They have some sort of algorithm that looks at deck performance over a certain time period. It's not accounting for what the meta is now now that DTT has been banned. So for the past X months (whatever it is), Shardless WASN'T a deck to beat and Omni was. It's obviously reversed now but it'll stay like this on the forum for a few months until the next update.Originally Posted by AustinP
From nothing came teeth.
How do you all feel about tasabo's web in the side at big events? Is it enough to improve the lands matchup?
Shardless BUG
Waste of a SB slot in my opinion. If you have Meddling Mages in your SB then you have all the tools to win. Plan is to get one down on Fire and any following that on Loam or Gamble, control their GY with DRS and then using the rest of the disruption in the deck you should be able to win easily enough.
Regarding RG lands matchup. I have been crushed really hard in my trainnings. Played s lot of times and the match seems to be 70-30 in their favor.
This is my current strategy. Do you guys have a better plan?
+3x meddling mage +1x scrubland(stop p.fire) +1x pithing needle +1x fow +2x thoughtseize
-3xbaleful -1x toxic deluge -1x maelstrom -2x hymn -1liliana
I play with thoughtseize to know their hand and play meddling mage according.
My current list is here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post910787
You absolutely need graveyard hate, and Hymn is better than Thoughtseize because it can hit lands. If you bring in Meddling Mage you need the first to name Punishing Fire and the second to name Loam. It doesn't matter what's in their hand, because you aren't going to beat them with active Loam or Punishing Fire. Your own Loam is worth bringing in if you have it. If you expect to see a lot of Lands, Tsabo's Web is an option, but more graveyard hate is probably both better and more flexible.
Last edited by btm10; 11-01-2015 at 01:38 PM.
I currently have 2 surgical extraction in my side but I'm wondering if Extirpate would be better: what do you guys think?
Ignorance is strength
I am planning to add it as well. I think surgical is better because it is a cost-zero graveyard answer. You are adding it aggainst loam decks, graveyard combo and p.fire decks. Any of them (regarding reanimator) cares about split second.
The important thing is that you don't try to extirpate a p-fire vs an untapped grove; split second means nothing to mana abilities. As far as mana cost goes; having phyrexian mana cost (surgical in hand) makes a turn 2-3 shardless a much safer play vs combo.
Planning on playing shardless this weekend. I expect miracles and shardless to be everywhere. Anyone have any good tech for the grindy mirrors? I prefer the maindeck popularized by Lejay without discard and without baleful strix and the sideboard with meddling mages.
In my LGS there's 2 other potential Shardless players, so a singleton Notion Thief seems appropriate. Being able to steal Ancestrals is huge.
if you expect mirror, player with more value will win, so:
- leave some number of strixes in mainboard - they are 2 for 1 and they are good at blocking their goyfs
- side out FOWs in g2 and/or g3, and maybe thoughtseize if you play it. Leave hymn in mainboard
good sb choices are
- misdirection because it can redirect hymn and ancestral vision
- notion thief
- sylvan library
- some number of removals, extra creatures like v. clique and planeswalkers.
Against miracles, it can be really tricky. They tend to side out cbalances, so you may sit with decay as dead card, but anyway it can hit snapcasters and cliques (or mentors).
Side out toxic deluge, strixes, and some number of wastelands, and bring in combination of cliques, sylvan library, pithing needle, krosan grip, pernicious deed (against angels), maelstrom pulse (against jaces), notion thief and so on.
controls
I'm running Meddling Mages in the side and since I'm farily new to Legacy, what matches do you bring it in against and what cards do you name? I know they come in for combo matches, but what are the key pieces?
You are bringing mages mostly agains combo. Naming will change a lot according each game state but generally speaking:
Storm:
1st Infernal tutor
2nd Tendrils
3rd LED
Sneak Show
1st SnT
2st Sneak Attack
3rd Pyroclasm
Elves (they usually side out glipmse agains us)
1st Natural Order
2nd Green Sun
Loam Decks
1st Punishing Fire
2nd Life from the loam/Croping Rotation
Dredge/Oops all spells
1st Dread return
2st Dread return
3st Dread return
Belcher
1st Belcher
2nd Empty the warrens
Reanimator
1nd Reanimate
2rd Exume
This is a great response. It's unfortunate that the meddling mage plan is so well known now. I'm debating not using it in seattle. That way if combo brings in decay or pyroclasm itll be mostly dead.
I will add:
If they already passed with 3 mana and/or you can play lilliana, the first can name sneak attack. If you don't think they knew to bring in pyroclasm, the 3rd can name Pyroblast/REB but that's a crap shoot.
Against manaless dredge, the second can name cabal therapy to cut off another sac outlet.
Against storm, if they don't have access to green mana or you don't think they brought in decay, you can often just name Tendrils and win. Unless it's TES, in which case you should prob name burning wish. Nice thing is vs TES you have deluge and pulse to hit their tokens.
Against reanimator, if you have a deathrite active, you could consider naming show and tell.
Against Elves, if they have the symbiote/visionary engine active, I've had to name visionary before.
Don't overthink it though. Name what beats you.
