[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Tom4ik]

Diabolic Intent is also turned off in more situations than Truths. It requires either a situation where you have expendable tokens or the loss of a real card to grab another card. Truths allows you to gas up. If you draw 3 cards that dont matter you either got unlucky or you built a bad deck.

Instead of saying quality over quantity just run good cards so that you draw 3 quality cards. Seriously though those 2 cards fulfill different roles. Intent is a DT variant that can be used to tutor up specific answers/threats. Truths is a CA engine for grinding out other midrange/control decks. I like intent as a card but it shouldnt replace truths in my opinion.

[Bobmans]

Diabolic Intent is also turned off in more situations than Truths. It requires either a situation where you have expendable tokens or the loss of a real card to grab another card. Truths allows you to gas up. If you draw 3 cards that dont matter you either got unlucky or you built a bad deck.

Instead of saying quality over quantity just run good cards so that you draw 3 quality cards. Seriously though those 2 cards fulfill different roles. Intent is a DT variant that can be used to tutor up specific answers/threats. Truths is a CA engine for grinding out other midrange/control decks. I like intent as a card but it shouldnt replace truths in my opinion.

I would never compare Diabolic Intent with Painful Truths when talking about quality vs quantity, but i see where i made it confusing in my response. For me the comparison has more to do with a recurring effect of say Sensei's Divining Top's rearrange top 3 ability. Every turn the best of top 3 is in my oppinion more valuable then drawing 3 at once in NicFit. Of course there are situations were the opposite is true, but in general i'd rather have the best of 3 over the course of turns since games tend to go long. But drawing irrelevant stuff from Truth happens. Nothing to do with bad luck or bad deck. I see Diabolic Intent more as an option when your looking into a much more specific gameplan such as Walkerfit, Rector, Thune or Birthing Pod.

For every list 3 Sensei's Divining Top seems standard. Adding 1/2 Painful Truths is fine. Space is always tight so i never find anything i want to cut for Truths. same goes for Diabolic Intent or Sylvan Library. Instead my auto include is Courser of Kruphix. It works very well with Top and can be fetched with GSZ.

[Tom4ik]

Agreed that no other option is really the same as top when looking for a card quality machine. If I was on blue nic fit I wouldnt run top but either junk or jund and I would run 3. Truths is in the same role as library, courser, jace, or other cards that are generally used to generate CA. Maybe its the way I always played the deck but I would NEVER use a green sun on a courser. The card is too low impact for me to want to spend on it. Something like library is a bad top and a bad truth (in the sense of drawing pure cards) so I wouldnt play it over the other options.

I think play style might explain the differences in how we see certain cards. I always played nic fit (bug and punishing) as pure control deck with only like 10 creatures inc vets. Obv that does not lend itself to running intent. Running 3 deed and no deedable permanents meant I dont really favor library or coarser.

[Gus_13]

Anyone tried Lumbering Falls? I'm running it now with this list. I've been needing something late game for some matches when I can't get pod online and Grave Titan is not there.

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Baleful Strix
1 Merciless Executioner
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Shriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
3 Birthing Pod
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Brainstorm
1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Polluted Delta
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Lumbering Falls
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Underground Sea
Sb
3 Swan Song
3 Thoughtseize
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Minister of Pain
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Notion Thief
2 Golgari charm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pernicious Deed

[Nargoron]

@ Nargoron: Vraska isn't meant to be a token producer. Therefor I prefer Elspeth KE, or even Garruk PH or Sorin.

I know that their roles are different...
but iam talking about .. what fit to junk nic fit more..
In my oppinion your version is much more aggresive and vraska just doenst fit to your play style. As you told, you won just one game on her ulty.
Isn't garruk / elspeth better for junk? - thats what iam talking about , not comparing this two planewalkers

I actualy run 0 planeswalkers and i wish to play one, but can decide which is the best for me.

I like intent as a card but it shouldnt replace truths in my opinion.

I like intent as a card but it shouldnt replace truths in my opinion.

tutor vs. draw engine...
two different things... but iam prefer tutor against drawing... just my oppinion :)

But in junk version there are not (unfortunatly) some superstrong combo and intent tutor isnt always strong as in some other versions...
On the other hand - your sideboards silverbullets x 2
When you desperatly need deed
When game is long and you need some bomb to finish
and so on...

And thats drive me back to present of one planeswalker in the deck again...
Becouse:
I wanna finish my opponent, but he can flip terminus... so fetch for some big dump guy inst an option for victory...
But for example garruk should be...
every turn 3/3 beast must have some influence
Its a pitty that there is no sigardock xD (hexproof no 4cmc+ spells)

[Bobmans]

i wish to play one, but can decide which is the best for me.

