@Brael, can you elaborate on the keeping griselbrand and emrakul at bay circumstance please? Would like to hear that story :)
I only play magic (and NicFit) for a bit less than a year but people do seem to say things like "Oh, NicFit must be good in this meta." or "I've been meaning to build a NicFit deck." more frequently after the dig ban.Originally Posted by Bobmans
Thanks to all the recent discussion. I leaned quite a bit.
I made a few changes to my deck (again) and decided to try out living wish two times main. I like the painful truth idea but as i am of the opinion somebody expressed in a discussion about Painful Truth vs. Read the bones saying if you are looking for card quality you take bones and if you are looking for quantity you are take bones (with the sidenote that he/she would never play either in legacy). With living wish i guess i am able to get a specific answer or threat which takes this idea a bit further.
Also i noticed that the statistical breakdown of played maverick cards (in the first post of the maverick primer) is a great place if you are looking for cute stuff.
So I just top 8'deck the warm up iq at togit near the scg open location last night. 4-1-1 in Swiss and lost in 90 minutes, 3 games to Joe Lossett. Running the same 75 today. I'll post more details when I'm back home.
I was at 23 life so I had enough to survive the 22 they would deal to me. My opponent was at 2.
My board was Rhino, 2 Veteran Explorers (with 4 basics still in my library), Meren (0 exp counters), Pridemage, and Thrun. I couldn't profitably attack but neither could my opponent. I also had a Sylvan Library but I didn't want to draw any cards with it since I could be hit for 22, so it was just doing some filtering. I don't remember the exact sequence that got us to that board state but it involved S&T bringing in Meren and Thrun for me, and then Meren brought back my Explorers and at some point I cast the Rhino, and I had slowed the game down a lot with an opening of Explorer+2 Cabal Therapy.
Basically, my opponent couldn't attack. If just the Griselbrand swung he would go to 9 and I had 9 after his Emrakul blocked something. If just the Emrakul attacked the same thing would happen. If I attacked into two blockers my opponent would just eat my two best creatures and gain life, which would then safely let him draw cards.
I broke the stalemate after a couple turns by picking up a Rhino off of Sylvan Library. My opponent had mentioned that his best line at that time was to attack with Griselbrand, draw 7, and hope to find the cards to replay a Griselbrand on defense he already had the Griselbrand in hand so he would have been looking for one of his two remaining Show and Tells since I could Pridemage a Sneak Attack in his second main. After the game he checked the top of his library and he would have missed on that line.
Atleast, that's how it went to the best of my recollection. Show and Tell was round 1 (that story being game 3) and then after the 3 rounds of Legacy we did 4 rounds of Modern and I didn't use paper to track any of it so some things might be fuzzy.
Hello fellow Nic Fitters, first time poster here.
After reading nearly every page of this thread, I finally decided to join in.
I play Junk Nic Fit for about a year now, my current list is pretty similar to the one of Bobmans on p.131 (with some budget restrictions regarding the land base and thinking about cutting 1 Stoneforge Mystic once I can get my hands on new Meren)
Some thoughts:
1. I think the SFM-package is essential to stabilize versus "fast" non-combo decks like e.g. goblins, delver, maybe even merfolk and so on, but can also win you games when you get the 9/9 flying/hexproof/lifelink/vigilance Sigarda or a Rhino with an active Jitte.
2. Pernicious Deed. This card has won me so many games vs. fair decks, no way playing less than 3. It's our best option in so many matchups (last weeks playtesting against Death'n'Taxes with black splash for dark confident and thoughtseize resulted in 4-0-1 for me, mostly thanks to Deed).
3. Don't know about Painful Truths. Sometimes it's nuts, sometimes it just gets a needed card I would get from top anyway at the cost of a card + 3 life.
4. Last weeks, I was sadly disappointed about Siege Rhino, too. Yes, Siege Rhino. So depressing when facing 6/7 goyfs or 8/8 knights. Most times it was just an overcosted lightning helix with no impact. Maybe just matchup dependent..
5. Regarding the sideboard, 1 Teeg plus 2 Canonists plus some point discard/extractions felt extremely powerful in combo matchups G2 & G3.
