[Primer] R/G Lands

[Cfetchcaviar]

I find that my problems are mostly associated with dealing with Jace. I play bosejiu still so counter top isn't too problematic. I currently play 2 chokes as well but I've found that km siding so much out for this match up that the game usually stalls and they are better at the "draw, go" game than we are in my experience.

Apex predator.

[barcode]

Caleb Durward played Jarvis Yu's GP Seattle-Tacoma decklist on CFB today. http://www.channelfireball.com/video...-legacy-lands/

[Dice_Box]

Watching him, I am enjoying that he is trying but is unsure. "Probably not correct" is his new catch phrase as he sides, but at lest he admits that he is unskilled and at one point asks one of us to point out what we would do. Props to him on this.

[Sibelius]

I find that my problems are mostly associated with dealing with Jace. I play bosejiu still so counter top isn't too problematic. I currently play 2 chokes as well but I've found that km siding so much out for this match up that the game usually stalls and they are better at the "draw, go" game than we are in my experience.

Well we have the best thing available to deal with Jace in the main deck. Punishing Fire. Leave two in so you can deal with Jace.
I would recommend boarding something roughly like this.

Out - 3 Maze, 2 Fire, 1 Chasm 1 manabond, maybe tabernacle.
In - 4 Grip, Boseiju if you have it, Vortex or seismic as an out to Blood Moon and way of dealing with Jace etc. 2 Choke

I have never liked Chalice or sphere effects in this matchup. Their deck is designed to make land drops with Ponder and Top so fighting them there isnt the way forward. I try to get a waste or Ghostquarter or port lock going and then Lage. Chalice stops our crop rotations which are the only outs we have to a counterbalance top in combination with another spell.

I see Jarvis brings in the Sphere effects and would love to know what they are really there for.

Sib

[barcode]

Well we have the best thing available to deal with Jace in the main deck. Punishing Fire. Leave two in so you can deal with Jace.
I would recommend boarding something roughly like this.

Out - 3 Maze, 2 Fire, 1 Chasm 1 manabond, maybe tabernacle.
In - 4 Grip, Boseiju if you have it, Vortex or seismic as an out to Blood Moon and way of dealing with Jace etc. 2 Choke

I have never liked Chalice or sphere effects in this matchup. Their deck is designed to make land drops with Ponder and Top so fighting them there isnt the way forward. I try to get a waste or Ghostquarter or port lock going and then Lage. Chalice stops our crop rotations which are the only outs we have to a counterbalance top in combination with another spell.

I see Jarvis brings in the Sphere effects and would love to know what they are really there for.

Sib

Chalice of the Void is good for Miracles. It protects Marit Lage from Swords to Plowshares and prevents Sensei Tops from entering play.


I don't think Sphere effects are all that good against Miracles. They have more mana sources than we do and are better at finding them all. They can be good against the low land count four ponder version but Chalice of the Void will have more utility there anyways.

[Djehuti]

Chalice of the Void is good for Miracles. It protects Marit Lage from Swords to Plowshares and prevents Sensei Tops from entering play.

Second This. Every way to manipulate the library that isn't Jace also costs 1 mana. I've played it from the miracles side, chalice is savage and should absolutely come in if you have it.

[Croprot]

Well we have the best thing available to deal with Jace in the main deck. Punishing Fire. Leave two in so you can deal with Jace.
I would recommend boarding something roughly like this.

Out - 3 Maze, 2 Fire, 1 Chasm 1 manabond, maybe tabernacle.
In - 4 Grip, Boseiju if you have it, Vortex or seismic as an out to Blood Moon and way of dealing with Jace etc. 2 Choke

I have never liked Chalice or sphere effects in this matchup. Their deck is designed to make land drops with Ponder and Top so fighting them there isnt the way forward. I try to get a waste or Ghostquarter or port lock going and then Lage. Chalice stops our crop rotations which are the only outs we have to a counterbalance top in combination with another spell.

I see Jarvis brings in the Sphere effects and would love to know what they are really there for.