Thragtusk is nice vs Terminus and/or Swords to Plowshares. That aside, the walker you choose should compliment your gameplan and it is offcourse a meta call. Combat walkers do good vs control/Miracles and the tokens carry equipment like a champ. But combat walkers might aswell be just creatures in that regard if it suits the meta better. Liliana on the other hand serves better in a meta with big dudes and combo. Also it is nice to try out walkers just for the sake of it. I mean, i never played with Ajani, Mentor of heroes, but it looks pretty decent. Also Nissa, Vastwood Seer is starting to grow on me. Gonna try that card for sure.

[moseby]

A friend suggested Gideon, Ally of Zendikar as a plainswalker. specifically as a foil for miracles. You can drown them in tokens, then punch them in the face for 5 when you are sure their shields are down.

[Bobmans]

Garruk says:



Magic Christmas

[pettdan]

Merry Christmas to all and keep on brewing! Must have been very nice this year, according to trustworthy sources I'll receive visit from a Christmas angel.. A foil Japanese Christmas angel.



P.S. Pardon the randomness of the picture, best one I could find.

[uncletiggy]

Updated stoneforge list:

creatures 17
1 dryad arbor
3 vet
2 drs
1 teeg
1 ooze
1 sfm
1 qpm
1 witness
4 rhino
1 meren
1 sigarda

selection 9
3 top
3 zenith
1 intent
2 painful truths

disruption 14
4 therapy
3 decay
2 path
2 deed
1 pulse
1 sofi
1 solas

lands 21
2 bayou
2 savanna
1 scrubland
1 badlands
2 forest
2 plains
2 swamp
1 phrexian tower
1 volraths stronghold
1 karakas
3 verdant catacombs
3 windswept heath


Sb 15
1 teeg
2 cannonist
1 dryad militant
1 k grip
1 deluge
2 thoughtseize
2 slaughter games
1 jitte
1 hymn
2 pithing needle
1 rip

Jitte moved to the board to switch in md solas improves mircles/grixis at the expense of only the elves mu. Deluge and deed also swaped from board to main improves miracles and dnt at the expense of grixis/reanimator. -1 teeg +1 cannonist in the board to compensate for the uptick in storm.

Md streamlined changes-

mentor was good probably better if actively supported. He would have been equally as good as any combat walker in the instances he landed and took over the game in testing for the time being its slot will be witness but likely to be elspeth down the road.

Courser never did enough and almost always would have been better as rhino #4.

Skeptically nightmare will be replaced by meren moving forward as a concession to the hype despite its over performance.

Full commitment to the path plan despite intents ability to turor for either exile effect.

Volraths stronghold is so good in long games vs miracles when you have the ability to sac with phyrexian tower in response to exile and tuck effects. It really hurts initial mana sources not being a fetch. Im not sold either way yet.

Karakas is in the same boat as stronghold. Sometimes being able to intent for it is the difference between winning and losing alternatively sometimes not being a fetch or being a nonbasic white source is back breaking. Likely to be a fetch unless i expect a lot of reanimator and sneak and show last minute.

Intent is in competition with gsz #4 or truths #3 and still proving to be too flexible to ignore.

Take it or leave it.

Merry Christmas
Beware Santos the Christmas ninja my canadien friends

[rubblekill]

I know that this post does not add anything new to the table, but I just wanted to highlight the value Elspeth KE is able to provide.

http://i.imgur.com/D5OyaOT.jpg

Not only does she spawn tokens that can carry equipments or threaten an opposing JTMS, our Princess often wins the game on the spot in the late game with her second ability.

Side note: I'm currently trying a sideboard without Militant and Needle: needle is a nonbo with deeds, and it can easily be countered by a counterbalance (a card that is a 4 of in the deck we solely bring needles against, for JTMS); instead of needle I prefer to play Tsunami or Grip. Militant is nice but gives value only if dropped on the field T1-2, and against dredge or storm we don't have time or simply cannot do that. Extirpate/SE fill the void and do the job at instant speed, and can provide surprise blowouts for the opponent.

The deck: http://i.imgur.com/zdCzucS.jpg (Mires and Foothills would be Catacombs..)