Last but not least, I realized some of you generally win 2-0 vs. Shardless. My experiences were the other way round: Their visions are pure CA, Liliana & Hymn raping my hand, goyf & Tar Pit doing the rest. Help appreciated!
(p.s. Nic Fit not only being my favorite deck, this is also my favorite mtg thread. Go on guys!)
I could not agree more then this. Points 3 & 4 especially. Like i said in p 131, the effect of Sensei's Divining Top 1: ability eot is nearly the same. Yes, i agree with Ralf that it is a "slow" engine, but often 2 out of 3 cards are not useful plus this deck loves the long game, so i feel that quality > advantage any day with this (type of) deck.
Siege Rhino, i am really starting to have a love/hate relationship with this card. Sometimes it just races, other times i just stare at 4 mana clunkiness.
Very curious about what others are gonna say about Shardless MU. Never once played against it with NicFit, but it seems like a slightly worse version of BUG Delver (due to the cardadvantage).
Today i was gonna play at a tournament, but as life happened and i could not go. Instead i went out and found myself some Japanese cards to complete my list (Meren of Clan Nel Toth). So final changes are (thanks to Ralf and Echelon) to the p 131 list:
- Forest
- Courser of Kruphix
+ Knight of the Reliquary
+ Dryad Arbor
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I'm sure others can elaborate more, plus most of my experience is with BUG I've only had the one shot with Junk now. The key I found with BUG was that all of your cards are 2 for 1's, even if they're also generating 2 for 1's with Liliana, Hymn, Agent, and Visions you should still be generating more of them. In BUG you generate absurd quality too because Birthing Pod turns every card into whatever is optimal. Let me give you a typical sequence over a few turns
TX - Pod Eternal Witness into Meren, EoT return Eternal Witness to hand.
TX + 1 - Play Baleful Strix, pod Strix (1 exp counter) into Trinket Mage. Trinket Mage tutors Hangarback Walker. Play Hangarback Walker for 0 (2 exp counter), play Eternal Witness return Hangarback Walker to hand. EoT return Baleful Strix to play.
You mention Ancestral Visions being a problem, well that sequence I just named on turn X+1 draws you 5 cards (2x Strix, 1x Witness, 1x Trinket Mage, 1x Meren) while putting stuff onto the board and you can get similar levels of advantage every turn. Their best plays are Shardless into Visions for 3 cards but your typical play is to get 3 cards. They just can't keep up, and while they will disrupt you for a long time they eventually just run out of resources and lose.
Junk is pretty similar except you're not using pod, what won me my games was Courser of Kruphix+Top, it's a pretty absurd combo. Every turn you basically get to pay 1 mana for 1-2 life (sometimes you'll hit a fetch which you can then crack for free) and 1 card, in a grindy matchup that quickly turns into some real advantage.
The early game really comes down to Cabal Therapy which I've found to be true in most matchups actually. The guide is completely correct in my opinion, it's what I've modeled my calls on and it has yet to really let me down. Brainstorm G1 and G2 play, and Hymn G2 draw. If their opening in G2 is Tropical Island on the draw though I divert from the guide. If you call anything here they'll Brainstorm so it's best to hold your Therapy and hope they fire it off early. Tropical probably signifies Shardless Agent so that's what I would call there. Alternatively if they cast a DRS off of the Tropical it could mean either Hymn or Brainstorm (or T2 Agent).
This is so underestimated. Courser + Top: Cardadvantage, increased mana development, life gain and land filtering which increases card quality.
More then a year ago i also ran 2 Domri Rade in my PFire list (as an experiment). While Domri was underwhelming, having the triple card combo was just sic.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
DP warning. Just couldn't resist on reworking the PFire list. For that i am including Meren. The list is nearly reworked, but there some (minor) open ends.
Main:
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 open slot
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
Sideboard:
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Golgari Charm
2 Blood Moon
1 open slot
For now i am on the 3/3 split between Veteran and DRS. 3/4 was a bit to much and i don't want to go lower on DRS as it is a miracle worker.
1: Maelstrom Pulse is probably slightly better then a Kolaghan's Command in the current meta.
