[Primer/Deck] Pox

[Toxboy]

I will note that crucible also allows you to take actual draw steps as well so that you can draw action

Cycle lands togheter with loam also let's you draw action. I will personally board out up to two loams (1 vs most decks 2 vs high tide and tes) if I think they bring in graveyard hate or if I don't think it's enough gas.



Vs Miracles for example i keep all 3 since they have a real hard time answering your lands with extra effects.
After you got raven's crime in your graveyard loam will also be action vs most decks.

[Toxboy]

No doubt there is utility, but without the ability to win out of nowhere it makes you wonder if its worth it since you already have Entomb / Loam to find your special lands and Bojuka Bog is really only the land you need at instant speed.

I also want to point out that this is simply not true that bojuka bog is the only land to get at instant speed in my experience far from it.
You have everything from crux wastelands that can be needed (killing a man land, a karakas rishadan port), you can save your own lands and also many effect lands as mishra's factory and cabal pit can be very good to get at your own choosing.


My favorite is vs miracles when they play JTMS knowing I can't win with the combo and just crop rotation in response to their (usually) Jace brainstorm to fetch a mishra's with it. if you somehow get a second one in play (thespian's stage can work out in end step to copy) then you just killed 1 of their best card in the matchup.

[mykatdied]

Cycle lands togheter with loam also let's you draw action. I will personally board out up to two loams (1 vs most decks 2 vs high tide and tes) if I think they bring in graveyard hate or if I don't think it's enough gas.



Vs Miracles for example i keep all 3 since they have a real hard time answering your lands with extra effects.
After you got raven's crime in your graveyard loam will also be action vs most decks.

Very true and fair enough. I too have found that vs combo I generally don't want all my loams. Although the occasional wastelock with a sphere effect can be very effective post board.

[Mr. Safety]

I also want to point out that this is simply not true that bojuka bog is the only land to get at instant speed in my experience far from it.
You have everything from crux wastelands that can be needed (killing a man land, a karakas rishadan port), you can save your own lands and also many effect lands as mishra's factory and cabal pit can be very good to get at your own choosing.


My favorite is vs miracles when they play JTMS knowing I can't win with the combo and just crop rotation in response to their (usually) Jace brainstorm to fetch a mishra's with it. if you somehow get a second one in play (thespian's stage can work out in end step to copy) then you just killed 1 of their best card in the matchup.

You're working pretty hard to deal with Jace. If you're on crop rotation then I suggest vampire hexmage to compliment depths. I love having 4 in the main to deal with jaces as well as providing additional threats (I play zero factories.)

Edit: and I still play 2 needles in the board.

[Hardcore]

If i run two Sensei's Divining Top, how many shuffle effects do i need?
I have four fetchlands in the deck

[Chatto]

If i run two Sensei's Divining Top, how many shuffle effects do i need?
I have four fetchlands in the deck

I would say the minimum is six.

[snorlaxcom]

If i run two Sensei's Divining Top, how many shuffle effects do i need?
I have four fetchlands in the deck

You could add an infernal tutor or 2 and crop rotations if there is green.

[mykatdied]

I personally run dakmor salvage with top in my mono black build and I never saw a reason to dislike it. Sure occasionally a comes into play tapped land matters, but very rarely does it REALLY matter. It also gives you the ability to "draw" lands later in the game after heavy poxing. I liked it because sometimes you just don't want certain cards in a match and it helped me remove them from the deck rather than shuffling them back and possibly still finding them on top

[Hardcore]

A stable mana base, control over my draws, less self-disruption and, for creature kill, reliance shifting from pox effects to sweepers. Those changes resulted in this:

4 Bloodghast
4 bloodsoaked champion these guys are needed to facilitate poxing when bigger creatures are in play.
2 Gurmag Angler depending how testing goes this one may be upgraded to Tombstalkers
4 the rack
3 nihilith

4 Pox
4 smallpox
4 hymn to tourach
4 wrench mind
3 toxic deluge a better answer to creature threats than pox

2 sensei's divining top
2 cursed scroll a test

4 bloodstained mire
17 swamp
1 dakmor salvage

This list should let me better manage resources, especially my lands.