Sib

I Bring in spheres because when I have chalice in play I can cast my 1 cmc spells through the chalice with boseiju. Stacks hate against them making their spells inefficient and turns my 1s on through chalice. I agree that they play a ton of mana but I've found that even though they do when chalice is on 1 they are almost unable to ensure land drops which, I feel, is crucial.

[gigapatrick]

Hello all.

Couple videos.

Building a Fortress #77

Building a Fortress #78

First one showcases some real mistakes on my part, but definitely an interesting match that comes down to the final seconds.

[Sibelius]

I Bring in spheres because when I have chalice in play I can cast my 1 cmc spells through the chalice with boseiju. Stacks hate against them making their spells inefficient and turns my 1s on through chalice. I agree that they play a ton of mana but I've found that even though they do when chalice is on 1 they are almost unable to ensure land drops which, I feel, is crucial.

To be honest this is absurd. I would have thought the best use of Sphere would be to stop Jace resolving, hopefully forever with the use of wastes and ports.
Bringing them in to help cmc 1 spells resolve through your 1 or 2 ? chalices, witht he addition of a third card ! Boseiju. Seriously. That is just silly. I'm sure it comes up once or twice, but it certainly not a good reason to bring Spheres in .....

[hyp3r1on]

Hello all.

Couple videos.

Building a Fortress #77

Building a Fortress #78

First one showcases some real mistakes on my part, but definitely an interesting match that comes down to the final seconds.

You can probably afford to sideboard out some if not all of your Mazes in the Elves matchup - they're pretty unspectacular. I used to never board in Spheres against Elves under the philosophy that it would hinder my own Punishing Fire engine too significantly, but in the last little while I've been boarding them in vs Elves and they are definitely a beating - especially on the play.

[Chatto]

To be honest this is absurd. I would have thought the best use of Sphere would be to stop Jace resolving, hopefully forever with the use of wastes and ports.
Bringing them in to help cmc 1 spells resolve through your 1 or 2 ? chalices, witht he addition of a third card ! Boseiju. Seriously. That is just silly. I'm sure it comes up once or twice, but it certainly not a good reason to bring Spheres in .....

Still, if you are already boarding Boseiju because of Counter/Top-lock. It does help, whether you find it an absurd reason or not.

[Whitefaces]

Still, if you are already boarding Boseiju because of Counter/Top-lock. It does help, whether you find it an absurd reason or not.

Enough to warrant boarding in spheres? I play Miracles a fair bit, and really don't care when lands plays a Sphere. I can still top and make my land drops, which is the only thing I care about for the first quarter or so of the game. After that everything revolves around ports and getting countertop online (with a 3 floating for grip).

Chalice is a pain, though.

[Croprot]

To be honest this is absurd. I would have thought the best use of Sphere would be to stop Jace resolving, hopefully forever with the use of wastes and ports.
Bringing them in to help cmc 1 spells resolve through your 1 or 2 ? chalices, witht he addition of a third card ! Boseiju. Seriously. That is just silly. I'm sure it comes up once or twice, but it certainly not a good reason to bring Spheres in .....

I'm not gonna say it's super elite tech or anything but turning on my 1s and that's important I think. Yes it puts off Jace and blood moon with waste and port but I was just stating a lesser known and slightly useful interaction. I mean is it absurd? Possibly, but then again this deck attacks from different angles than any other deck in the format so however absurd it is if it helps us without having us actually sacrifice cards I think it could be helpful. Also boseiju is not for chalice spells to resolve. It's to beat counter top.

[Chatto]

Enough to warrant boarding in spheres? I play Miracles a fair bit, and really don't care when lands plays a Sphere. I can still top and make my land drops, which is the only thing I care about for the first quarter or so of the game. After that everything revolves around ports and getting countertop online (with a 3 floating for grip).

Chalice is a pain, though.

No, but it supplement the strategy you are following in the first place. Boseiju is the MVC in given example.

