Looking to get into legacy, have loved nic fit for a while now, specifically pod and all the abzan decks. My question is how viable is Abzan pod (is bug pod just better)? It seems to me like Abzan pod can play similar to the old modern angel pod deck, plus it gets access to academy rector tutoring up pernicious deeds and recurring nightmares. If anyone has an abzan pod list they've been playing, how is it working out?
Yes, your thoughts are yours ;-)Originally Posted by Echelon
Luckily the deck can fully rely on it's basic lands, because of it's numbers. 6 was wrong. and 1 Mountain was to. Often it is easy to prioritize the double color requirements, being BB, then GG and last RR. Depending on the game/hand it can sometimes be GG, BB and then RR. Typically you'd want Bayou, Forest and Swamp (in any order) followed by Mountain, Grove or Grove, Mountain. Most of the time your able to land this configuration (or something similar). A 7th fetch should fix any possible flaws more then another dual. It is not so much the actual sources, but more the path's leading to it. Grove is an exception here, since you need it for your PFire combo and it cannot be fetched. Getting the combo only is so important that i would not go lower then 4. Going for Swamp 3 over Forest 3 is also dangerous since G is the most important color for the deck. Playing out the manabase with this deck can be difficult to achieve, but it is often pretty doable. Thinking about the evaluation of my signature list, i think that this manabase is as close as it gets from being perfect.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Here you might be able to find what you are looking for.
Start with 2 veteran and a 3rd forest (cutting fleshbag marauder + a marsh flat).
You can also include a Dragonlord Dromoka instead of the Gaddock MD and call it a day.
Nahiri (SB) can be whatever planeswalker you like as she is currently being tested:
- Dragonlord Dromoka / Thragtusk can take her slot if you like
- Garruk (relentless or Primal Hunter) can also be an option
- Ajani (Mentor of Heroes) could also be another potential idea
The list is pretty tight right now (and has been heavily tested to some pretty good results) and "cutties" have been cut (rector package for example) to better stick to the meta.
Anyway, I suggest this list as a starting point if you are willing to try.
We could talk about "tweaks" afterwards (once you get a good grip with it).
O M G, i am testing a couple of rounds with a friend. This deck is so freaking sic. Meren turns it into a monster. SBD Monstrosity in a turn. I looped veteran explorer into basics firing of 4 Cabal Therapies and launching SBD. Turn after it become monstrous with 3 cards on hand. Liliana helped to get the last explorer trigger by self targetting. just wow. Try it. It is amazing.
Edit: jep, that was a screaming orgasm.
Last edited by Bobmans; 12-07-2015 at 04:36 PM.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
After a pretty harsh thrashing at last weeks Legacy night (my worst small tournament result in 2 years) I'm realizing that I just don't have enough removal. Ended up going 1-2-1 with my win being a bye, losses to Burn and Infect, and a draw with Miracles (I won game 1, he won game 2 in his final extra turn). I didn't help matters much that I screwed up every single Cabal Therapy call (not just that I missed, which I did on every call... in hindsight I objectively called the wrong card each and every time) but the real issue was a lack of removal. So I've been thinking about how to fix that, Path is of course excellent but I've felt like there just aren't many slots in this deck for removal so I'm looking at modal removal spells instead. I'm thinking about turning my Painful Truths into an Abzan Charm, but I'm also thinking about making one of my removal slots a Dromoka's Command. Does anyone have experience with that card? There's a handful of enchantments it hits like Counterbalance, it has utility against Lightning Bolt or other burn, and I can even use it as a sacrifice outlet of sorts with Veteran Explorer with the fight.
This is what I was thinking of for a list this week.
Land 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
Creatures 16
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells 16
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Dromoka's Command
1 Abzan Charm
2 Path to Exile
Enchantment 4
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Sylvan Library
Artifact 3
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard 15
Not sure yet
Also, I'm really liking Meren, she's completely replaced Recurring Nightmare for me now. I almost feel like I want a second just because of exile effects and how good she is.
Pulse and vindicate are much better than charm and command. Also try painful truth.
I was using it and liked it, I just switched it to an Abzan Charm though to squeeze in more removal while still maintaining some card draw. Pulse and Vindicate are both 3 drops when I'm trying to get the curve a bit lower. I do usually run a Pulse SB though.
Concerning Dryad Arbor in Junk version: Benefits/Negatives?
With Meren, I've cut Volrath and deciding whether a 9th fetch or Dryad would be "better" ...
May I refer you to page 131 of this topic?
Also, I prefer the 10 fetch + Arbor manabase (near the bottom of page 137).
On a side note: I'm playing with the idea of switching a Forest for a second Phyrexian Tower. It keeps me at 14/14/14 initial green/black/white sources but increases the chance of the explosive T2. Also, Meren and Karador play extremely well with sac outlets. Think along the lines of attack with Rhino, sac Rhino, recur Rhino, rince and repeat. Suddenly your Rhino hits for 7 damage per turn. It's really the only thing I missed last saturday.
Another option would be replacing a DRS with a Starved Rusalka. GSZ'able 1-mana instant speed sac outlet. I'm crazy. Or drunk on Rhino-power.
