I think I suggested stifle before anyone else, you can go back and check it. Unfortunately, the new shardless meta hasn't been favorable to the UG build, and I've taken another look at mono green. The use of wasteland is more of an issue of trying to build around, rather than attempt to play around the most powerful cards in a warped format. I just don't know if sequencing can make up for it in this deck. MUD would seem to be the model here, but has mostly fallen out of late.Originally Posted by MechTactical
And if you want to waste lands use stifle or trickbind like the rest of us
.
I played a 98% similar deck this weekend as well.
- Kazandu Refuge there's some matches where is seems crazy but a lot where it's cuttable/underwhelming. I've already cut them!
- The bant manabase is do-able, but it's one of the hardest to play, because it's basically 4 colors, <> is a color these days right?
- Pithing need is usually awesome, there are certain decks where is does nothing through.
- Glacial chasm is basically the "oh $&|%" card, you never really want to draw it. (Which makes a brainstorm build shine). It's there to fetch off of crop rotation or primeval titan. It purpose is to prevent you from taking 16+ from a price of progress or getting roflstomped by elves. Also remember they can activate deathrites with it in play.
- You want to make sure before you play oracle that you have your deck either A.) stacked with top or B.) have a land drop. After it resolves, the first thing you want to do is play that land so your opponent doesn't have a chance to respond.
I do miss show and tells, I was contemplating trying either Eureka or Nature Order. Each has it's upsides and downsides.
Best wishes you guys some candels under tree and no mulligans to new year !!
Hi everyone guys....recently I played against a lot of BUG decks....maybe it's me, maybe I forgot how to play, but it seems to me that this deck is unbeatable g1. It has a response for EACH card I have. Wasteland? ok, needle->decay. ok, trickbind->discarded with duress/hymn. Show and tell? Pierced/forced. And if S&T resolves, liliana sacs the big cow. If it starts with duress/hymn game is basically lost, without a draw engine it's hard to recover.
But also g2....in my sideboard I don't have a card that is an autowin against BUG. I want to avoid leyline of sanctity or obstinate baloth. The first one could be useful also against other decks, but I don't want to mulligan just to see it....the second one is useful only against bug; I'd like a sideboard that is the most optimized possible. Ugin is too slow, oblivion stone also and can be decayed.....I don't really find a card that is gold against this matchup. Any advice?
I really like this deck, I don't wanna leave it :(
Sometimes they get really good draws and have the answers sometimes they don't. Overall even dropping a primeval titan off show and tell should get you most of the way there. Ugin is really good against them though. If you resolve it they generally run maybe 1 pulse and the rest of their removal doesn't answer any of our large creatures, then again I run the gw version and generally do ok vs them
yes, I think gw build is better in this case. Ugin is great against them, like S&T, I only found hard to play them, having so weak responses to counter, discard and wasteland (some of them play surgical g2, so also crop rotation on cloudpost in response is dangeorous). Brainstorm and sensei help a lot, hiding good card in the library, but it was not enough. Maybe I had only bad luck ^^.
They are the force deck that is the tightest on blue cards so them having force early and often is unlikely when they are trying to hymn you, etc. Granted a mix of a wasteland or 2, plus hymn, plus force and a real threat is a rough start to beat. It's also not extremely common for them to continue to keep up the pace
A C/g build has very strong game against BUG. You have a lot more redundancy built in, so discard is much less effective. You force them to make tough choices between using Wasteland on Posts or on Mazes. Topdecking Ancient Stirrings digs deep enough to put you back in the game.
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I feel your pain brother. I’ve been losing to “Liliana” decks as well. Between thoughtseize, Hymn, Liliana and the occasional 2x waste into vindicate there’s just not enough breathing room to make decisive plays… So I’m trying a build with MB Spell Pierce in place of repeal. I’ve had limited success with it though.
I’ve been playing with EE for removal (with trinket) and I find that it is often not enough to destroy either their 1 cmc, 2 cmc or 0 cmc. Casting and activating the thing off trinket is rare, for example, you need 7 mana to cast and activate for x=2 (4 x<> + UU + G), in this case I could have cast all is dust for 7. Which brings me to trinket, it does some work, but it is clunky and I’m often in a position where I can’t cast the artifact that I’ve fetched anyway, giving my opponent information and the opportunity to discard it from my hand. I guess with the right timing, but sometimes the opponent is just too fast…
I’m really not sure, if EE saved me enough times to include it. What are your feelings regarding EE and what removal are you preferring these days for UG?