[Alexeezay]

I have played vs Miracles in tournaments a lot and from MY experience, I know that Spheres are not worth it to board in. They will most likely make you stumble and slow you down. Your goal is to Loam/do something + activate Port/Wasteland & end the game rather QUICK with the combo. Longer games favor Miracles unless you have Chalice or Ports/GQ action.
Consistency is key. I'd rather have cards like Karakas, Bog, Punishing Fire, Manabond.
People underestimate Punishing Fire in the Miracles MU because you often won't win the Mentor fight, but what are you gonna do when you board out Maze of Ith & Tabernacle & don't have a super early combo? They will board in dudes.

Also, I'm going to put Ghost Quarter back in, great to go after basic Plains and shuffle their deck to make Counterbalance worse. Unless they want to be Strip Mined.

[barcode]

I have played vs Miracles in tournaments a lot and from MY experience, I know that Spheres are not worth it to board in. They will most likely make you stumble and slow you down. Your goal is to Loam/do something + activate Port/Wasteland & end the game rather QUICK with the combo. Longer games favor Miracles unless you have Chalice or Ports/GQ action.
Consistency is key. I'd rather have cards like Karakas, Bog, Punishing Fire, Manabond.
People underestimate Punishing Fire in the Miracles MU because you often won't win the Mentor fight, but what are you gonna do when you board out Maze of Ith & Tabernacle & don't have a super early combo? They will board in dudes.

Also, I'm going to put Ghost Quarter back in, great to go after basic Plains and shuffle their deck to make Counterbalance worse. Unless they want to be Strip Mined.

Here's a Ghost Quarter anecdote from RUG lands.

Game 2, I am on the play and I lead off with a ghost quarter and mox. Chalice for 1 is forced. Opponent leads on basic + top. On my turn I resolve Crucible of Worlds. Opponent plays Tundra and Counterbalance. I waste the Tundra and ghost quarter the first basic Island.

He plays an island and passes. I ghost quarter his island, then explain I'm going to run him out of basic lands and he won't get past 2 mana. He conceded on turn 3 or 4 and the only spells I had to resolve were Mox and Crucible.

RG doesn't normally play Crucible but that's okay, establishing the ghost quarter loam lock early enough is a valid plan, even against basic heavy Miracles. I wouldn't recommend it as a first plan since the graveyard is a fragile resource in game 2 and 3...

[Cfetchcaviar]

Here's a Ghost Quarter anecdote from RUG lands.

Game 2, I am on the play and I lead off with a ghost quarter and mox. Chalice for 1 is forced. Opponent leads on basic + top. On my turn I resolve Crucible of Worlds. Opponent plays Tundra and Counterbalance. I waste the Tundra and ghost quarter the first basic Island.

He plays an island and passes. I ghost quarter his island, then explain I'm going to run him out of basic lands and he won't get past 2 mana. He conceded on turn 3 or 4 and the only spells I had to resolve were Mox and Crucible.

RG doesn't normally play Crucible but that's okay, establishing the ghost quarter loam lock early enough is a valid plan, even against basic heavy Miracles. I wouldn't recommend it as a first plan since the graveyard is a fragile resource in game 2 and 3...

Agree 110%

Stage copying ghost quarter in the mid game with a loam loop is gg. Very oppressive.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Top split at a local event with 28 players yesterday. Meta was heavy miracles, DnT, and night of the Reliquary varients. I managed to beat sneak and show, and ANT. Tried out blighted fen with spectacular results. I only tried it because i anticipated a meta of singular fatties via knight, and reanimator.

[kravkenov]

Tried out blighted fen with spectacular results. I only tried it because i anticipated a meta of singular fatties via knight, and reanimator.

4B inst a bit too much/too slow to really manage reanimated fatties ?

[Cfetchcaviar]

4B inst a bit too much/too slow to really manage reanimated fatties ?

I can slow them down enough with ports and other fx to make it go the distance. It really shined in my sneak and show matchup.
I wouldn't bring it to a large event, but for my meta it was great, and loads of fun. Will test more in future events