Don't know if it is relevant or if anyone mentioned it, but there was a Bant style list that got 4th in the last SCG. It seems more like a "Bant Midrange" then a Maverick since it doesn't even run Thalia because it has its own share of Brainstorm/Daze/Force. It does run 4 Knight, 4 mana dorks (3 Noble, 1 BoP), 1 Sigarda, 1 Pridemage, StP, and Library which makes it kind of overlap. I know we don't go down the Bant path here since it has its own space, but I think there are things in this list that are interesting from a Maverick pov.
1. Kessig Wolf Run:
In a Punishing Maverick red based build we probably can't make DRS work as well and we lose Abrupt Decay. We gain reach and burn like Punishing Fire. If we run a Cradle already and can produce a non 0 amount of mana, could Wolf Run provide a way to attack into a TNN?
This also makes me think of other Red based lands we could try out. The non Scapeshift land based deck in Modern looks to Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion (2RW tap: double strike) and Slayers' Stronghold (RW tap: +2/0, vigilance, haste). With that deck that use Amulet triggers to generate a lot of mana really quick to cast like a turn 2 Primeval Titan to do further shenanigans with. I think Sunhome is too expensive for us but Slayers' Stronghold seems cheap enough. Radiant Fountain is used there to gain life, but this can be recurred and I don't think it fits well with us unless you run Life from the Loam.
All this being said, I am not sure if just making a 20/20 ML token is just strictly better.
2. Retreat to Coralhelm:
We discussed this as a combo card with Knight but didn't think the manabase could support the black and blue. He was able to use this and fetchlands to make a decent amount of mana and then make a Kessig Big Knight and lethal swing. See #1. I still would like to see how the White Retreat works since it gives play against Miracles in uncounterable tokens to chump or attack.
3. Sejiri Steppe:
Probably not what we are looking for seeing as it is a enter tap land which is not great in an opener (can't even cast t1 Mom). Just makes me wanna look back and find other lands I may not have tried or been aware of.
I love Sigarda, I really do, but Strix makes her look a bit silly.Originally Posted by sdematt
If you want to improve the BUG shardless matchup I would suggest running a punishing maverick build with the cards already suggested by others (Sigarda, 2 Sylvan Library, 1 of Courser, etc). Wilt-Leaf Liege is also pretty nice.
Punishing Fire helps alot since it's good vs discard, planeswalkers and the smaller creatures in the deck (DRS, strix, agent).
P Fire is a good call. Shardless is my main deck and it's tough to beat.
I 2-0'd James Nguyen a couple weeks ago in Junk (which is a little different due to Bob/Lily); however what I found was quite boss was Bitterblossom (experimental to me at the time.) That + Goyf was the thing I was attempting to test; but I found Blossom holds it's own just fine as an all round brutal card. Helps against Miracles, D&T, and basically any non-burn non-combo deck. Being only 2 mana makes it quite feasible next to Thalia (another reason I was testing it) and it's straight amazing with Equips; for obvious reasons.
The obvious negative being that it double-pumps goyfs; and if you're not running Goyfs; it's probably not for you..
In the past I've also used Kjeldoran Outpost to good effect. I added it for the Miracles matchup; where it was basically garbage (too slow.) But.. it worked wonders on fair decks on a blank board state; or against Liliana, Jace, etc..
Fetchable with KotR and you can sac a tapped land to produce the mana to then make your first dude. It's better than the atrocious garbage it looks; but I was also running Loam at the time... so I didn't care if I sac'd a land.
If it's not been made obvious; I test a lot of Jank for the purposes of learning; sometimes it works out.
Going back; another brutal card you can try is Hero of Bladehold. Immune to 2/3rds of removal; pretty castable in this deck; and immediately swallows the board in tokens you can equip. She ends the game in 2 swings and she's been used in DGA; which has 1/3rd the accel this deck has. (DRS, as opposed to DRS + Birds/Hierarch/Arbor + GSZ + KOTR)
I can understand you guys would rather run Titania due to GSZ; but 4 mana vs. 6 mana is a HUGE difference.
EDIT:
As an aside; if you're in Red; Shattering Spree isn't bad (or ancient grudge.) Rabblemaster is another "better kill me quick" who can eat walkers. If you gear towards basics/mana-dorks you could also go the Blood Moon route and probably invent a Deck-archtype. If going that route; Land Grant is a "fetch land" that gets you around blood moon.
Hey man are you still using birds? Are you on 3 DRS, 1 NH and 1 BoP?
I'm planning to go 3 DRS, 2 BoP for the double black of LotV
I'm still playing 1 Bird and 4 Deathrite Shaman along 2 Bayous and 1 Scrubland as black producing lands (2 savannahs, 1 forest, 1 plains, 7 fetchlands).
