It's probably more correct to bring in NoSB (if you play that card) over any deluges. NoSB can be played proactively, and deals with all snappys, cliques and mentors at once. I wouldn't cut forces even if some lists plays 1 instead of 2 entreats, there are still plenty of cards that might require a force.Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian
Hey Guys,
I actually wrote the article. I want to explain the RUG Sb:
The first Version of the Deck had 2x Duress and 2x Thoughtseize in the Board. I brought in 2x Duress, Savannah and StoP. In the current version I would bring in 2-4 Discard Spells depending on how agressiv my Opponent is playing. Jace and Deluge can be countered to easy (Pierce esp.) .
Btw. a proactive Thoughtseize can save a big amount of damage by taking a counter (to resolve Lili) or Dude.
To Miracle:
Deluge is really bad in this mu. Remember: You are the Beatdown! Deluge is only good in one situation....
NoSB would be the better card because it shuts down Clique and Snappy. But I want bring it in. Decay is good enough most of the time. They need to cast MM mostly to protect their own life-total. I dont't think he is such a big problem at all.
I think Homason is right in both match ups. I always feel like you need to push through the important spells in the RUG match up and without additional discards it's almost impossible. Thoughtseize also protects your Manabase by taking Stifle if you need to fetch.
Against Miracles I think leaving in one Toxic is okay but I can also understand cutting both, since they are sorcery speed and only good against Mentor. As a Miracles player I always feel like if I'm able to stick a Monastery Mentor longer than two turns I'm 80% to win. Toxic might be only good in that spot and as he said Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse is fine, too. I think this tech needs to be thoroughly tested, as I've heard from a few players they also board out Monastery Mentor since they're expecting cards like NoSb, Dread of Night, Toxic Deluge, etc.
If my opponent board out their Mentors and tries to lean even heavier on the Jace plan post-board, I am totally fine with that. NoSB still shuts down Cliques and Snapcasters, and I'm a lot more scared of a field of Monks than a single Jace.
What would they bring in Meddling Mage for? Abrupt Decay? Not all Miracles players run MM at all, and among those who do, I can't imagine that's a common SB plan against Shardless.
I ment MM = Monastery mentor. They don't run Meddling Mages, I agree :-)
So I will be playing in the Legacy 5k this weekend in Vegas. I am a little nervous because the Invi will bring some top quality players, but I am feeling confident in the deck and my abilities.
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
3 Baleful Strix
4 Brainstorm
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland (more lands.dec lately)
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard
1 Scrubland
2 Meddling Mage
1 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
2 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
This list feels pretty good, and it is easy to play.
I am debating the 3rd Baleful Strix, thinking about putting a Sylvan Library instead, but I like to default to being good against creature decks as opposed to slower strategies.
Sideboard I am trying to find a way to fit in Night of Souls Betrayal as a more permanent answer to small creatures, but I think the Charms might just be better in that they only cost 2.
I will let you guys know how it goes.
Maybe -1 Strix +1 Deluge? Deluge is pretty important in this deck to have only 1.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Hm, yes, I might do that. My list is a little hybridy between the American and European versions in that I play more wastelands, so another Deluge might be quite good, at least in the 75 if not the 60. Thanks!
Primer update time.
I've been AFD (Away From Deck) for a while, but seeing that it's DTB I should get my ass in gear and update the primer. Anything in particular I should add?
Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
White splash out of sb for Meddling Mage probably deserves a mention, as does Jace, Vryn's Prodigy as a 1 or 2 of. Neither are really universal, but both are common.
Oh, and maybe put something in about Toxic Deluge in either MD and/or sideboard section, everybody at least plays 1 maindeck now.
As far as the matchup section maybe add something about Monastery Mentor to the Miracles section, I feel as though our sideboard plan has changed vs that deck since the printing of that card.
The White splash also offers access to other great sideboard cards, especially Ethersworn Canonist.
If I were writing a new primer for the deck, I would also include a section on deciding whether to run discard spells main deck ("American" lists), or drop discard from the main entirely and shift it to the sideboard along with a white splash for combo matches (lists typically attributed to Lejay). Both approaches are valid.