My sb is of course meta oriented:

-2 Ethersworn Canonist (storm, elves)
-1 Council's Judgement (planeswalker decks that don't play wastelands)
-1 Garruk Primal Hunter (control mu)
-3 Duress (mainly for storm, but sometimes I board them in in other mu)
-1 Extirpate (lands, storm, dredge, p fire decks)
-2 Carpet of Flower (everything that run islands)
-1 Krosan Grip (sfm decks, sdt decks, omnitell, S&S)
-1 Tsunami (miracles and other slow blue control decks)
-2 Slaughter Games (storm, miracles)
-1 Engineered Plague (elves, goblins, pyromancer decks)

This is the most balanced sideboard I can have for a miracles/storm infested meta, in my humble opinion. I'm open to hear your opinions.

(I'm not missing rhino surprisingly, I'd really like to play at least 1 rhino just to have a body that can carry equipments AND have trample, but to be honest I cannot find space in the main).

[Echelon]

I've been playing this deck for roughly 7-8 hours straight yesterday and have only come across one instance where I wanted my Starved Rusalka until I topdecked a Swamp to cast Cabal Therapy and sac Vet Ex from there.

So... Rusalka is too cute. It's officially out. I replaced it with a Tasigur to add an extra trick with my Fierce Empath, but over several hours and multiple possibilities to do so later I opted for GSZ to Rhino every time. I'm keeping it in for a little while longer, since Tasigur in itself is never a bad topdeck and Vet Ex -> Diabolic Intent into Tasigur might be a thing too, especially if you need a relatively big body fast and you can't wait that extra turn to cast Rhino. Not giving up on it yet.

During the day I did come to the conclusion I want to turn my third basic Forest into a second Phyrexian Tower, making my manabase as greedy as possible. Tower propels you forward so incredibly fast, even if you "only" sacrifice DRS/Arbor to it that just made mana. Having 4/5 mana turn 2 is just nuts.

Oh, and I lived the dream yesterday - I cast a turn 2 Sigarda. Lol.

[Warden]

I am so biased towards a Nic Fit list that is sweeper-heavy and plays bigger things. The SFM lists inevitably fall victim to their own deeds/toxics.

@uncletiggy: "Intent is in competition with gsz #4 or truths #3 and still proving to be too flexible to ignore."
I'm actually curious about your rationale here. Has truths been that strong for you in the list you just posted? Likewise, has GSZ been lackluster? Picking your brain on this one.

[Bobmans]

I am so biased towards a Nic Fit list that is sweeper-heavy and plays bigger things. The SFM lists inevitably fall victim to their own deeds/toxics.

Ahh... the fear of selfdestruction. Don't. It is not so bad once you accept that blowing your own field puts you in a better spot. If it don't.. you're doing it wrong. Between Meren, E.Witness, Stronghold and Sun Titan you should be ok.

[uncletiggy]

@warden- truths has been absolutley great at reloading on spot removal and taking some of the pressure off deed to keep the board clean. My curve is a lot lower then traditional lists making me a little quicker out of the gate and less reliant on popping an explorer. Rhino with a stick in his mouth makes your opponents board largely irrelevant in fair matchups. The intent is stellar in sideboard games at finding trump cards or truths to gas back up after a wave of disrupting. Specifically tutoring up rip and the hymm out of the board in storm and gravebased matches. I wouldnt say that gsz has been lackluster as much as i would say i find myself holding on to it as long as possible and valueing it much less in the early stages of the game and often times more as answer and less of a threat until after ive already established some degree of control over the board. The three biggest matches i worry about are storm miracles and shardless coincidentally im looking to resolve a teeg in all these matches and intent still functions under a teeg. I'm not sure if ill have time to adequately test the 3/3/3 split before tales of adventure this weekend and will likely play this current configuration. Three each of the tutor draw and filter effects could prove to be correct for my play style moving forward. For now i still have some adjusting to do as this wave of changes are pretty drastic and have moved me away from playing diverse answers and threats to a much more focused rhino centered list. This direction removes a lot of the game one utility of playing intent and likely invalidates its inclusion especially if im moving towards meren and away from nightmare(which im still not sold is correct as i find exiling removal to be the real issue i hardly get my creatures countered)

Hope that sheds some light on my thought process. Im not claiming its correct but it suits me.

[Warden]

Ahh... the fear of selfdestruction. Don't. It is not so bad once you accept that blowing your own field puts you in a better spot. If it don't.. you're doing it wrong. Between Meren, E.Witness, Stronghold and Sun Titan you should be ok.

That was actually my experience a while back. I found SFM and Deed running into each other. Plus times my SFM and equipment couldn't seal the deal. This was before Rhino and Meren though...