Likely drinking too much Rhino-juice, but Rhino is powerful, and fun as hell. I'm a big fan of having fun while playing Legacy now, since I don't get to play as often anymore.
-Matt
Meh, I'll drink whatever juice the Rhino gives me to drink. I honestly do think Meren and Karador give us some new design space to explore, hence the craziness. I'm not completely sure yet on where to draw the line of what's helpful and acceptable and when it becomes banking too much on Meren/Karador. I do feel there's some wiggling room there.
It's the same for me, after trying all the decks in the format this is the one that allows to have fun the most. I mean I got to beat a miracles player with a flying rhino ffs.
And I must say: I initially thought that the deck would be crap in terms of power level, but now I believe that people just underestimate nic fit more than it deserves. I dont have the green fetches online and I'm beating people while running 4 evolving wilds..
Back on topic: I started to play this deck with a 4-1 split between veteran and drs, and gradually transitioned to a 3-3 configuration. Drs is one of my best friends, I have won so many games thanks to him and adds fixing and inevitability imo. To you all experts of the deck: what configuration do you play with and what's best for you?
I run a 4-3 configuration. I bank on Vet Ex a lot. But I do run more sac outlets than most (and plan on adding even more). Yes, a late game Vet Ex sucks big hairy balls but first you'll have to get there for that to matter. Popping a Vet Ex is normally one of the most important things I do during a game, best I make the chance of that happening as big as possible.
DRS I use mostly as a lightning rod for spotremoval or to buy more time.
Well, whatever wins does work, but I think we can say Rhino and Sigarda are effective cards.
@Rubble
I think 4-3, 4-2, and 3-3 are all fine configurations. I've played 4-2 and 3-3 and liked both. I'm currently on 4-2 in most builds. I don't have the slots for 4-3.
As for Jund...
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 New Taiga Elf
16
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
7
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Painful Truths
16
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
22
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Planeswalker slot
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
Rhino and Sigarda are never leaving my 60. I am, however, going to drop a DRS and stick in a Starved Rusalka and see how that works. Or Varolz, the Scar-Striped. Costs 2 mana more, but scavenge might come in handy.
Last edited by Echelon; 12-08-2015 at 09:22 AM.
@Brael, cut the libraries for truthe. You already have 3 tops for deck manipulation and truths are far mor effecient for card advantage than library (it's not like mana is an issue), plus truths don't die to deed, decay or wear//tear.
I've also thought about dromokas command a lot, but I really had to stretch to make it even sound good in my head, so I'd cut that for the 3rd decay, and then the Abzan charm can be whatever you like or stay as is
@rubblekill, I started with big hype on DRS 4-1 in favour of him, coming off from junk midrange but I've gradually gone all the way round to 0-4 in favor of vet, I just never really gsun for shaman, found that the easiest way to win against a lot of decks is pernicious deed and shaman dying to it is annoying, having more than 4 copies of graveyard dependent ramp sucks against RIP etc also found that SFM is my early play/lightning rod of choice, and she makes topdecked explorers into threats etc
That said my biggest gripe with this deck is that my goyfs shamans Lillianas and bobs are just collecting dust, if you had told me there was green one drop that would make change my deck so much I would stop playing with all that insane power, I would have called you silly and sent you on your way.
Finally, I don't have any three drops I really wanna cast turn 2, so with Lillianas he makes a lot of sense
Looks good, some things tho;
0 LilianaaaaaAAAAHHH.. how so?
1 Basic Mountain. Take this from me, the situation occurs pretty often that you NEED to fetch the 2 (or 2nd) Basic Mountain with Veteran Explorer in order to cast Stormbreath Dragon. Running SBD means you really want that 2nd Mountain.
Mina and Denn: i am not convinced of this card yet. The body is decend. 4/4 and out of decay reach. Also it can potentially speed up the game with Courser. But with Courser AND Meren we are already forced to durdle longer before we actually start the pounding. And Courser is already doing a decend job at speeding things up. Trample may be a win in a small! number of occassions. And the card has the potential of protecting lands vs wasteland. But are we really looking for that?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
But the thing is: your equipments die to deed as well (except bs)! Drs is the perfect answer to lands, reanimator, dredge and burn g1, and I have managed to beat these decks g1 solely thanks to him (imo these are not good mu for us so a gsz-able answer like drs is a must in my experience). But to each their own, the fact that nic fit is not a set in stone 75(76) is one of its many fascinating aspects
I don't run Jitte because it does die to deed, but the swords don't really (how often do you really need to deed for 3? especially if you're the one with the sword in play..), and SoFaI fulfills the "kill weenies" role that Jitte plays reasonably well.
DRS is a reasonable answer to dredge and lands, and good answer to reanimator, but it's really at its best as a 1 drop, not a 2 drop off of gsun to be activated on turn 3. So for me Drs is really an all or nothing kind of guy, run 4 cause he's great in your deck or don't. Could persuade me down to 3.
But yea, I'm always running back and forth on nic fit, both frustrating and exciting, I'm sure next year I'll be running shaman again -.- and I love coming here and seeing what everyone else is doing with it :)
The libraries were also there to work with Courser for free card advantage but I see what you're saying. I'll give that a try.
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