With Needles, Grips, Games and pressure, I haven't had a problem with Miracles, but that's not to say the deck isn't excellent.
-Matt
What do you suggest I do to the sideboard?
Beating miracles is a necessity on mtgo.
I'm gonna keep running the deck and hope I continue to do well.
It's fun and I hope I can contribute as much as possible to improving this deck.
My personal recommendation for playing against Bug decks would actually be to leave things like slaughter games at home. The match is generally about playing to the board. Games would sometimes be useful but I do not think its worth the card.
Miracles is tough but beatable. Sdmatt is right that needle and grip are huge gets. Turning off top is rough for them. Instead of carpet you could run choke. It is better to just play lands and threats and while carpet allows you to ramp it is not too needed in that matchup. I have never been a fan of carpet because I feel most of the matches you want it either are already favored (rug delver) or ramping is wasting a card (miracles). Slaughter games is also a giant beating for that deck.
So I will cut a thrun and 2 carpet for a grip and 2 choke. Ideally, helping my poor matchups.
Otherwise, I will reevaluate the mainboard such as trying to fit in thrun.
In the meantime, I'm gonna tweak modern esper mill. Not sure why I find it so enjoyable.
Hello.
I'm kinda new to this deck, can any gentleman here explain to me what's the best version (GB, red splash, white splash) against combo AND miracles?
The strategy of this deck seems a lot of fun
Last edited by rubblekill; 11-05-2015 at 10:32 AM.
What matchs do you people find yourself siding out veteran explorers? Goblins, miracles, and DnT maybe elves are the ones I can think of, also maybe burn but want your guys opinion?
@Rubble - Imo the Blue splash is the best at combo. You get access to Fow which is a good get, and in the version I was playing you also have g-probe to help on therapies. I also ran Snapcaster mage as well. Bs is a big get obviously as it helps find the SB cards like surgical. I didnt hate my miracles matchup either because I just drop vet and become a Bug control deck with Jaces and Snap caster but more threats in thrun and tusks. I also had 2 CTP.
@Themucher- I side vets out against Miracles and sometimes cut a few against certain blade decks. Otherwise you need them. You want them against DnT and Goblins because you need the mana to deed them or drop your bigger threats. I also leave them in as you want to keep the idea of vet therapy hands which opens your deck up to beating most of those decks.
@rubble - junk plays hate bears like teeg. Bug plays counterspells and such. Jund plays blasts among discard and games. The miracles matchup is interesting. Slaughter terminus to remove their largest out and then flood the board. Deal with Jace asap. Jund has punishing fire to deal with Jace but junk can just cast moar Skillerhino moar better. Slaughter games, discard, surgical and chains are all good against combo and often times miracles.Originally Posted by Tom4ik
Side note: slaughter games naming top turns the miracles deck into a magickarp in the middle of the street. They can only dodge cars for so long until one hits them or they die to lack of oxygen.
@themuncher - I agree with him. Basically any deck that plays a lot of basics and will contest you. Omnitell can be added to that list. In nic fit mirror, it depends what version the combatants are on because some versions use mana better and benefit from a larger pool like jund. Therapy is the best discard spell in magic which is why I have been thinking about adding a lingering souls or sorin, lord of innistrad to the deck for more consistent flashback. I personally run 3/3 vet Drs split because junk doesn't need the mana jund appreciates.
Thanks a lot, you are very kind 😃
What about the straight GB version with hymns? To me the list that caleb d. posted in the early 2015 seems the most consistent with more decays, deed, pulse, hymn..It only lacks rhinos
I feel that the power for consistency exchange is very poor. By giving up the third color, you close yourself off to near inifinite potential. Skillerhino and huntmaster are absurdly powerful cards. I think that two colors compared to 3 is excessively less fun as well. Casting elspeth Suns champion in legacy brought me much happiness and getting a rug delver player to concede with DL dromoka on the stack was priceless.
I agree with you on the fun factor, but gb offers quite the threats as well (tusk, g. Titan, titania, thrun). Im thinking of assembling a straight gb list with a really light white splash for a nice sideboard (hate bears and maybe an e. Tutor board?). There is plenty of removal tools even w/o path to exile, and i think rhino is not much better than the other gb threats. Probably im wrong.