Liliana is excluded but her main thing is to discard cards for the rack damage. That should work better with Wrench Mind.

I may play without top if i find it interfere with play. Otoh i should have less mana problems overall and thus find it less of a drain.

would love to test it but i have to wait 10 days for the next tourney

[mykatdied]

A stable mana base, control over my draws, less self-disruption and, for creature kill, reliance shifting from pox effects to sweepers. Those changes resulted in this:

4 Bloodghast
4 bloodsoaked champion these guys are needed to facilitate poxing when bigger creatures are in play.
2 Gurmag Angler depending how testing goes this one may be upgraded to Tombstalkers
4 the rack
3 nihilith

4 Pox
4 smallpox
4 hymn to tourach
4 wrench mind
3 toxic deluge a better answer to creature threats than pox

2 sensei's divining top
2 cursed scroll a test

4 bloodstained mire
17 swamp
1 dakmor salvage

This list should let me better manage resources, especially my lands.

Liliana is excluded but her main thing is to discard cards for the rack damage. That should work better with Wrench Mind.

I may play without top if i find it interfere with play. Otoh i should have less mana problems overall and thus find it less of a drain.

would love to test it but i have to wait 10 days for the next tourney

Not sure that I can agree with dropping liliana straight up for wrench mind. Mostly because she is a constant source of discard every turn, whereas wrench can only hit when you cast it on your turn each time you draw it. But the discard 2 seems very good regardless. I would definitely try and find room for both. Since you have creatures to help with a clock you should probably not include scroll over Liliana and I would certainly cut another card to add a 3rd as well.

[TTX]

I'm strongly considering playing Chalice of Pox next weekend. The list is based on Jason Deiss' list from Denver.

1 Nether Spirit
1 Batterskull/Vraska the Unseen
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Thoughtseize/Duress
3 Dark Ritual
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Mox Diamond
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Infernal Tutor

1 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ancient Tomb

Sideboard
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Choke
2 Diabolic Edict

Chalice of the Void is too good at 0 and/or 1 in the current meta to not include.
I'm not sure if Thoughtseize or Duress is better. Most creatures are not a problem for this deck, and I'd rather preserve life total. Thoughts? Edit: Thoughtseize is just better. Death and Taxes is one of the toughest matchups, and taking a pesky hate bear makes a big difference.

Often Grim Tutor is cast after most of the hand has been expended, and the cheaper (money and casting cost) Infernal Tutor seems superior because of no life loss and the possibility of casting the tutored card in the same turn. After a lot of testing, Infernal Tutor is definitely better.

Difficult match-ups I expect to be Burn, Goblins, Death & Taxes, and Lands, therefore I'm playing 1 Batterskull main instead of a second Cursed Scroll as a life gain source and clock. Edit: I'm trying out Vraska the Unseen as a faster clock. One of the notorious problems being Pox can't close the game fast enough. 1 additional planeswalker that is a desert twister and potential win condition is valuable. I really like Batterskull, but it's too slow to combat burn and death and taxes, so those must be approached in some other way. Vraska is a much better card for closing out grindy games.

Edit: What's the best defense against burn? I can only think Zuran Orb, Lifegift is kind of cool, but too slow. Is planting a Chalice for 1 and Chalice for 2 the only way to combat Burn?

Lands ability to make a Marit Lage end step is where Diabolic Edict makes its effect, and Leyline shuts out their Life from the Loam. Helm of Obedience is an auto include with Leyline.

What do you guys think?

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[mykatdied]

I'm strongly considering playing Chalice of Pox next weekend. The list is based on Jason Deiss' list from Denver.

1 Nether Spirit
1 Batterskull
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Thoughtseize/Duress
3 Dark Ritual
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Mox Diamond
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Grim Tutor/Infernal Tutor

1 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors

Sideboard
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Golgari Charm
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Choke
2 Diabolic Edict

Chalice of the Void is too good at 0 and/or 1 in the current meta to not include.
I'm not sure if Thoughtseize or Duress is better. Most creatures are not a problem for this deck, and I'd rather preserve life total. Thoughts?
Often Grim Tutor is cast after most of the hand has been expended, and the cheaper (money and casting cost) Infernal Tutor seems superior because of no life loss and the possibility of casting the tutored card in the same turn.
I'm not sure about 2 Urborgs, perhaps I should play 3? But I'm not sure what to cut.
Isn't City of Traitors better in a Crucible deck?

