[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ricardio]

Some creatures I though about at work:

Krosan beast - 4cmc 8/8
Giant solifuge - haste shroud 4/1
Troll ascetic - hex proof
Terrovore
River boa - personal favorite
Loxodon smiter
Xenagod

What do you all think?

[rubblekill]

Some creatures I though about at work:

Krosan beast - 4cmc 8/8
Giant solifuge - haste shroud 4/1
Troll ascetic - hex proof
Terrovore
River boa - personal favorite
Loxodon smiter
Xenagod

What do you all think?

I have thought about smiter myself, but the "discard ability" is not really amazing in legacy (only good vs bug), and the uncounterability is not that good If you play only 1 as a gsz target..and at that point for a 3 drop id rather have kotr, a card that i have been liking lately as 1of

Ascetic is a bad thrun and krosan beast is a vanilla monster..i think these creatures are only cute..we d rather play thrun because at least he has some sort of protection..sigarda thrun are the monsters i like: "safe" creatures that force the opponent to have terminus

[Bobmans]

There are better options. I do like your taking time to dug thru the creatures and suggest stuff.

Krosan beast < Wolfir Silverheart
Giant solifuge: most interesting of the bunch. Only that it gets chumped by everything.
Troll ascetic < Thrun
Terrovore < Tarmogoyf
River boa < Strangleroot Geist / Scryb Ranger
Loxodon smiter < Thrun < Obstinate Baloth
Xenagod: doesn't have enough impact and is not good on its own. Might be in the slot of Meren.

[Ricardio]

There are better options. I do like your taking time to dug thru the creatures and suggest stuff.

Krosan beast < Wolfir Silverheart
Giant solifuge: most interesting of the bunch. Only that it gets chumped by everything.
Troll ascetic < Thrun
Terrovore < Tarmogoyf
River boa < Strangleroot Geist / Scryb Ranger
Loxodon smiter < Thrun < Obstinate Baloth
Xenagod: doesn't have enough impact and is not good on its own. Might be in the slot of Meren.

Beast is an 8/8 for 4 by itself.
Goyf is 2. 3 cmc is less likely for a deed sweep and will often times be bigger.
I like boa for the island walking.
Xenagod won't get bounced by karakas or swords'd

[Ganfar]

No we don't.

Okey, how much do we lose to it?

It's better then Carpet becasue you can attack and block with veteran. Carpet only gives your mama but don't make you win games. It's better to have sideborad against combo.

[Bobmans]

Beast is an 8/8 for 4 by itself.
Goyf is 2. 3 cmc is less likely for a deed sweep and will often times be bigger.
I like boa for the island walking.
Xenagod won't get bounced by karakas or swords'd

Ok

Edit: Arianrhod, i have been digging the new and old thread for your analysis of what creature need to bring to NicFit lists, but was unable to find it after an hour of search or so. If you read this, can you post it? Perhaps it deserves a chapter in the OP? Some are lost in the shit load of creatures that NicFit has access to.

[Jain_Mor]

I wouldn't totally write off troll ascetic, it's obviously worse than Thrun, but it could be good if you already have a Thrun. I've been considering it in my SFM builds because, well hexproof and equipment... It gives you a really nice curve of options as well if you want it:

3 CMC
Card advantage: E wit
Resilient sword carrier: troll ascetic

4 CMC
Card advantage: Meren
Resilient sword carrier: Thrun

5 CMC
Card advantage: Tragtusk
Resilient sword carrier: Sigarda

Being able to make your opponents removal dead or always a 1 for 2 is pretty great, something that knight and rhino can't do.

