[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Whitefaces]

I've used Chalice in BUG builds where it's been solid as a Trinket Mage option, not for anti combo but just as a disruption piece, at 1 or 2 even on turn 3 or 4 it really disrupts a lot of decks, while missing most of what's in this one. I would never run 4 in a deck like this though, it just cuts way too much into your tutor package.

I played BUG pod on Tuesday at my LGS with a Trinket Mage package, Chalice in the SB, I board it in for combo mostly, but it'll come in vs things like RUG Delver too. Saying that, I completely agree with you. This deck IS Vet + Therapy. Stripping yourself of those options isn't wise, and therapy is our best tool for fighting counterspells in the mid/late game to land our bombs.

Vexing Shusher does give you some wiggle room to be fair, I just don't like the idea.

[aicnelavo]

a no go on the chalices seems like a wise decision, assuming I want to focus on more synergy and card advantage. However the original purpose of the chalices were more of an attempt to combat the harsh combo match up. Perhaps a little out of left field in terms of overall synergy. The deck does not have much support for it via cavern of souls ect. I feel that it was a broad answer to a narrow problem.

I will continue to brainstorm on more approaches to handle the unfair matchups.

Are any of you running some unconventional mainboard tech in a combo heavy meta?

[Ricardio]

a no go on the chalices seems like a wise decision, assuming I want to focus on more synergy and card advantage. However the original purpose of the chalices were more of an attempt to combat the harsh combo match up. Perhaps a little out of left field in terms of overall synergy. The deck does not have much support for it via cavern of souls ect. I feel that it was a broad answer to a narrow problem.

I will continue to brainstorm on more approaches to handle the unfair matchups.

Are any of you running some unconventional mainboard tech in a combo heavy meta?

Teeg gives you game against combo g1. Drs/scooz are md gy hate. Pridemage has won me a game against sns. Killed his omniscience in response to preordain.

[gth842s]

Played in a weekly legacy tournament last night - we had about 20 people, which is on the low end but I still got some good practice in. I've previously played Rhino Fit with a small Stoneforge package but decided to give the list a try minus Stoneforge Mystic because it's such a bad interaction with Pernicious Deed, which this deck really needs to get ahead.

For those that don't want to read a full tournament report, my takeaway was this: Junk Nic Fit is better with Stoneforge Mystic than without it.

My list:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
2 Siege Rhino
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Grave Titan
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas

SB:
1 Council's Judgment
1 Darkblast
1 Engineered Plague
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pithing Needle

Round 1 vs Loam Pox

This is one of the most grindy match-ups imaginable. It was a really fun exchange of games as both of us were using Top to dig for answers and ended up trading back and forth. Game one I punted away by not playing a fetch-land in my hand before activating Titania - one more Elemental token would have won me that game as it took him a few turns to piece together Abrupt Decay + Smallpox for my two creatures. I continue to be incredibly impressed by Titania; she's two 5/3 creatures for 5 60% of the time and three 5/3 creatures for 5 30% of the time (sometimes you have to just run her out without a land in your graveyard or against an active Scooze). Game two went to time as we both brought in more answers; I had a Karakas for Crop Rotation into Marit Lage shenanigans and took one turn too long to find Grave Titan who would have gone on to win me the game.
0-1

Round 2 vs BUG Delver

Game one I managed to therapy away double Force of Will on my first hit and a Maelstrom Pulse on my second, so my Siege Rhino was pretty tough to remove once it landed. I ended up finishing the game by sacrificing Rhino #1 to flash back a Therapy to clear the way for Green Sun's Zenith for the second Rhino (he had bounce and a blocker, so I couldn't have just attacked for the win). If he had been running a less traditional counter - Spell Pierce, for example - this could have gone poorly, but I got game one. Game two my opponent was able to Wasteland me and I couldn't find an explorer in time so I was quickly run over by a Delver, Goyf, and two Deathrite Shamans. I didn't have the mana to play Deed and activate it same turn so it bit an abrupt decay. Game three I resolved Grave Titan on turn four or five followed by Sigarda and there was no way my opponent could race.
1-1

Round 3 vs Shardless BUG

I drew poorly and played even more poorly this round. Game one I couldn't hit Veteran + Therapy and so my opponent had already resolved an Ancestral Visions before I got much of anything going. Jace followed, and I was buried in card advantage. I was about one turn too slow to play Grave Titan and straight-up win this game, which is more of a testament to Grave Titan than anything else as my opponent had already seen something like 6-10 more cards than I had. Game two was long, with lots of back-and-forth play. I missed an opportunity to stay alive vs. his Creeping Tar Pit but otherwise he drew extremely well off the top after I got him with two Hymns. Sometimes they draw Shardless, Decay, Pulse, Liliana! I felt like my deck wanted to grind out my opponent in this matchup, but that's always a shaky prospect against Jace + Liliana.
1-2