@warden- truths has been absolutley great at reloading on spot removal and taking some of the pressure off deed to keep the board clean. My curve is a lot lower then traditional lists making me a little quicker out of the gate and less reliant on popping an explorer.

Reading lines like this makes me want to play some Nic Fit right away lol. Maybe it's the combination of your list + lower curve that makes truths strong. There is some magical component that makes that card over-the-top and I simply haven't had enough time to tinker to be able to figure it out.

Rhino with a stick in his mouth makes your opponents board largely irrelevant in fair matchups.

Yes! I guess the inner question I've been asking myself is "how does Nic Fit reach the boardstate you describe?" The last event I played, I found Rhino sans equipment > anything a fair deck can do. Multiple Rhinos > Goyfs and DRS. Rhino + SFM is just gravy. I need a way to realistically survive long enough to make SFM + Rhino happen. Redundancy is definitely part of my solution (ie: 3-4x Deed, Rhino, etc rather than 2x Rhino). During my most recent event, I made the mistake of going light on X-for-1 cards. I had way too much spot removal. I think I needed more board-clearing options. Perhaps the answer is in running Truths (to simply draw more things)? I'm hesitant on running SFM again because she stunk the last time I ran her. Doesn't add up with me thinking about running even more board sweepers.

The intent is stellar in sideboard games at finding trump cards or truths to gas back up after a wave of disrupting. Specifically tutoring up rip and the hymm out of the board in storm and gravebased matches. I wouldnt say that gsz has been lackluster as much as i would say i find myself holding on to it as long as possible and valueing it much less in the early stages of the game and often times more as answer and less of a threat until after ive already established some degree of control over the board. The three biggest matches i worry about are storm miracles and shardless coincidentally im looking to resolve a teeg in all these matches and intent still functions under a teeg.

Makes a whole lot of sense. I definitely agree with your thoughts on GSZ. There are more games than I want to admit where I could GSZ early but choose not to. Sometimes I get these double GSZ hands and cringe because I have nothing more...idk...substantial?

@Rhino-centered approach: I understand what you're saying. I think the BGx shell of Nic Fit is amazingly fun to play. It's definitely strong in the meta when played correctly (see: pilots other than me lol). Deep down inside, I want to run Jund-Fit with Rhino/Sigarda/Teeg as the white cards --- there's gotta be a way! (and I gotta thank others for helping advance the discussion of "wtf does 4C Nic Fit's mana look like?")

[uncletiggy]

4 color nicfit mana scares me even the light red splash makes my mana atrocious. I find myself deeding almost exclusively for x=2 which makes playing the swords a moot point im considering cutting the mystic actually for a stranglroot geist to be able zenith for a way to manage jaces. The swords are fine to naturally draw into and dont require the single mystic to justify their slot.

[sdematt]

I think there's no problem running loose Equipment. We used to do it back in the day for value, and it worked. However, I'd just run double Sword since, as you said, it survives most Deed activations unlike Jitte and gives you the most pressure (SoLaS). Again, it's just about what to cut. Or, just play some 70-card behemoth that you can barely shuffle ;)

[uncletiggy]

@echelon im in the mentality right now that living the dream consists of casting a painful truths vs dnt for 5...

[Echelon]

@echelon im in the mentality right now that living the dream consists of casting a painful truths vs dnt for 5...

That would be the complete and utter tits!

As for the "Intent becomes invalid when running Meren" - I disagree. If anything, Meren warrants a second Intent in the main 60. In my list, the only removal I run are 4 Cabal Therapy, 4 PtE & 3 Deeds and I do surprisingly well with it. Even with the lack of 1-off removal game 1, I wouldn't run the list without my 2 Intents. I most often use it to tutor up a PtE/Deed and otherwise a Siege Rhino or a Meren/Karador when my GY is filled (making Intents GSZ 5 & 6), which works just fine. Diabolic Intent and Meren are just amazing. Meren basically lets you ignore the "sacrifice a creature"-part (and actually rewards you for casting it), turning it into a straight up Demonic Tutor.

Look at Intent as this: As long as the card you want to get is more important than the creature you are sacrificing, it's completely fine to do so. Just don't ever, ever play it into a counter. Heck, a little while back I even Intented a Rhino into another Rhino post-combat b/c I could cast Rhino #2 and at EoT return Rhino #1 to the field with Meren, lol.

Also, sunday I learned Meren, Eternal Witness & Pernicious Deed are a pretty cool combination to get up and running. Oh, and Karador rocks, even if I need to pay 6 mana for it. Totally worth it.