Edit, for example:

2 Top
4 Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Vindicate
1 Painful Truths

4 SFM
1 SoFaF
1 SoFaI
1 BSK

4 GSun
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Vet Exp
1 Scooze
1 Ewit
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Meren
1 Thrun
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda

21 lands plus the dryad arbor
4 Verdant
4 Windswept
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrub
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
61 card special, cut the tusk, a diabolic intent or troll ascetic if you want 60


That's 8 sac outlets and 8 vets and 4 SFM you're happy to sac in the early game. Got card advantage out the ears, 10 tutor effects (and two tops and a recall) that can fetch removal, life gain, hand pressure, clocks and your sideboard cards. You can vet into therapy and go massive with deed/Gsun or you can pressure early with SFM etc etc

[gth842s]

I replace them with at least 2 carpets..people often even force it when I play it turn 1

Similar experience here. Great way to bait out a Force and even better for the home team if it resolves.

[Arianrhod]

Ok

Edit: Arianrhod, i have been digging the new and old thread for your analysis of what creature need to bring to NicFit lists, but was unable to find it after an hour of search or so. If you read this, can you post it? Perhaps it deserves a chapter in the OP? Some are lost in the shit load of creatures that NicFit has access to.

I don't know that I'll have any better luck finding it. I'm planning on updating the primer with recent developments at some point in the fairly near future, since it's been a good 6-8 months since it's been touched. I could see about adding a section then, sure.

Everything's been pretty quiet around me magic-wise the last couple of weeks, mostly because thanksgiving holiday. Going to Mythic next Saturday for their next 2k, just going to run back my previous list with a couple of minor changes which I'll post at some point either before or after the event. It's basically the same list, just a couple tunes. I should've been 6-0 in the matches I played on the day, so I can't really complain about anything (should've beat bug delver in r1g3 as previously noted; but I also found a line whereby I would've beat Bryant as well).

[rubblekill]

Is diabolic intent a must as a 1 of in the deck? People that play it, has it been a powerful option in your experience?

[sdematt]

Is diabolic intent a must as a 1 of in the deck? People that play it, has it been a powerful option in your experience?

The card gets better when you're running more cards that aren't grabbed by GSZ - Baneslayer, Recurring Nightmare, P. Fires, Grove, etc. I think Junk, it's fine, I think it's better in Jund since assembling the Fires engine is the way to really win in that deck. It has been powerful when I played it, but when I cut Nightmare, I cut it.

I think if you own one, try it out, and if you don't, the ten or so Euro expense is worth it.

[Jain_Mor]

Is diabolic intent a must as a 1 of in the deck? People that play it, has it been a powerful option in your experience?

I like it because if you run SFM it means you can up the number of cards that require saccing your creatures, which means you can more consistently sac your veterans.

I like it because this curve is very plowerful: T1 Vet Exp, T2 Diabolic intent fetch SFM cast SFM fetch BSK (or sword).
They then bolt or decay or whatever the SFM and next turn you can untap and cast BSK.

That sequence also works great when you board in hate bears against the combo decks (Canonist/teeg/RIP)

I also like it because in the late game it's better than therapy and can fetch your deeds or whatever spice/hate you have.

And finally, against grindy attrition matchups (BUG/Jund/Lands/Aggro Loam), I know they don't run STP so my Veterans will die eventually and discard is pretty poor, so I board out my therapies, but the intents stay in because the matchups are about threats and end up in top deck wars, so saccing a dryad arbor off a fetch or a lone SFM for a demonic tutor is sweet.

Hope that all makes sense

[rubblekill]

For the lols, for those that appreciate and play ascetic, have you ever thought about skylasher?
Thanks matt and jain

[Bobmans]

For the lols, for those that appreciate and play ascetic, have you ever thought about skylasher?
Thanks matt and jain

Scryb Ranger has less power in combat (doesn't kill Delver), but giving a Wild Growth to Forest/Bayou/Taiga AND Vigilance to creatures is nice to. Plus, depending on the build, it adds value to Dryad Arbor and Knight of the Reliquary. Or just multiple DRS activations per turn.

[Jain_Mor]

Yea I once played maverick in my first big local legacy tournament and had scryb ranger in my build cause everyone else did. I soon understood why, gives you so many tricks and sweet plays like bobmans said. I came 4th in the end, a lot of the Japanese scene hadn't seen maverick before so that was cool, and from then on I was sold on legacy and green sun zenith, migrated over from modern and then found the source.

