourth DD in my SB, but am very satisfied with only running three MB. Still, I agree with what you say in general, but just see it a bit different.

[hyp3r1on]

@Chatto - That's fair. I'll be the first one to admit that sometimes I'm too much of an old school control player for my own good. As few win conditions as possible : p