My Takeaways:

1. I'm not yet skilled enough as a legacy player to play Rhino Fit without Stoneforge Mystic. The Mystic package gives you something extremely threatening to do on turn two, puts your opponent on his back foot, and lets them spend their time reacting while you ramp or naturally get to 4+ mana where your deck is one of the best "fair" decks in the format. If you have an active Batterskull or Jitte, you probably don't need to be blowing Pernicious Deed anyway. Without equipment, the deck needs to simply grind to stay alive and presents you with many more decisions to make in the course of a game. Each decision is an opportunity to choose poorly and punt the game away.

2. There were several occasions where Dryad Arbor in the main could have eaten a Liliana activation or sacrifice effect for me or could have ramped me on turn one. I'm going to switch Arbor with Stronghold (Stronghold goes to the Sideboard).

3. Tasigur isn't terrible, but is probably worse than Meren of Clan Nel-Toth - I'm going to pick up a copy and try her out.

4. Eternal Witness underperformed (unsurprisingly against Deathrite Shaman and Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog).

5. I need to learn how to sideboard better, specifically against Shardless BUG.

6. I have yet to bring in Council's Judgment - this may just be a variation of #5 - I need to improve my sideboarding.

Time to make some changes; I'm loving the deck. It's hugely customizable and it's incredibly easy to build Nic Fit to suit both your style of play and the metagame in your area. I'd love to hear what you guys think of my write-up and whether it was helpful / how I could write a more helpful summary in the future.

[Ralf]

Played in a weekly legacy tournament last night - we had about 20 people, which is on the low end but I still got some good practice in. I've previously played Rhino Fit with a small Stoneforge package but decided to give the list a try minus Stoneforge Mystic because it's such a bad interaction with Pernicious Deed, which this deck really needs to get ahead.

For those that don't want to read a full tournament report, my takeaway was this: Junk Nic Fit is better with Stoneforge Mystic than without it.

Welcome,

Thank you for sharing a very well written report.

You may find out what you are looking for in this very thread.

Finding the perfect 75/76 for a Abzan Fit build is not an easy task.

I've tested a few iterations/ideas coming from this very thread and I have, long ago, concluded that if you want to play SFM, you have to get rid of Deed and play a more Maverick/Rockish Fit kind of deck.

Your mana curve will be smaller but you won't get to slam 6 CMC big bombs.

If you think that an equipped Sigarda/Rhino is usually enough to get the job done, you might be interested in having a look here.

Several comments on my previous list:

1) My latest tests indicate that 1 SFM is not enough.
->3 should be a good number.

2) 3 SFM should allow the following adjustment:
-1 TS
+1 Cabal Therapy

3) To allow 3 SFM, you have to make some room:
-1 Rhino
-1 STP / TS (depending of your meta; STP if your meta is combo heavy, otherwise TS)

4) I have been particularly impressed by Meren, lately, but in other Nic Fit builds.
One has to assess whether the following change is viable or not:
-1 E.W
+1 Meren

[ironclad8690]

In your guys' opinions is it better to

1) Be able to answer a Sensei's Divining Top and Batterskull 99% of the time guaranteed as well as all other artifacts and enchantments

2) Be able to also answers creatures/planeswalkers/lands/True-Name/hexproof permanents but at the cost of being counterable?

I am playing the Junk version and Krosan Grip has been performing pretty well, I just wonder if Maelstrom Pulse, Council's Judgment, or Vindicate would be better as a 2 of in the sideboard. I am leaning towards Maelstrom for its versatility and ability to clear all tokens, which I think might be more powerful now than ever. I am not that worried about TNN (Judgment) because of Sigarda and Pernicious Deed, and I rarely want to destroy lands instead of Permanents (Vindicate), because Sigarda is just an insane endgame (and Grave Titan as my 6 drop). Lately there have been many times where I wanted to answer a planeswalker or a bunch of Young Pyro/Monk tokens (and even lingering souls), so I am leaning towards Maelstrom, but destroying a top, batterskull, or counterbalance is really nice with the Grip.

It's funny actually, of all the matchups to be doing poorly in I am having the most trouble with Esper Stoneblade. The last couple of times I have played against them it gets to this weird point where we are both hellbent and despite my 4 sensei's divining tops, they always seem to have a higher velocity with brainstorm/ponder into a 3-4 turn clock (lingering tokens/SFM->Equips/TNN/Jace). In an ironic way they actually have the power to out tempo us by playing hard counters instead of soft counters (explorer trigger nets them ability to more easily hold up counterspell while being proactive).

