[Primer] R/G Lands

[Cfetchcaviar]

Primeval Titan is better when you cast it on turn 2. #justmodernthings

I went 5-1-1 (then lose in t8) in a local legacy event for a Time Walk to first, and Time Vault for second.

R1: crushed pfire jund
R2: lost to burning omnitell
R3: crushed D+T (won g2 with 3 RIPs out and not killing them at all)
R4: Won RG mirror (2-1)
R5: Crushed BUG Delver
R6: Won vs Shardless (2-1)
R7: 1-1-1 vs Dave Long playing RG Lands (unintentional draw). Got maindeck Bogged in g1, and g3 I was likely going to win, but it was going to take a while.

R1 of T8: Mulliganed and kept this hand: Fetch, Stage, Exploration, Loam, Loam, Chasm on the draw. How do you play this hand versus D+T? Lost a 50 minute game 2, and lost the match 0-2.

It probably didn't help that I stayed up until 2:30am watching the new star wars (fantastic movie A+++)

Nice! Get long and chanderson to hop on the board and chat us up.

If you knew they were on DnT, might have aggressively mulligan for pfire gamble, or rotation. That hand is really good, but is not very controlling, hard in on the loam engine plan. What were the first turns like?

[gigapatrick]

To cfetchcaviar:

Messages checked and a response sent.

[barcode]

Primeval Titan is better when you cast it on turn 2. #justmodernthings


R1 of T8: Mulliganed and kept this hand: Fetch, Stage, Exploration, Loam, Loam, Chasm on the draw. How do you play this hand versus D+T? Lost a 50 minute game 2, and lost the match 0-2.

On the play that's a borderline hand against D&T since it has no disruption. On the draw it's a mulligan since it's definitely too slow to interact. But since we're keeping:

Fetch forest, play Exploration and Stage.

Then dredge the fuck out of your deck looking for disruption (Wasteland, Maze, Grove+Punishing Fire, Tabernacle).

[jarvisyu]

On the play that's a borderline hand against D&T since it has no disruption. On the draw it's a mulligan since it's definitely too slow to interact. But since we're keeping:

Fetch forest, play Exploration and Stage.

Then dredge the fuck out of your deck looking for disruption (Wasteland, Maze, Grove+Punishing Fire, Tabernacle).

so i played exploration + stage, and got wastelanded, didn't draw another land for a few turns, by which point i was too far behind to win

i was wondering if i was supposed to NOT play stage to guarantee that i could loam on t2 (and not even be that far behind).

[barcode]

so i played exploration + stage, and got wastelanded, didn't draw another land for a few turns, by which point i was too far behind to win

i was wondering if i was supposed to NOT play stage to guarantee that i could loam on t2 (and not even be that far behind).

This exact scenario is why it's dangerous to keep this hand and follow the obvious line. The mana-producing lands you can draw are pretty slim. Not playing the Stage is defensible but it's definitely not an intuitive line.

[jarvisyu]

This exact scenario is why it's dangerous to keep this hand and follow the obvious line. The mana-producing lands you can draw are pretty slim. Not playing the Stage is defensible but it's definitely not an intuitive line.

i even thought about it for a bit. /shrug

[Djehuti]

I'm going to continue posting videos

Your videos have helped me out greatly man. I'm heard pressed to find time to play test so seeing all these different situations in your vids is tremendously helpful. Keep it up

[snorlaxcom]

i even thought about it for a bit. /shrug

I had a similar scenario come up yesterday vs rug delver and I held onto stage here (was a bit tighter though since green source wasn't off of a fetch). Apart from not gaining anything by playing the second land the same turn as exploration, you lose your out of drawing a mox for a stable colored source (+4 outs to draw) and t2 loam if you opp does waste/port here. If you did draw a green source the next turn and held off playing the stage you are not losing any significant land development since only 3/4 mana sources will be the end result. Holding off on playing the stage and ripping mox allows you to play chasm, tap green green source before sacing to chasm trigger, pitch stage to mox, loam back green source + fetch + stage. Now you're set for a number of scenarios. The important part of having the green source in hand at this point is avoiding port/waste vulnerability.

I've gotten tempo'd out by stumbling on green sources vs Thalia and friends with that sketchy opener. By the time I could amass a workable manabase their board would be too far ahead. I side out chasm vs d&t because they have a million ways to remove a land from play and it becomes an auto muligan in my experience. What was the card you scryed into?

[Alexeezay]

@ Cfetchcaviar: You playing Magic for 1.5 years says it all.

I think I would have done the same Boil play. You can't give them a thousand mana to play Mentor/Jace whatever on their turn. You need (early) denial to pressure them and make them stumble.
If you wait on Boil, you will eventually run into a Counterspell quite often.

With that being said...gigapatrick, great contributor & I will keep running Choke. Choke is way better vs SneakShow & Storm which is important.

[Dice_Box]

Guys, attack each others arguments not each other. I don't want to see a mod sweep though this thread and delete shit.