How are you beating “Liliana” decks?
What cards are you planning to run with the new kozilek?
I guess that Moment’s peace isn’t a bad choice, since we can get value after we discard it?
Is anyone playing on xmage? If you are, I’ll happily except a mirror challenge
@Booze
I’d like to run you’re list at some point, but I’m sure as hell not going to buy another three candelabras, so I’ll just try it online for fun.
My current take on the blue green list has worked out quite well so far. The high threat density of show and tell and dark depths allows me to finish quick games. Brainstorm, Top and zenith help smooth out mediocre hands. Been pretty OK so far.
4 Glimmerpost
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Vesuva
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thespian’s Stage
4 Cloudpost
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
3 Pithing Needle
4 Primeval Titan
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Platinum Emperion
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
I have moment's peace in my sideboard now, but I use it against infect or other decks that don't hit graveyard. Moment's peace against DTS loses a lot of its power....I feel your pain brother. I’ve been losing to “Liliana” decks as well. Between thoughtseize, Hymn, Liliana and the occasional 2x waste into vindicate there’s just not enough breathing room to make decisive plays… So I’m trying a build with MB Spell Pierce in place of repeal. I’ve had limited success with it though.
I’ve been playing with EE for removal (with trinket) and I find that it is often not enough to destroy either their 1 cmc, 2 cmc or 0 cmc. Casting and activating the thing off trinket is rare, for example, you need 7 mana to cast and activate for x=2 (4 x<> + UU + G), in this case I could have cast all is dust for 7. Which brings me to trinket, it does some work, but it is clunky and I’m often in a position where I can’t cast the artifact that I’ve fetched anyway, giving my opponent information and the opportunity to discard it from my hand. I guess with the right timing, but sometimes the opponent is just too fast…
I’m really not sure, if EE saved me enough times to include it. What are your feelings regarding EE and what removal are you preferring these days for UG?
How are you beating “Liliana” decks?
What cards are you planning to run with the new kozilek?
I guess that Moment’s peace isn’t a bad choice, since we can get value after we discard it?
Is anyone playing on xmage? If you are, I’ll happily except a mirror challenge
@Booze
I’d like to run you’re list at some point, but I’m sure as hell not going to buy another three candelabras, so I’ll just try it online for fun.
If anyone's interested, I will be streaming matches in the Cockatrice tournament I'm in. Set sail for fail! I don't usually stream so we'll see how this goes.
http://www.twitch.tv/zotmaster
EDIT: Round 1, 1-1 Draw versus Infect. If I had had one more turn I could have both decked and killed him with Nulamog. Unfortunately, we ran out of extra turns. A shame.
Round 2, Forfeit win over Death & Taxes after opponent DC'd. The road to 6-0-1 is real!
Round 3, 2-1 over Storm. Opponent accidentally played 2 lands and we both missed it, but it didn't matter as I had enough answers.
Round 4, 2-1 over Miracles. Derped hard Game 2, had a win and threw it away. Game 3, he bottomed an Ugin with Clique...drawing me another Ugin, who went all the way.
Round 5, 0-2 loss to Lands. Combo ate my face when he had Wasteland backup. One of the unfortunate parts of mono-green.
Round 6, 2-0 over iPainter. Absolutely no pressure from him whatsoever. Hard cast Ugin Game 1 under 3 moon effects, and Game 2 he also had no pressure, enabling me to take care of his Blood Moon at my leisure.
Round 7, Free win! I got paired down, and my opponent either thought, or knew, he wouldn't top 8 and gave me a freebie. Not gonna complain. Now we'll see if I crack the Top 8. I'll post my decklist when it's over.
Snuck right in at #8, bitches! Woot!
Round 8, 2-1 over Aggro Loam with Wishes and stuff. Interesting deck, but ultimately was just slow enough for me to beat him.
Round 9, Top 4, 0-2 loss to Omni. Punted pretty badly Game 2 in that I could have paid for a Spell Pierce, but he said he had another in hand so I would have still lost regardless. Still, I regret missing the play. Top 4 not bad though! I'll post a list later.