Difficult matchups I expect to be Burn, Goblins, and Lands, therefore I'm playing 1 Batterskull main instead of a second Cursed Scroll as a life gain source and clock.
Lands ability to make a Marit Lage end step is where Diabolic Edict makes its effect, and Leyline shuts out their Life from the Loam. Helm of Obedience is an auto include with Leyline.

What do you guys think?


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Tomb is likely better as it stays around. You don't want to cast a chalice off city and then want to play a hymn or something and not be able to use your sol land when you're sitting on urborg and Tomb likely won't deal damage to you past turn 1 chalice. If you tried a turn 2 Crucible off city and another land and that got countered then it would be rough.

[Hardcore]

Remorseless Punishment. One off against Miracles?

[Hardcore]

Remorseless Punishment

"Oracle Text

Target opponent loses 5 life unless that player discards two cards or sacrifices a creature or planeswalker. Repeat this process once"

[TTX]

I'd prefer another copy of Chains of Mephistopheles. I don't think Remorseless Punishment is playable. I guess it's ok against Jace.


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[Mr. Safety]

Funny story (from MWS. Is there any other kind?) that illustrates why I play Dark Depths in gb pox. I plaued against burn, notorious as one of the worst matchups for pox in general, and I raced him game one with a turn three hexmage + depths. I was at 13 life and he couldn't kill me (I took a goblin guide with inquisition of kozilek.) I drew 2 extra lands from his other guide he played.

"You're cheating. Fuck off" were his last words before signing out. God I love pissing off scrubs.

Regarding the new five mana spell, pox is probably the hardest deck to incorporate this. Smallpox, Pox, and wasteland all keep you at around 2-3 functional mana during a game. I feel even one copy is dangerous. Hymn to tourach is just infinitely more playable, and if you look closely, this card doesn't even do as much as Smallpox. Without a fast clock the lifeloss is negligable, and other disruption is more efficient.

EDIT: at four mana this card would have been playable. Against some decks that use their life total strongly as a resource this could be difficult to play around on turn 2 with a dark ritual.

[Hardcore]

I see it doing service when in top deck mode vs grindy decks. At that time i often have the mana i need.
Still, i am waiting for something better.

[jredelstein]

I was out of town over the holiday, I will try to answer the questions that came up in the last 2 weeks, if I missed something let me know.

I played Crop Rotation in my sideboard when I made Top 8 of SCG Legacy Open, as many of you pointed out Bojuka Bog, and Tabernacle are the best things to get, I also had Karakas and Glacial Chasm in the sideboard and play Maze of Ith, there are also some fringe scenarios like using it to "stifle" and opposing wasteland or getting a Mishra's Factory to start the beatdown.

I run 2 Sensei's Divining Top and play 6-7 fetchlands, 3 crop rotation, and 2 life from the loam to clear out the top of my deck. I'd say it is probably not worth playing Top with less than 8 effects to clear your top 3 cards.

I played 2 barren moor in my pre dark depths lists, cycle lands help a lot in grinding out games allowing GB pox to dredge and draw in the same turn. I have not found room for the cycle lands since I added dark depths. Crucible does a similar thing allow extra land drops while still drawing but does not add cards to the hand which is an upside to Loam, allowing us to hold cards with an active Liliana.

I think the next addition I am going to try is Exploration, the trick will be finding a balance that stay true to my pox roots. I don't want to just become a lands deck or turbo-depths.

[Hardcore]

Midnight Charm I am thinking combat tricks with this one.

[OmniStrata]

Warping Wail.

My magic coach pointed me to this card and I'm somewhat regretting mentioning it here, but after careful review of the card, some call it "Eldrazi Charm", I'm certain Pox would love it in the 75 somewhere.

There's apparently a NEW form of colorless mana. [facepalm]

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/warping-wail/

This could be new secret tech to deal with my biggest problems. Going to get 4, maybe even 8 of these bad boys once they're printed, I only hope they're cheap enough.