I was playing the Pod variant up until just recently when it hit me that you want to be playing Path instead of Baleful Strix because of the high concentration of Lightning Bolt decks on magic online. In theory Baleful seems amazing vs all delver decks but a lightning bolt or forked bolt can just put them too far ahead. Junk at least gives you 1 mana spells to buy yourself time (which is all you need in any lightning bolt matchup).

\end rant

Anyhow what do you guys think of Grip vs Pulse?

[aicnelavo]

4) I have been particularly impressed by Meren, lately, but in other Nic Fit builds.
One has to assess whether the following change is viable or not:
-1 E.W
+1 Meren

I'd consider
E.W.
meren
2 stoneforges

Seeing as both ew and meren can reccur the stoneforges. Plus drawing equipment isnt too bad in abzanfit

[Ralf]

I'd consider
E.W.
meren
2 stoneforges

Seeing as both ew and meren can reccur the stoneforges. Plus drawing equipment isnt too bad in abzanfit

Yeah. Whatever !

As long it does not stress your mana curve too much as it is not a typical Nic Fit.

[Ralf]

Anyhow what do you guys think of Grip vs Pulse?

Since Omni has lost a lot of followers, I would stick with Maelstrom.
I guess you should play 1 pulse MD.

By the way, if token strategies is causing you some troubles, I would rather play a permanent hate in the sideboard:
- Engineered plague
- NoSB

BSK would still be a pain. But at least, you might be able to get rid of it through a perfect sequence involving a deed/pulse + a cabal therapy.

Care to share your list ?

[ironclad8690]

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Grave Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Swords to Plowshares (I have debated on this before because path makes more sense with explorer, but in reality we're almost never the aggro deck, and if we are the aggro deck giving them lands really hurts, ie miracles/stoneblade)
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Recurring Nightmare

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Choke (Debating if planeswalkers are actually just better, like Garruk Primal Hunter/Apex Predator/Relentless/Ajani Mentor/Elspeth, KE/Sun's Champion/Red splash for Xenagos/Ugin/Ob Nix have all been serious considerations)
2 Maelstrom Pulse


I am just a big fan of the numbers in this list. Primeval titan used to occupy 6 slot, but as has been said before when you draw a zenith Thragtusk and Sigarda are often just better targets anyways. I used to play 4 Sensei's top, but I found it challenging to shuffle extras away. I am really not a fan of Meren, because keeping her around for both advantages is too hard, and I really dislike equipment and sylvan library alongside pernicious deed. Haven't really felt like I needed painful truths either, in my testing it was clunky even against the control decks like blade where it should be good. Considering picking up Containment Priests now that they are only $12 on modo and cutting a surgical extraction and either a thoughtseize or an ethersworn.

Also playing without Sigarda or Thrun is just blasphemy. Sigarda is the #1 way we beat control decks, plain and simple. Yes, they can Council's Judgment. Yes, they can Toxic Deluge. I have always been a fan of the "make them have it" school of thought, and I attribute at least 75% of my wins against Miracles to Sigarda and 90% of my wins against Shardless to Sigarda. Thrun is really just nice to have if they somehow deal with Sigarda, for backup mostly.

[rubblekill]

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Grave Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Swords to Plowshares (I have debated on this before because path makes more sense with explorer, but in reality we're almost never the aggro deck, and if we are the aggro deck giving them lands really hurts, ie miracles/stoneblade)
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Recurring Nightmare

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Choke (Debating if planeswalkers are actually just better, like Garruk Primal Hunter/Apex Predator/Relentless/Ajani Mentor/Elspeth, KE/Sun's Champion/Red splash for Xenagos/Ugin/Ob Nix have all been serious considerations)
2 Maelstrom Pulse


I am just a big fan of the numbers in this list. Primeval titan used to occupy 6 slot, but as has been said before when you draw a zenith Thragtusk and Sigarda are often just better targets anyways. I used to play 4 Sensei's top, but I found it challenging to shuffle extras away. I am really not a fan of Meren, because keeping her around for both advantages is too hard, and I really dislike equipment and sylvan library alongside pernicious deed. Haven't really felt like I needed painful truths either, in my testing it was clunky even against the control decks like blade where it should be good. Considering picking up Containment Priests now that they are only $12 on modo and cutting a surgical extraction and either a thoughtseize or an ethersworn.

Also playing without Sigarda or Thrun is just blasphemy. Sigarda is the #1 way we beat control decks, plain and simple. Yes, they can Council's Judgment. Yes, they can Toxic Deluge. I have always been a fan of the "make them have it" school of thought, and I attribute at least 75% of my wins against Miracles to Sigarda and 90% of my wins against Shardless to Sigarda. Thrun is really just nice to have if they somehow deal with Sigarda, for backup mostly.