What's your reasoning for LotV? I'm curious :)
Formerly known as Bierbaron.
I got 75th (5-3-1) at Eternal Extravaganza #3 this past weekend. Lots of fun. I probably could have done better, but honestly I haven't played Magic in months (life, weddings to attend, etc). I had a fucking blast. Not sure if folks care what I ran. I'll post details if anyone wants.
Creatures (24)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Dryad Arbor
Spells (15)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands (22 + Arbor)
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
SB
2 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg #2
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Rest in Peace
1 Null Rod
1 Choke
1 Batterskull
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Toxic Deluge
*** Quick Notes ***
- Eternal Extravaganza #3 was insane. Thank god for Caffrey throwing this. And props to basically everyone there being chill. The lack of douchebags was greatly appreciated by everyone.
- This was my first time in competition trying 4 dorks instead of 5 (noble/DRS split). In 2 games (through 9 rounds) mana was an issue. DRS won me a few games due to the B ping ability.
- 0 Courser because I did not fear burn. Lots of DnT/Delver shenanigans in the room.
- Tasigur was a fucking house. On paper he sucks. IRL he stole a few games. He came in exactly as expected: late game when I either run out of steam or against decks that leave me with a dead board until I'm able to cast him. He usually cost 3 mana. A few games he came out for B. Literally shits on opponents when his ability is activated. Specifically, one game he came in as a surprise and his ability immediately revealed batterskull + decay. Backbreaking for the opponent to handle that.
- 4 Knights 4 Life. I don't understand how or why people are shaving this down to 3. You win the game untapping with her. I stole round 1 by randomly drawing 3 against DnT. They can't handle their lands being nuked.
- Scavenging Ooze kicked so much ass. 2 in the main was the correct call. 1 usually gets countered/shot down.
- Sigarda in the board was the right call. Not MD material. I am debating if she's a new staple for the 75/76. As of today, she's an auto-SB card alongside Teeg and Canonist.
- Batterskull should have been MD with L/S in the SB. Mistakes were made.
- Cavern of Souls AND Choke both did nothing (never saw it when I brought it in).
- Sideboards need to pack Krosan Grip or Wear/Tear. I wanted another spell that removed arts/enchants indiscriminately (ie; not decay #4). QPM #3 also a possibility.
- Small E.Tutor SB worked well. RIP ate dredge. Again, it's the definitive GY answer. Null Rod ate Painter. Again, wish Choke was relevant/was seen in the matchups I brought it in. I could have had Meekstone, Needle, Revoker, or Banishing Light/O-Ring in Choke's place. A small 4 or 5 card toolbox for "I play this thing and it's GG" worked well against a developed field.\
- Debating if I want Loam.
I hate Batterskull in the main, it's so often a dead card.
I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.
Soldier Stompy
She's that good. Especially with her discard against control. Extra umph. :)
Lol, you meant Liliana of the Veil. I was thinking you're on Leyline of the Void
Not sure what I should think about Liliana, Maverick neither plays cards which synergizes with the discard ability nor fits Lily with the taxing ability of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Double Black in the mana cost constraints the mana base to a certain degree too.
Vs. Control I'm fully into playing real bombs like Garruk, Elspeth, Nahiri or Armageddon, Cataclysm, Choke. Usually it's enough to play a critical number of Gaddock Teegs, Sylvan Library and Stoneforge Mystics backed up by uncounterable removal (Krosan Grip, Abrupt Decay) and Pithing Needle. A miser's Cavern of Souls helps too.
Formerly known as Bierbaron.
Did you have enough removal in all games? Seems quite like the list I've been playing. Probably due me copying the list from here... I try to keep my list as basic as possible, no fancy techs. 22+1 land and 4 DRS were enough? How many times you got Sylvan Library to stick?
Any insights or stories about matches appreciated, if you can spare time and energy to write them.
Edit: I attented a small tourney today. My games were against Storm (loss 1-2), Pox (draw 1-1-1), Mono R Stompy (loss 0-2) and bye.
Got my wins vs. Storm w/Gaddock Teeg (mulligans), win and draw against Pox w/Sylvan Library (draw was after mull to 5 and getting double Hymned). Sneak Attack with Worldspine and Emmy g1, Sneak w/ Emmy g2 (mull to 6). Legacy is harsh on mulligans and pauses in playing. Though our meta is quite small, maybe ~30 players max, usually around 12-15 players during workday tournaments, the players know their way around their decks quite well.
Last edited by Wintersmith; 10-28-2015 at 03:41 PM.
Games are going so long against everything. You have the ability to drop batterskull and just push out. I also had so much mana I could have easily cast batterskull almost every game (barring the few where my mana never appeared).
@Wintersmith
Did you have enough removal in all games?