2: With Meren + Eternal Witness i do not see the need of Volrath's Stronghold. As much as i hate to see it go, i will probably add another coloured mana or Kessig Wolf Run to the deck.
3: With Meren i see more value in Reclamation Sage, but i am not sure if i want Sage in the MD or in the SB.
4: The open MD slot is where normally your 6 drop is at. With a Courser MD i do not feel the need to run Primeval Titan. The card has been mediocre. Of all the creatures i have been most impressed by Stormbreath Dragon. But running that card means a couple of things. A. Running a second Mountain MD (with a total of 7 basics), it will cost you games not being able to dig up the 2nd mountain with Veteran. B. because it is not green, running 2 would be better. Aka just like Baneslayer Angel in the white lists. C. It would also mean that Thrun becomes less usefull, since SBD dodges most of the hate aswell. Otherwise, the 2nd SBD can fill the slot of R.Sage and moves it to the SB.
5: If not going for SBD, then what 6- (or 7drop) would be a good call. Already tested cards: Charnelhoard Wurm, this card is a real nightmare IF it connects. 7 mana is a lot, but when playing SBD i always was able to get that 7 mana to pump the SBD the turn or two after it was cast. So i might just be able to pull it of to run a CMC 7 instead.
Rampaging Baloth, provided some dangerous pressure that was nearly comparable with Grave Titan. Especially with Courser in play (or Veteran Explorer).
Then some of the latest set cards: Skysnare Spider, Vigilance is a very nice ability, being able to pressure and block with a 6/6 boady (and with Reach) seem solid. Then we have Arbor Colossus, This has a 6/6 body with Reach and destroy's a flyer upon entering the battlefield for 5 mana. For 6 mana it becomes a 9/9 body. I do miss Trample on this one (or Vigilance).
6: Blood Moon is a solid card against lands. Along with Slaughter Games, which is good against Storm and Miracles, these provide some useful cards against a couple of the current meta decks as seen in the New Jersey . Comparing against the rest of the New Jersey decks, PFire NicFit seems to be a solid contender.
Thoughts?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I know that I will be insulted for this, but I'll say it anyway.
What about Tendrils of Despair? I'm sure it has been tested already, but I think it could be a decent option, not really for it's main effect but because it allow us to have more chance to abuse our best friend's ramp ability.
One black mana to sac explorer and put in play 2 lands, plus the discard 2 (not at random) which is a decent bonus in my opinion.
I'm no expert with this deck, so I wanted to ask the big nic-fit.dec guys here (Ralf, Bobmans, Ricardo?)
I was saying you should have a Broodmate Dragon but then saw you had only one Huntermaster. You muste have at least two huntmaster in jund version. He is so good.
You should keep Volrath Stronghold in the deck as well, wolfrun is a bit win more I think.
3 things come to mind when seeing this.
1. To play the card, you need a creature to sacrifice. 2. The effect falls short for a must effect in opposite of Diabolic Intent. 3. The opponent gets to choose, Hymn to Tourach would do a more reasonable job. All in all it does what we want, but in every way to little to impress m2c.
Broodmate Dragon is a card i would never run. Played back in 2012 and never did anything. Moving on.
2 Huntmasters have been performing very well. Solid consideration, perhaps in the RecSage slot MD. But that does not solve the absense of a big dude. Which can still be SBD. If so Kessig will obviously not make the cut. Probably be a color land > stronghold > kessig.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Primeval is my 6 drop of choice in punishing fit.
With woolfrun in your list, titan is a 2 turn clock, that only dies on swords or terminus, but that let all your explorer attack for 6+ for the rest of the gameHe is inevitability ! (but yeah I get how he could be win more)
Been trying to think of ways to abuse Meren today and came to the idea of creatures that sacrifice themselves. At first I thought of Evoke creatures but the only one that seems halfway usable is Shriekmaw and not being green is a factor. The next thought I had was Echo creatures and that brought up Hunting Moa, Deranged Hermit, and Multani's Acolyte. Do any of these seem remotely viable to anyone else?
Fleshbag?
A follow up to the list I posted. I played at my LGS 2-0 miracles, 1-2 Merfolk. 2-1 BUG goodstuff, 1-2, and RUG 1-2. Two bad keeps, and I disliked seeing Karakas early, its moving to the board. Vindicate was a pornstar.