Really like your list, but I think tusk is a "wasted" slot now that we have 4 rhinos.

[ironclad8690]

Really like your list, but I think tusk is a "wasted" slot now that we have 4 rhinos.

Yes, to each their own, I would definitely cut the 4th Rhino before the 1st Thragtusk though. Trust me, Thragtusk is amazing vs Miracles which is one of the most common decks, and the life gain is really important. Even just this week I won at least 1 match I shouldn't have exclusively because of the 5 life gain trigger. Even with the Rhinos I just really want the padding vs aggressive decks and the value vs control/midrange decks. I will even put forward an anecdote about a Storm match where, due to a fast Phyrexian Tower, I was able to outrace them with Thragtusk.

[sdematt]

You're still a bit wrong on the school of thought behind Path. You really don't care about the lands, you ONLY care about Jace in that matchup. So, you should worry only if they have Jace, because all their other cards? They just don't matter, and realistically, life total still does. You're not the aggressor, true, but it changes the way they play their game. The drain life is a relevant thing. If you're negating it, why not just play another trampling creature? The life swings, especially against Blade, matter. It means they have to try and race you with Jitte, or realistically, Batterskull has to start to be strapped onto a creature to combat a Rhino. You know what sucks there? You have decay to blow out their guy after Equipping, or whatever. Really don't underestimate that life swing.

I like Walkers or more Sigarda better than Choke, at least right now. The cards you hate to see from each are in brackets. The blue decks you're fighting are Blade (Jace, Batterskull), Delver (Angler, Batterskull, Peezy at times), Shardless (Jace, Liliana, Visions), Miracles (Jace, Entreat, Council's Judgment, Top), and the other decks are Elves (Hoof), Storm (LED, Infernal, Tendrils, PIF), and maybe another deck like Loam (Knight, Chalice). Cards that are really doing work here include Grip, Needle, Thoughtseize, Teeg, etc. Teeg is the biggest non-bo, but he's still excellent.

-Matt

[uncletiggy]

@ironclad- our lists are very similar once you look past some of my variety and the fact that im on a small stoneforge package vs having a top end. I've recently come to the conclusion that qasali pridmage is better in the deck them sage. Meren has no bearing on this as im still a firm believer in nightmare plus rhino. Despite not leaving a body behind for looping pridemage cracking at instant speed, pumping rhino to combat angler and playing around spell pierce a turn earlier have all come up for me. I'd advise giving him a whirl.

Side note updates to my list on 124:
-1 sage
-1 stronghold
-1 g charm
+1 qp mage
+1 marshflats
+1 pulse
The md creature flex slot went to courser.

[Ipitythefool]

Hey! Just built this as my first legacy deck because I already had most the cards. I'm running the punishing fire version though cause I didn't have the manabase for the junk version. I'm playing a small legacy tournament at my LGS and was wondering if anyone had tips against shardless bug? Anything I should def have in my sideboard. I have a feeling it might not be a great match up but please let me know. Thank you!

[sdematt]

Hey! Just built this as my first legacy deck because I already had most the cards. I'm running the punishing fire version though cause I didn't have the manabase for the junk version. I'm playing a small legacy tournament at my LGS and was wondering if anyone had tips against shardless bug? Anything I should def have in my sideboard. I have a feeling it might not be a great match up but please let me know. Thank you!

It's actually not bad, since Fires kills all their creatures and helps handle Liliana and walkers. I'd recommend 4 Fires at the moment, 4 Grove, and an Intent to tutor the combo.

Remember Scooze also can do a bunch of work against their Goyfs and Deathrites, so I'd say don't be afraid to run 2 if you have to. Truths will help you keep up with their card draw of Visions.

-Matt

[I_Hate_Counterspells]

Remember Scooze also can do a bunch of work against their Goyfs and Deathrites......
-Matt

There's Matt with the Scooze love again. Get a room!

[Ricardio]

Played in the daily last night
2-1. 4c pfire loam
1-2 tin fins sb dday
2-1 burg delver
2-0 burg delver

Went up to 4 decay bc how saturated the mtgo meta is, also carpets in the side.
I COULD NOT find someone selling a Meren so I played ajani mentor instead.

[Warden]

There's Matt with the Scooze love again. Get a room!

It's actually a Ménage à trois with Matt, Scooze, and Truths. But in reality, he's correct conceptually. Scooze eats into goyf/DRS and truths (or some card draw thing) keeps pace.

[Barook]

I COULD NOT find someone selling a Meren so I played ajani mentor instead.

Goatbots have them and are pretty reliable.