I played Shardless in the Denver 5k last weekend. Just wanted to give you a heads up that mono-R and R/W Painter was all over the place - I played that matchup 3 rounds in a row and most other rounds had a Painter player sitting near me. Only one of the Painter players made top 16 so it might not be apparent from the published results how big a share of the meta that deck was.
Not sure if this was an anomaly for Denver or if that's normal for the SCG meta but you should have a plan for that matchup this weekend.
Hm thanks for the heads up. I haven't tested that matchup very much, but I did have pretty good results against painter with Jund.
I've been very pleased with 1-2 Dimir Charm in the main over the past month or so. As RUG and BUG Delver are becoming less popular relative to Grixis the main arguments against it (not killing Goose and Goyf) have gottrn weaker. It kills Pyromancer, Mentor (which in turn makes Liliana much better), Deathrite, every creature in Infect, Painter, Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, Thalia, and I'm sure I'm forgetting more. The counter half is especially relevant because people aren't playing around it. It's easily +5% to your Miracles matchup by itself, since it answers both Terminus and Entreat for 2 mana, and ia surprisingly good against Show and Tell and Storm variants.
Went 3-1in the grinder losing the first round to storm but then winning the following 3 against death and taxes, uw blade, and uwr delver.
Deck feels solid for tomorrow (list is the same as above).
Good luck!
Ended up 3rd in the whole thing. Was pretty stoked!
Miracles (Jarvis Yu): 2-0
Infect: 2-1
Sneak and Show: 0-2
Reanimator: 2-1
Infect: 2-1
BUG Delver (Rory Drexler): 2-1
Sneak and Show (Will Craddock): 2-1
Top 8:
Storm (Micah Greenbaum): 2-0 (though he basically just scooped to me as prizes were the same and he was already qualified)
Grixis Delver: 0-2
Total match record between the challenge and the classic event: 10-3
All in all it was an awesome tournament. Props to my friends for travelling with me, to my opponents for all being chill and reasonable people, and to the people at my LGS (Plus Ev Games, Santa Barbara) for being good testing partners!
Congrats on the finish.
The only thing about your list I'm a bit iffy on is the White splash. You are only running 2 copies Meddling Mage, and no other White cards. Yet you are still spending a sideboard slot for Scrubland. It just seems to me that the White splash only justifies itself if you are running 4-6+ White cards, as otherwise there are probably other cards in Sultai-colors that can achieve a similar effect.
Don't get me wrong; MMage is an amazing SB card and especially great in Shardless since you can cascade into it, it pitches to FoW, and doubles as a clock + disruption... but I feel like the White splash is sort of 'all or nothing' and Meddling Mage tends to be better in multiples in case the opponent can deal with the first copy.
Then again, Shardless BUG is already so good against certain decks that it doesn't really even need to go overboard with sideboarding, so perhaps "burning" a slot on Scrubland is okay even if it's only being utilized for a couple of cards.
Congrats on your finish!
I've been lukewarm on Meddling Mage for a while, and I increasingly don't see what Mage does that Phyrexian Revoker doesn't. If anything, handles Sneak and Show better (since even if they get Sneak Attack into play via Show and Tell they still can't activate it) and Storm a little worse (I usually find myself naming LED, which works pretty well). The extra SB slot can go to something fairly versatile too, so I increasingly think that Revoker is the better option.
Hm, I will say that Revoker would have been better against Sneak and Show that is for sure.
Meddling Mage did help me vs Reanimator where my opponent was at a low life total and I was able to name Exhume, limiting my opponent to needing to use Reanimate on something of mine or his Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (neither of which were scary compared to what he could get).
Meddling Mage is a very skill-testing card to play, and I think people over sideboard with it. I only bring it in vs combo decks and Lands because at least I know what to name a good portion of the time.
It might be nice to cut white and see what happens, or maybe put a Containment Priest in there instead. If I were to cut white, I think I would put 2 Thoughtseizes in the maindeck and play some actual graveyard hate like Spellbomb or Surgical Extraction.
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