[jarvisyu]

I had a similar scenario come up yesterday vs rug delver and I held onto stage here (was a bit tighter though since green source wasn't off of a fetch). Apart from not gaining anything by playing the second land the same turn as exploration, you lose your out of drawing a mox for a stable colored source (+4 outs to draw) and t2 loam if you opp does waste/port here. If you did draw a green source the next turn and held off playing the stage you are not losing any significant land development since only 3/4 mana sources will be the end result. Holding off on playing the stage and ripping mox allows you to play chasm, tap green green source before sacing to chasm trigger, pitch stage to mox, loam back green source + fetch + stage. Now you're set for a number of scenarios. The important part of having the green source in hand at this point is avoiding port/waste vulnerability.

I've gotten tempo'd out by stumbling on green sources vs Thalia and friends with that sketchy opener. By the time I could amass a workable manabase their board would be too far ahead. I side out chasm vs d&t because they have a million ways to remove a land from play and it becomes an auto muligan in my experience. What was the card you scryed into?

preboard game. don't remember, except i should have scryed it to the bottom because it iddn't produce mana

[snorlaxcom]

preboard game. don't remember, except i should have scryed it to the bottom because it iddn't produce mana

I'd snap go to five then since that hand has no way to flip the deck past the draw step plus you have a dead loam and chasm. Being on the draw plus having the scry you still get to see the top 7 t1. I'd take my chances going to 5 to find more action and take advantage of g1's win% by not having to combat sb hate.

[Nikolai004]

With the overwhelming numerous Miracles decks out there what's everyone's plan against the deck? It seems like K-grip just isn't enough. Boil and choke are great, I prefer boil since it deals with their lands for good. It just rarely seems like it's enough. Much like the match up against combo it seems more often they lose to their own deck rather than me drawing my own hate or anti-hate cards. I've been considering abrupt decay's but the black splash isn't the easiest thing to have when you need it. Has anyone had any success trying something new or old?

[Chatto]

With the overwhelming numerous Miracles decks out there what's everyone's plan against the deck? It seems like K-grip just isn't enough. Boil and choke are great, I prefer boil since it deals with their lands for good. It just rarely seems like it's enough. Much like the match up against combo it seems more often they lose to their own deck rather than me drawing my own hate or anti-hate cards. I've been considering abrupt decay's but the black splash isn't the easiest thing to have when you need it. Has anyone had any success trying something new or old?

Boseiju, P-Titan, and K-Grip. In fact, I'm considering going up to two P-Titan again. Miracles is really a MU I don't like: I would raise the flag when CB gets the axe (never going to happen, I know)

[kravkenov]

I would raise the flag when CB gets the axe (never going to happen, I know)

But maybe Sensei's Top... Time will tell.

[hyp3r1on]

Just wanted to point out that it's very easy to watch someone else's games and see mistakes or misplays. I know from experience how hard it is to concentrate on a game, whether it be mtg or something else and engage in commentary at the same time. People freaking out in this thread over gigapatricks videos need to seriously chill out.

When it comes to Boil vs Choke, I personally will never play with Boil. I think it's a low value card that has questionable early game utility vs miracles and questionable late game utility. Obviously there are going to be rare spots at the perfect time where it's an absolute blow out but more often than not it's narrow deadweight in your board. For the nonbelievers - playtest a few postboard matches vs a strong miracles player with boil in your opener and then choke in your opener. In my experience testing - choke is by far the more desirable card.

I hate losing to miracles in general and thats the main reason I prefer the rug build of lands, but that's going slightly off topic.

[barcode]

I hate losing to miracles in general and thats the main reason I prefer the rug build of lands, but that's going slightly off topic.

This is why I've moved back over to the RUGb build as well.

[chaosjace]

I greatly appreciate your efforts, gigapatrick, I don't get many chances to play my lands deck and I enjoy watching.

I think we should give boil a little more time and testing.

Also am I the only one that plays Sylvan Library like a scry engine? I rarely pay the life when I use it and would only do so if there was something amazing in the next 2.

[snorlaxcom]

I greatly appreciate your efforts, gigapatrick, I don't get many chances to play my lands deck and I enjoy watching.

I think we should give boil a little more time and testing.

Also am I the only one that plays Sylvan Library like a scry engine? I rarely pay the life when I use it and would only do so if there was something amazing in the next 2.

Then you probably want Mirri's Guile. This can still be played off t1 Exploration and helps find sb hate for t2 more consistently. You guys don't run Zuran Orb so is a bit more difficult to leverage the draw factor of Library outside of getting the token swords'd.

[djxstream]

Also am I the only one that plays Sylvan Library like a scry engine? I rarely pay the life when I use it and would only do so if there was something amazing in the next 2.

Then you probably want Mirri's Guile. This can still be played off t1 Exploration and helps find sb hate for t2 more consistently. You guys don't run Zuran Orb so is a bit more difficult to leverage the draw factor of Library outside of getting the token swords'd.

I change between running 1 Guile/1 Library and 2 Libraries in my board. Both work wonderfully in different scenarios.

I tend to use the libraries for my miracles and d&t matchups. Since I'm likely to get atleast 1 token +20 life, the library is awesome in those long matchups. I use guile in matchups where I need sideboard spells, but I feel my loam engine won't be completely turned off via a rest in peace or such. its gratifying seeing 3 lands in your upkeep and dredging your draw without worry.