1 Question though, how do you deal with lands other then the two Paths for marit lage?
Pressure them with discard early on taking out stuff like Crop, Gamble, etc. Surgical Extraction on Dark Depths when they flip it with Loam. Or Loam itself. Take out Punishing fire with Slaughter Games or DRS. And random stuff like Pithing Needle on Maze of Ith. Also i'd keep in either Deed or Decay for stuff like Molten Vortex. Even then, its still hard. They will most likely Waste your Karakas. Plus they eot the Lochness monster so things like Liliana are useless. Its no joke playong that mu.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
It's nice to toolbox with RecSage but Huntermaster is much better card in so many match up. You want at least two in your deck.
If you have wolfrun in the deck, then Primeval Titan is a good card in the deck. But as you said: It's win more. The two untily lands Tower and Stronghold can help you to advance and get back from the game, so Wolfrun is not so needed.Primeval is my 6 drop of choice in punishing fit.
With woolfrun in your list, titan is a 2 turn clock, that only dies on swords or terminus, but that let all your explorer attack for 6+ for the rest of the game
If you are going to play witha 6 drop you should play with Broodmate Dragon. Thing Broodmate is better then Titan:
*More power (8>6)
*More Bodys (You have to remove two cretures)
*Has flying (Don't get chmupblocked by ground cretures and blocks 3/X flyger as a bodd (Delver and Vendlion)
You get so much more from Broodmate and do not need other cards in the deck to make it good(Like titan wants unitly lands)
No love for Ruric Thar in Jund?
He's massive, has reach AND vigilance, he destroys cantrip decks and punishes the opponent if they manage to remove him.
Better than that 6 mana spider anyway :P
Ruric Thar is actually the closest to what i want to play, but the thing with this card is that it can also lock yourself out of the game. Plus it should shine against storm, where it will never see play due to its CMC.No love for Ruric Thar in Jund?
He's massive, has reach AND vigilance, he destroys cantrip decks and punishes the opponent if they manage to remove him.
Better than that 6 mana spider anyway
So to sum up the realistic options, this is where i'm at. Huntmaster #2 MD with RecSage in the SB is a fact.
1: Volrath' Stronghold + Thrun + Broodmate Dragon
2: Kessig Wolf Run + Thrun + Primeval Titan
3: 2nd Mountain + 2x Stormbreath Dragon
Mind that in option 2 Kessig Wolf Run could also be a Treetop Village or Raging Ravine. A manland is strong on it's own plus it makes coloured mana. Ravine makes R, which also works for PFire.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
This is my current list. I would love some input here because I'm not very experienced with the wish build and kinda lost. Mainly I wanted to try sth different but the added toolbox effect suits me fine. Now i just need to sort that toolbox.
I found Karador makes (kinda) a lot of sense (probably just my definition of sense) in top-deck scenarios against discard heavy decks. You wouldn't want do gsz him but topdecking into through living wish can make a lost game into a win (considering most or at least some of your creatures will be in graveyard by then; if your manabase isn't there yet in topdeck mode you were probably fucked anyway). Considering the other real option is obstinate baloth (which i think is horrible) this can be really good. Also the holy trinity between Phyrexian Tower - Meren - Kharador is just beatiful. I should probably just finish my edh deck...
Also i really lost faith in recurring nightmare. it feels too situational, too counterplay affected (just shoot the dude), isn't there when you need it, is there when you don't need it
Lands:
Bayou
3 Forest
Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
Savannah
Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Dudes:
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
Gaddock Teeg
Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
Reclamation Sage
Meren, of some Clan
3 Siege Rhino
Sigarda
Non-Dudes:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 GSZ
2 Path to Exile
3 Sensei's Diving Top
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Living Wish
Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
SB:
Bojuka Bog
Karakas
Phyrexian Revoker
Night of Souls' Betrayal
Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
Krosan Grip
Melira, Sylvok Outcast (I don't accept losing to infect. Just, no.)
Thrun, the Last Troll
Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
Karador, Ghost Sth
Orzhov Pontiff
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