Plus I love hymnin' people
Straight GB has it strength's. In raw power GB can be an absolute monster. Running maindeck Hymn, more walkers like Garruk PH and even Tarmogoyf can become options. Or how about Grave Titan along with Recurry. It's not for nothing that a good year ago one of the NicFit decks to show up in top8's was straight GB. In the end, every NicFit variant has its pros and cons. There is no best like described in the OP. NicFit is both skill intensive and meta dependant. You can play soo much variaty of cards in NicFit it is just absurd. Tuning it perfectly is near impossible and some matchups are a nightmare regardless of variant.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
i do not believe the GB version is stronger but the consistency can be perceived as strength. I say, for all the new nic fit persons, find the list that intrigues you and mold it not only to your meta but more specifically your play style and your preference because this archetype is like no other. You can show your personality through your 75.
If you're sideboarding Slaughter Games (which I recommend), bring them in against combo decks and miracles, and basically nothing else. If you happen to run into bugstill, slaughter is fine since their only real wincon is jace -- take that away and they cry. For Shardless, though, Slaughter Games stays in the sideboard, for sure.
I'd generally recommend something like the following for a sideboard atm:
white:
3 Slaughter Games
1 Krosan Grip
1 Tsunami
1 Golgari Charm
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
blue:
3 Slaughter Games
2 Krosan Grip
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
I have no thoughts on red versions at this time.
Generally speaking, if you want to beat miracles, you need 8 sideboard cards, of which 3 are Slaughter Games. If you're not currently splashing Games in your white or blue versions, I recommend it -- it improves miracles and combo, which are two things that you want to have cards to beat, and Slaughter is the best you're going to get. All it takes is a Taiga and some Deathrites.
So yeah. You want to sideboard out 4 Vets 4 Therapies and bring in 3 Slaughter + 5. For white, you bring 1 Tsunami, 2 Elspeth, 1 Decay, 1 Grip. For blue, you bring 2 Grip, 2 Glen Elendra, 1 Decay.
The plan is basically the same regardless of which version. You disrupt their Tops with Decays, Deeds, and Grips -- it's critical to remember that you can destroy their Top in response to a fetchland and force them to get rid of it. You don't want to be without your own Tops in this matchup, plus Deed is actually really important here because it keeps Mentor at bay, as well as CB locks, EoT Entreat garbage, and random bullshit enchantments -- both of these are reasons I don't like Needle, at least for this matchup.
So, attack their Tops. Aside from that angle, you also board in a couple of extra threats at the 4-spot. 4 is rather hard for them to CB naturally, and it becomes almost impossible for them if you Slaughter Jace TMS on your first Games (which is what I usually do). White brings Elspeths to provide a steady stream of pressure while being very hard for them to effectively answer, while blue offers Glen Elendra, who is a tremendous pain in their ass for obvious reasons.
And then, the Slaughters.
I personally go for their win conditions. Jace first, then either Mentor or Entreat depending on the board state and how you think they sideboarded / what their list looks like.
It's also possible to attack their protection instead -- Slaughter Terminus, then StP -- sometimes they just implode under your superior threat density if you do that. For this plan, a lot depends on how game 1 went. If you were able to squeak out game 1, then attacking their win conditions is almost always correct -- by denying their ability to win, you ensure a match win even if you go to time. If you lose game 1, the situation depends on how much time is left on the clock. If it was a long game 1, then attack their protection. If it was a short game 1, then I think that attacking their win conditions is still more effective overall. It also depends on how bomb heavy your particular list is. There's a lot of factors.
tl;dr:
-4 Vet, -4 Therapy, +3 Slaughter Games, +2 bomb, +3 screw with your Top cards. Season to taste.
On Meren:
I do not think that cutting Nightmare for Meren is correct. Nightmare is still the stronger card in a void, and the two actually work together fantastically well. I would rather have both in my list, and it's not particularly close. Meren makes Nightmare better, and vise versa.