So thanks scryb ranger :)

But... When you are playing deed have to expect a lot from things that cost less than 3 CMC and scryb or skylasher don't cut it unfortunately :/

[pettdan]

@Scryb Ranger: Scryb Ranger is good when you have a lot of mana producing creatures (one Scryb adds two mana per turn) and other creatures with tap abilities (one Scryb Ranger tripples the amount of possible activations), it is one of my favourite cards and I have found some pet deck built entirely around it. So for Nic Fit it is usually irrelevant since you have practically zero creatures with tap abilities (Deathrite the obvious exception, perhaps some more) and due to the CMC like already stated.

@Creature characteristics for inclusion in Nic Fit, here is a rough list:
- Not dying to Lightning Bolt.
- Not dying (exiling) to Swords to Plowshares.
- Not dying to Abrupt Decay.
- CMC above 2-3 for better Pernicous Deed activations. Or having persist.
- Not being targetable by Karakas.
- Tutorability (i.e. Green for GSZ or Equipment with Stoneforge, Enchantment with Academy Rector, CMC 1-5 with Birthing Pod, etc)

In addition to this there are some desirable properties, like...
- Extra life gain
- Card Advantage (e.g. Eternal Witness, Broodmate Dragon, Primeval Titan, Huntmaster of the Fells)
- Interfere with combo decks (e.g. Glen Elendra Archmage, Scavenging Ooze)
- Remove common threats upon entering the battlefield (e.g. Reclamation Sage, Qasali Pridemage, Shriekmaw)
- Quick clock (e.g. Grave Titan)
- Surviving against Liliana of the Veil (e.g. Sigarda, Host of Herons)
- Evasion (e.g. Sigarda, Host of Herons)
- Being relevant when facing Terminus (e.g. Thragtusk)
- Killing a Jace, the Mind Sculptor (e.g. Sigarda, Host of herons; Thragtusk)
- Haste is great since it helps killing Planeswalkers (e.g. Stormbreath Dragon, Strangleroot Geist)

[rubblekill]

I don't know how to put it in a spoiler window, so sorry in advance. On the carpet of flowers topic:
http://i.imgur.com/rc4jsgU.jpg

Won that game because the opponent didn't know that terminus's cmc is 6, so he conceded when he couldn't cast it with the miracle trigger on the stack. Teeg was on the battlefield.

E: this guy was bad, but they seem to force carpet more often than you might think

[Bobmans]

E: this guy was bad, but they seem to force carpet more often than you might think

People find Carpet scary in big monster weird tech.dec. they are afraid we go nuts beyond their control to fast.

Your opponent was a true digital pimp with his guru basics. Haha how lame.

[rubblekill]

People find Carpet scary in big monster weird tech.dec. they are afraid we go nuts beyond their control to fast.

Your opponent was a true digital pimp with his guru basics. Haha how lame.

And I am the poor guy using deltas and mires

[Hmmm_Really?]

Or if you don't like POD:

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Veteran Explorer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman

3 Liliana of the Veil

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Sylvan Library

2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay

2 Painful Truths
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares

@Ralf, regarding your non-Pod Rock-Fit version (sorry, I can't bring myself to the 'A' word) could I get your opinion on:

1) Only 1 Sylvan Library? Could we squeeze another one in? Move Qasali or a Lili to the SB?

2) Why no Karakas? Mana base too fragile?

3) Same for Volrath's Stronghold and/or a Recurring Nightmare and/or Diabolic Intent? Too much cuteness?

Here's what I'm looking to try...

Lands //21 excl. Dryad
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs

(14/14/14 for B, G or W excl. Dryad)

Spells //26
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Vindicate
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Painful Truths
2 Sylvan Library

Creatures //14 incl. Dryad
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Veteran Explorer

Sideboard //tuned for my LGS
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 2 Thoughtseize


Thanks in advance for your thoughts.