-Against most decks, I had 1-2 pieces within the opening 2 turns. That's a fair ratio IMHO. The matchups I needed sweepers I could have gone for a 5th. This event confirms my belief in running 5. Maybe 4 and the 4th STP. Against swarm decks I needed sweepers to keep pace.
Seems quite like the list I've been playing. Probably due me copying the list from here... I try to keep my list as basic as possible, no fancy techs. 22+1 land and 4 DRS were enough?
-I kinda want Scryb Ranger back in the mix, although she's garbage by herself.
-I always run 22+arbor as lands
-4 DRS was interesting. I learned to adjust my style of play to accommodate the lack of Noble Hierarch as the event wore on. Deathrite is mandatory in the format. 1/2 my games Deathrite needed another land in the grave. Usually once I hit 3 natural mana I was rolling. My immediate fix is to drop Cavern for either another dual or another fetch. If I was scared of wasteland, I'd perhaps run another plains.
How many times you got Sylvan Library to stick?
-Almost every game. It beat DnT, BG Pox, 1 delver game, and Painter by itself. Some decks literally can't compete with it. I've learned to be more aggressive with it. Sometimes burning 4 or 8 life just to have cards and continue being "ahead" wins.
-The times Sylvan was countered, it came at a VERY high expense of blue decks using FoW-pitching-something relevant (another counter, daze, TNN, etc)
Any insights or stories about matches appreciated, if you can spare time and energy to write them.
-I'll see if I can work on that.
-My main insight is to try Tasigur. He was unbelievably strong. Against DnT, bring in all the sweepers and don't be afraid to blow one if they have 2 or 3 dorks on the table. They can't recover whatsoever. Also, don't be afraid to wasteland the shit out of their manabase. I won a game in blowout fashion because he was held off 3 lands and lacked Vial.
This was my list, and I created a thread for it if anyone is interested.
As a note in this context, I'll add that a more Maverick-style plan may or may not be a stronger deck, as it certainly shores up the greater weaknesses of the deck (over-dependance on Knight) and that deck's combo plan (FoW to stall until permanent-based disruption) probably costs fair matches and doesn't even do a great job against the combo decks. FWIW, I do think the red-splash and Wolf Run are almost necessary. Planning on Knight-rotating through the whole deck really leaves you at the mercy of a couple DRS activations or meager lifegain (StP even, not just Batterskull connecting), while red beats TNN and can be quite strong with Knight if you haven't found Retreat. Obviously that's a pretty serious strain on the manabase, so DRS probably has to go, perhaps on the way toward a Punishing Fire build.
Yea I was thinking more back to the Punishing Maverick builds of old (before DRS if I can recall). I personally have not looked at the Gr creatures enough since I never had the money for Groves. I would be curious what 1-3 drop creatures we could use in a red splash. I'll take a look in my spare time and see if there are any interesting dudes we could GSZ for. Even with this, I don't know how much better the Red splash is versus the Black. Black gives DRS and ADecay which is real strong, enough to where my stubborn GW build may start having the black splash. The only real good things on the top of my head from Red is Wolf Run and recurring removal at 2 dmg which seems to be a sweet spot in this format.
The list of GR creatures maybe worth playing is very short. The only one I even tested was Huntmaster of the Fells, which was underwhelming. There is a long list of utility lands I would play before Wolf-Run. Punishing Maverick is basically a GW deck. The only Red cards I've ever played in it are Punishing Fire, Pyroblast, Domri Rade, and Electrickery. In many matchups there are zero Red cards in your deck post-board.
As Pellefant brought up last page, Punishing Fire is very strong against Shardless and a lot of other fair decks that are crawling out of the woodwork with the Dig banning. You lose some ground to combo without Thoughtseize, but you still have the same hatebears and Blasts can do some work against Sneak & Show for example. I would bring Punishing Maverick to a tournament tomorrow without a second thought if I was a competent Maverick player.
I think Wolf-Run is pretty boss as an EoT fetch. Give your 10/10 trample and lay waste. Then again, PFire covers most everything you'd need to trample over.
You mean P. Fire kills everything except for the one thing I'd actually want to trample over (TNN).
I don't travel much for events and I'm no pro or anything, but I've been playing Maverick for a while and it's been treating me fairly well locally ('Cept when sdematt rolls out the rhinos x.x). I'll be taking it to the GP in Tacoma as this is the only legacy deck I play regularly.
Most likely playing this 75
Creatures-23
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
'Spells'-14
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Lands-23
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
SB-15
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Krosan Grip (Tempted to make this a 3rd Decay...)
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
I would really want a Cradle in this list to help cast Elspeth under a Thalia, plus the synergies with SFM + Cast + Equip turns.
I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.
Soldier Stompy
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