Sb for tonight's daily barring a revelation
3 duress
2 surgical
2 canonist
1 chains
2 choke (different versions for max tilt)
1 grip
3 slaughter
1 tsunami
I already play 3 pw mainboard so I felt two more in the sb was unnecessary.
Yeah, if you have them main, then that's fine.
I would probably replace the Chains with something else, though -- you want an 8th for Miracles to make a clean sideboard in/out, and Chains is kind of a weak card imo. You look soft to Elves as well, but I'm not sure how much of that deck there is on MODO because of the dexterity required. How many Decays are you on mainboard? If not the full 4, then siding an extra copy wouldn't be the worst.
Engineered Plague would be a good splash between Elves and Miracles that I would recommend considering.
I can see engineered over chains. I will try it if I have time.
Another legacy daily with this hilariously awesome deck
2 path
4 therapy
3 vet
3 DRS
2 top
1 teeg
1 pridemage
1 scooz
3 abrupt decay
3 deed
1 e-wit
1 pulse
4 Skillerhino
1 garruk, primal
1 Ajani, mentor
1 sigarda
1 thragtusk
1 Elspeth, Sun's
4 GSZ
4 windswept
2 verdant
1 wooded
2 bayou
2 savannah
1 scrub
1 Taiga
3 forest
2 plains
2 swamp
1 karakas
1 volrath
SB:
2 surgical
3 Duress
3 slaughter games
2 ethersworn canonist
1 tsunami
1 grip
2 choke
1 engineered plague
Round 1 Reanimator (Oarsman - Joe Losset)
Game 1 he starts slow. I see he is on reanimator so i run 2 rhino into dazes to resolve the gsz for drs. e-wit rhino back. Skillerhino and active DRS draw the concession
Game 2 His draws were poor. I had discard and failed to maintain priority to pop top and draw duress to eliminate all his outs. PUNT. he missed on his one outer and I win with DRS and Skillrhino. (Dynamic Duo)
2-0
Round 2 ANT (Monkeyscantcry)
Game 1 he probes me and i know he laughed out loud bc i had nothing going. we lose fairly quickly.
Game 2 I get to therapy and fb with vet for 3 cards and cast canonist. i got 2 c rit and a decay. Next turn i slam tsunami for 2 sea and 1 island. hes left with mire and swamp. Skillerhino crashes in. GAME.
Game 3 I mull to 5. t2 canonist and then he duress's my choke so my deck says, yo ric, heres another canonist. slam a rhino, playing around the massacre (Basedgod Karakas), We win after he mini-tendrils to live off petal, led, tendrils.
2-1
Round 3 RUg delver
Game 1 mull to 5 die with 4 lands in play and 2 5 drops in hand, he has t 0 force for vet into delver blind flip
Game 2 mull to 5 again, t 0 force for vet again, t1 delver into blind flip again. 2 more delvers. bs flip them revealing submerge to put scooze back on top
the mulligans were not risky keeps, they were 1 nonbasic 7s and no land 6s. I hate when variance and mtgo sht all over my face.
0-2
Round 4 Sneak and Show
Game 1 he had t2 snt for emrakul. no karakas in sight
game 2 he has t3 sneak. i get it with pdmage. lose board to emrakul. he runs cantrips into snt and emrakul while i draw lands
0-2
2-2 overall. seriously got fked by mtgo and variance. deck was fine when i wasnt on my knees receiving the variance D.
SB was very strong. may run the deck again in the daily at 11 aka about 2 hrs 40 minutes.
feedback is appreciated.
Smashing with rhinos seems fun 😊
A few questions: why 0 grave titans? It fills a similar role to sigarda but its better imo (no gsz tho).
Knight errand seems better than sun champion (cheaper + pumps creatures).
Ajani seems weak? I might be wrong but I'd rather play something else
Apart from GSZ, Sigarda can't be hit by spot removal, which is a thing. Also, evasion. Besides, why bother with Grave Titan when a cheaper creature also fills the intended roll? That's the danger of cool stuff, which this deck is incredibly susceptible of.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