Here's the list:
ARTIFACT:
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
CREATURE:
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
INSTANT:
4 Crop Rotation
LAND:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
6 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
2 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Vesuva
1 Windswept Heath
PLANESWALKER:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SORCERY:
4 Ancient Stirrings
SIDEBOARD:
2 Dismember
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Surgical Extraction
I diversified the fetches just for those corner case Pithing Needle problems. Really, any three green fetches is fine if you only have, say, Misty.
I sideboard pretty organically, but I sort of remember how I boarded. In every single matchup, I brought in at least one Grip since most board-ins are artifacts or enchantments, and also to save me from the unexpected. Since most of the stuff in the sideboard was colored, I usually cut at least an Ancient Stirrings or two, often a Map or two, and the occasional Titan. Bog came out when graveyards didn't matter, Cavern came out when counterspells didn't matter, Tabernacle and Maze came out when creatures didn't matter. I kept Tabernacle in against Storm because in the first game he cast Empty the Warrens.
Against Infect I brought in Spheres, Grips and Dismembers.
Against DnT I brought in Grips and Dismembers.
Against Storm I brought in Spheres, one Grip, Surgicals and Mindbreaks.
Against Miracles I brought in Grips. I usually board out Crop Rotations against Miracles.
Against Lands it was Grips and Surgicals, and I just got owned anyway.
Against iPainter I brought in Grips and Dismembers.
Against Aggro Loam Whatever I brought in Grips and Dismembers.
Against Omni I brought in Spheres, Grips and Mindbreaks.
Last edited by Zotmaster; 12-27-2015 at 09:58 PM.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
good game with painter!!
Thanks! Unless they can kill you with bug bites early, they just don't pressure enough...especially since I was able to needle Jaya both games.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
I think our decks will change a lot thanks to the new set....
new sideboard card
I'm honestly not sold on the card. Anything is possible and it might be worth trying, but at least my initial reaction is that Dismember is much, much better. Never underestimate the difference between holding up one mana and holding up two, especially when one has to be colorless. For the most part, I like to hold up a green source at all times to make my opponent at least respect the possibility of a Crop Rotation or an activation of Sensei's Divining Top. Especially early on, holding up two mana can actually be somewhat prohibitive...or if you are holding up two, it is probably to activate Expedition Map. More importantly, Dismember pretty much guarantees any creature we'd ever care about, ever, stays dead and out of our lives forever with perhaps the singular exception of Mirran Crusader. The 4 life (let's face it, you might use Bojuka Bog as a black source once or twice in your time) spent to cast Dismember is usually not important because whatever you're killing will probably save you more life in the long run.
I think +3/-3 at 1C is asking a little too much.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
My fiance plays mud post, her and I are very excited for this card. It gives an early answer to a delver, a mentor or a young pyromancer all of which can go the distance in short order. At least with the new card the aggressive tempo decks aren't forcing us to pay 4 Life which can in the end really matter if we are low on life or in the beginning a daze/force doesn't essentially 2 for 1 us. I'm referring to not only are we losing our spell but taking an entire turn off their clock. It seems perfectly fine to me. I would run it if I felt like I needed the early answer for aggro, or wanted to make a Kozilek hit for 15 instead of 12.I think our decks will change a lot thanks to the new set....
new sideboard card
Did some more streaming today, playing the decklist I linked above. Went 5-1 in my six matches, beating 4C Delver, Burn, Death and Taxes, Esper Mentor, and Lands(!). My single loss...was to U/G 12-Post, in what was easily one of the craziest, most entertaining matches I've ever played. The Lands matchup was won mostly on double Pithing Needle Game 1 and what I think were some pretty questionable keeps by him. Regardless, I'm not going to complain. The list I posted honestly feels very solid. The sideboard can probably be tweaked slightly based on meta, and it still has bad Game 1 matchups against things like Omni and Storm, but it is solid against some of the fair decks that U/G doesn't handle quite as well. I won't mercilessly whore my stream on here, especially since I don't know exactly how often I'm going to stream.
But if you ever want to watch, and maybe learn a bit - or laugh at misplays - check me out at http://www.twitch.tv/zotmaster . Hope to see you there and hope to continue developing and having fun with the deck!
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
All these new cards deserve a lot of testing.....also this:
makes me want to test splash with red, with bonfire of the damned, like rock's old list.
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