I'm trying to finalize a sideboard for the GP this weekend. I don't have any byes, I'll be playing in LCQs on Friday and am looking to improve my matchups against Burn, D&T, and Sneak and Show. Here's what I'm working with so far:
MD:
1 Bayou
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
2 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Jace, Vryn's PRodigy
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
SB:
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Force of Will
1 Golgari Charm
3 Meddling Mage
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Notion Thief
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scrubland
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vendilion Clique
I have the following cards to pick and choose from for tweaking:
Options:
2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Chill
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Disfigure
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Engineered Plague
1 Flusterstorm
1 Golgari Charm
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Krosan Grip
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Life from the Loam
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Massacre
1 Meddling Mage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Null Rod
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fant
2 Thougthseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Tsabo's Web
2 Unearth
2 Wasteland
1 Zuran Orb
I think ideally, I'd like to have a little more discard and removal, but I'm finding it a little difficult to shave things from my current board.
Playing Shardless in Seattle this weekend. On the fence about running leyline for lands and punishing fire as well as dredge and reanimator. I already have 6 spots taken up with 3 mage 2 priest and 1 scrubland. Leyline is great in multiple when I played it when cruise/dtt /lands were a big thing, But now that I have been testing against combo more I really want the mages and discard.
All opinions and comments are appreciated. Thanks!
Sideboard looks like
3 meddling mage
2 priest
1 scrubland
2 disfigure
1 toxic deluge
1 golgari charm
2 null rod
1 pithing needle
1 seal of primordial
1 surgical
Also thinking of maybe some of these.
Nihil spellbomb
Chill
Leyline
V clique
Massacre
Night of souls betrayal
Engineered plague
Hi!
I think depends from your main, how many discrds do you play?
Of your side i like really the 2 priest and 3 meddling (i'm playing this configuration) but maybe you need more discards effect (i'm running 3 tourach in main and 2 thoughtseize and 1 duress in side).
2 null rod 1 pithing needle and a seal for me are too much, are versatile cards but they go in the same match, you could cut a null rod and a seal for some discards effect!
I take the opportunity to ask something else about the deck:
- i see some list that run 21 lands(+1 scrubland in side), what do you think? i try this configuration, cutting a Creeping tar pit for a Tasigur, and for me is working really good!
- someone try the new Jace ?and what's the result?
- one things that i note is that we are very vulnerable to jace tms especially against miracle( maybe the second tar pit could help me)
- Notion Thief is so strong? every time i play in resp to jace effect or a Brainstorm he take or a Reb or a Swords.
Thanks for yours opinion!
I haven't tested some of things, but these would be my bs theories:
21 lands seems too low to me but I see some decks having success. I think it's prob ok if you're at 1 jace tms and only 2 wasteland. I like 4 wasteland.
New jace is something I want to try but I really don't think Shardless is optimized for him. I haven't tested him at all. In theory all you're flashing back is brainstorm and decay, and -2-0 is not that impactful. Lastly, it dies to everything and get's karakas bounced so...
Jace TMS is a big threat vs us but pulse and tarpit do help. I've cut tarpit recently though. Kind of want to slot him in as a 23rd land.
Notion thief looks great on paper but I've always had it die or get countered or Ive drawn it when it doesnt do anything. Im exploring other options in the slot like v clique, a third jace, or some non-blue source of control hate (like garruk above, but I don't love garruk).
-IJ
I agree 2 null rods is excessive w/ pithing needle.
I like spellbomb over surgical bc you can cascade into it and you can board it in vs miracles. Others like leyline.
Night of souls betrayal has been a beating and one of my favorite board cards. It's not great if you're running baleful strix though.
Engineered plague has always been a disappointment.
V clique is always a fine magic card.
Chill is great if you expect Burn, TES, and Sneak and show to some extent. If you expect more ANT than TES and not a lot of burn, then chill is a waste. Chill doesn't even single handedly win the burn match, and I've won several times without it as well. I think it's probably unnecessary.
Nice to see so many people playing Meddling Mage, been a long time fan myself. Some general thoughts on them though:
Firstly, I see a lot of people running only 3 mages, which I don't like. Meddling Mage is fantastic in multiples and many games against combo are decided on drawing more than one, or at least drawing one early. It is also important to diversify your hate, and thus the 4th mage is a better call than the 5:th discard etc.
Secondly, because they are live vs all combo decks (and against lands, burn etc) I very much prefer to max out on them before I add priests, which are better vs some combo decks, but do nothing against ANT/TES and lands etc.
Lastly, the argument that people nowadays pack more answers to MM (thus making them a worse option than usual) is slightly flawed. While it is true that most combo decks are equipped to deal with them post-board, doing so isn't that favourable for the combo deck. Each time combo decks have to devote a card to deal with one of your answers, that's one less card for them to actually employ their main game plan of going off. This makes mages a good way of not locking down, but slowing down combo decks just enough for you to find the next piece of disruption, and then the next, and after a while, your CA will make this 1-for-1 trade between your hate and the combo decks countermeasures very favourable for you. Sort of the like the deck operates against fair decks as well: trade 1-for-1 and then pull ahead with visions/jace. Apart from Elves, no combo deck can generate any meaningful CA over the course of a long game (unless they go off that is).
Right, good luck at the GP and may the cascades be ever in your favour! :)
Last edited by LarsLeif; 11-06-2015 at 02:31 AM.
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